The 'Grand' National?

I think Channel 4 do a pretty good job - and they don't shy away from reporting on horse deaths/injuries. I do agree that they could do away with the immediate interviews, they don't add much and the interviewer is in everyone's way.

I hope Balthazar King recovers quickly along with anyone else horse or human who was hurt. I think Aintree have done a pretty good job welfare wise, they had loads of people ready to help and the cooling area worked well. I wouldn't like to comment on Many Clouds state, he did look quite bad at the time but if that's how he normally is at the end of races...

I was very pleased to see Many Clouds win, he's a lovely horse and the trainer certainly deserves it. The owner always comes across as a nice bloke too. Also very impressed with Ruby Walsh helping with waving the runners round the Canal Turn on the second circuit, definitely a generous act on his part.
 
Just thinking about Balthazar King I hope he's doing ok broken ribs are very nasty if your a human it must be very painful for a horse ,at least horses don't laugh.
 
Hopefully lessons will have been learned (that old chestnut) about dealing with a distressed horse after a big televised race. The cooling down facilities looked ace, as long as the horse survived long enough to reach them.

Personally I would much rather that winning and placed horses bypass the walk to the winners enclosure altogether, and are instead taken straight off to be cooled down. The sight of various shrieking non horsey idiots jumping up and down in close proximity to a hot knackered horse are not edifying.

Let the humans do the celebrating instead.

Apart from the Many Clouds blip, I liked the C4 coverage.
 
Not watched all the coverage as was at the yard but watched the re run.
i didn't feel all the coverage of MC afterwards was upsetting or over the top i was pleased they showed it as they were updating us on his welfare rather than just saying he was fine.
Hope BK recovers looked like it was the being hit that caused it as that was some force.
also nice to see the coverage of the previous winners in their parade.
Gok and his multiple fashion slots is pretty annoying though if you're going to show him would rather just have a five or ten minute slot.
would have been nice to see more of the GN horses going to post too.
 
I'm really quite shocked to read so many comments on this thread condoning a horse overheating simply because 'that's what it does often'. That doesn't make it acceptable. If that horse has an issue with overheating then IMO it should not be racing in the National for starters..
 
amymay said:
Yes, that's why the loose horses continue to jump....
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To be fair Amymay, they wouldn't complete 4.5 miles though, would they? Loose horses may jump a few but they normally give up quite quickly.

Agree with you Moomin. If an eventer had a horse that did that at the end of every cross country, the horse would be retired to a less stressful job, surely?
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
Agree that the girl interviewing was totally anal............. WHY why why FFS wasn't Clare Balding doing the honours? She was covering the Boat Race; and one couldn't help but highly suspect that she'd far rather have been somewhere else....
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Clare Balding CHOSE to cover the Boat Race over the National meeting. She's fairly freelance these days so picks and chooses what she wants to do. Given her interest in women in sport, the fact that the Boat race made history today is partly why she probably chose that over Aintree.
 
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Moomin1 said:
I'm really quite shocked to read so many comments on this thread condoning a horse overheating simply because 'that's what it does often'. That doesn't make it acceptable. If that horse has an issue with overheating then IMO it should not be racing in the National for starters..
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I agree with this to an extent. I have dealt with wobbly horses and it is not fun in any way shape or form! Personally I would weigh up the weather, ground conditions (they really do make a huge difference!), the wash down and facilities for after race care before I would let my horse out on the track if I knew it was capable of over heating. With what they had at the end of the National I would have no qualms about running my horse but I would make damned sure I was down there doing everything possible to help the horse. I am one who wouldn't run a horse on a baking hot day in a long distance race (3m+)
 
EKW said:
I agree with this to an extent. I have dealt with wobbly horses and it is not fun in any way shape or form! Personally I would weigh up the weather, ground conditions (they really do make a huge difference!), the wash down and facilities for after race care before I would let my horse out on the track if I knew it was capable of over heating. With what they had at the end of the National I would have no qualms about running my horse but I would make damned sure I was down there doing everything possible to help the horse. I am one who wouldn't run a horse on a baking hot day in a long distance race (3m+)
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The way I view it is, if Joe Bloggs from the local livery yard brought their horse back from a hack/xc/fun ride in that state, would that be acceptable? Or would everyone be up in arms about it? I think the latter would be more likely.
 
Moomin1 said:
The way I view it is, if Joe Bloggs from the local livery yard brought their horse back from a hack/xc/fun ride in that state, would that be acceptable? Or would everyone be up in arms about it? I think the latter would be more likely.
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Playing devil's advocate, Joe Bloggs wouldn't have access to the veterinary care and set up that was at Aintree today...

I get your point though and it's an interesting one to discuss. Throw in the weather, coat change, weight (4lbs heavier than any of his 2014 runs)...

Agree about the interview getting in the way though. Media's a funny one. For all we know, Alice had an editor yacking in her ear to keep it going whilst she may have wanted to get out the way.
 
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teapot said:
Playing devil's advocate, Joe Bloggs wouldn't have access to the veterinary care and set up that was at Aintree today...

I get your point though and it's an interesting one to discuss. Throw in the weather, coat change, weight (4lbs heavier than any of his 2014 runs)...

Agree about the interview getting in the way though. Media's a funny one though. For all we know, Alice had an editor yacking in her ear to keep it going whilst she may have wanted to get out the way.
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IMO it matters not what set up you've got - it's not acceptable to allow a horse to become overheated to that extent. It's a little like saying it's ok to starve your dog so long as you step in and feed it up again once it becomes emaciated.
 
Whatever happened today there would be people on here complaining about it.....how about the fact that all the horses are ok with one exception who was injured in a freak accident and probably will be ok. There were very few fallers and a lot of horses finishing. It will be the end of the race if it is tampered with anymore, as it is it's becoming a lot of hype over a staying handicap chase, without the sense of history today would have just been another saturday jump meeting.
 
Princess16 said:
What a stupid comment ! What else is the horse going to do? He is just following the rest not because he enjoys jumping !
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Er ... Nope. There are plenty of run-out lanes for the horse to take if he/she wishes to. They jump because they're bred to do so.

Have you ever tried to make a horse do something he/she doesn't want to do? If you read the threads on this forum, you'll realise it happens rather a lot ;)

Maybe, before you call someone's view 'stupid' in future, you'll have the humility to honestly look at your own knowledge and understanding of the situation before you judge someone else's.
 
The Many Clouds team seemed to be quite casual in their throw-away remarks after the race, as he was staggering about, that it was 'normal' for him to do this.

I question why the racecourse vets who must have dealt with him on previous occasions, did not either suggest retiring him or having special and immediate post race cooling treatment for him lined up if he ever ran again.

This was oh so nearly a very public fatality whilst the pundits yakked on, seemingly oblivious to a very distressed horse.
 
bonny said:
Whatever happened today there would be people on here complaining about it.....how about the fact that all the horses are ok with one exception who was injured in a freak accident and probably will be ok. There were very few fallers and a lot of horses finishing. It will be the end of the race if it is tampered with anymore, as it is it's becoming a lot of hype over a staying handicap chase, without the sense of history today would have just been another saturday jump meeting.
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Who actually cares if it means that animal welfare is improved?

Then again, I suppose there are those out there who don't care about animal welfare, so long as 'history' is preserved for the sake of human enjoyment.
 
Moomin1 said:
Who actually cares if it means that animal welfare is improved?

Then again, I suppose there are those out there who don't care about animal welfare, so long as 'history' is preserved for the sake of human enjoyment.
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I was asking what is the point of just looking for things to complain about....all the horses are ok, is that not what matters ?
 
bonny said:
I was asking what is the point of just looking for things to complain about....all the horses are ok, is that not what matters ?
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No. It is fantastic that all of the horses lived, however not all horses were ok by any means. I accept that accidents will happen in any discipline, however I don't accept that a horse who purportedly 'normally overheats' at the end of races, is still racing, particularly in the National of all races. Even worse the fact that they know this already, yet they didn't appear to take immediate measures to try and prevent it happening as soon as the race was over.
 
Mrs B said:
Er ... Nope. There are plenty of run-out lanes for the horse to take if he/she wishes to. They jump because they're bred to do so.

Have you ever tried to make a horse do something he/she doesn't want to do? If you read the threads on this forum, you'll realise it happens rather a lot ;)

Maybe, before you call someone's view 'stupid' in future, you'll have the humility to honestly look at your own knowledge and understanding of the situation before you judge someone else's.
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We are all entitled to an opinion and I don't care what you say I think this particular race is cruel.
 
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Moomin1 said:
No. It is fantastic that all of the horses lived, however not all horses were ok by any means. I accept that accidents will happen in any discipline, however I don't accept that a horse who purportedly 'normally overheats' at the end of races, is still racing, particularly in the National of all races. Even worse the fact that they know this already, yet they didn't appear to take immediate measures to try and prevent it happening as soon as the race was over.
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A few of the horses, including the winner overheated at the end.....within minutes they were all fine, it's a one off race that comes at the end of the season after which the horses will go out to grass for the summer. I thought todays winner was brilliant, he carried a lot of weight, jumped perfectly and has had a great season. Why not celebrate his achievement instead of just looking for things to moan about ?
 
Princess16 said:
We are all entitled to an opinion and I don't care what you say I think this particular race is cruel.
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Do you think Badminton is cruel too? Or high goal polo?

Moomin, I really understand your viewpoint and a horse to get to that level of overheating race after race, well something's been missed somewhere. Sadly that comes down to welfare at the higher levels, but I've seen horses finish Badminton far worse than Many Clouds, so if it changes in one sport, it has to change in another imho.
 
Moomin1 said:
No. It is fantastic that all of the horses lived, however not all horses were ok by any means. I accept that accidents will happen in any discipline, however I don't accept that a horse who purportedly 'normally overheats' at the end of races, is still racing, particularly in the National of all races. Even worse the fact that they know this already, yet they didn't appear to take immediate measures to try and prevent it happening as soon as the race was over.
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They got water on the horse as soon as they possibly could. Yes the jockey should have got off quicker but the pull up/collecting point has more water than the River Thames just waiting to be launched over horses and that's before they get back to the official wash down areas.

We have 2 horses that are known to over heat in the yard - ironically both bought out of Oli Sherwood's yard last year! We know what they do, we send 2 people out to bring the horse back in, buckets in hand, the boss is told to get buckets if needs be too. The Owners are the ones who have the final say whether to run the horse or not - as shown today by Sherwood not wanting to run Many Clouds but Hemmings insisting that he did. The owners are the ones who are weighing up the pro's and con's as to whether they run the horse or retire it.
 
bonny said:
A few of the horses, including the winner overheated at the end.....within minutes they were all fine, it's a one off race that comes at the end of the season after which the horses will go out to grass for the summer. I thought todays winner was brilliant, he carried a lot of weight, jumped perfectly and has had a great season. Why not celebrate his achievement instead of just looking for things to moan about ?
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I don't care that he jumped perfectly and has had a great season. That's irrelevant to his welfare. The bare bone facts are that this horse was pushed to the limits and it was a sorry sight to see him staggering about overheating at the end. The fact that other horses overheated does not negate the concerns that should be raised, it in fact strengthens the argument. If a horse was ridden to the point where it overheated and was staggering all over the place at a local show, then it would be taken very seriously and probably end up with a visit from a welfare officer.
 
Moomin1 said:
I don't care that he jumped perfectly and has had a great season. That's irrelevant to his welfare. The bare bone facts are that this horse was pushed to the limits and it was a sorry sight to see him staggering about overheating at the end. The fact that other horses overheated does not negate the concerns that should be raised, it in fact strengthens the argument. If a horse was ridden to the point where it overheated and was staggering all over the place at a local show, then it would be taken very seriously and probably end up with a visit from a welfare officer.
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Maybe we should just retire every horse and keep them in neat paddocks with post and rail fences and just pat them everyday.....
 
bonny said:
Maybe we should just retire every horse and keep them in neat paddocks with post and rail fences and just pat them everyday.....
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Or maybe we should just make sure we don't flog them to the point of overheating and then say it's acceptable because 'that's what that horse does'?
 
Moomin1 said:
Or maybe we should just make sure we don't flog them to the point of overheating and then say it's acceptable because 'that's what that horse does'?
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Moomin, I agree with most of what you're saying, however can't help but wonder if the 'that's what he does' comment was made to try and reassure people - it was a hot day, it's a tiring race and I haven't seen the runners come in looking so tired in a long time.
it was distressing to see, and if it is a regular thing then something does need to be looked into as why the horse is overheating to that extent - puffing, panting and sweating is one thing but when your horse looks about to collapse and is being pushed and pulled along by stable lads and lasses it does raise questions.

It just shows Many Clouds is a very honest, genuine horse who pushes himself to his absolute limits - and I hope he gets a good long rest after a well deserved win.

Very glad to hear all horse and riders got back safe, Balthazar King's fall made me gasp and I was fearing the worst when they bypassed the fence. I thought it was also nice that they mentioned that Ruby Walsh had stayed with the horse (even though he wasn't his horse) and was helping on the ground.

I did miss Clare Balding on the coverage, however overall I was impressed with it. Loved the race playback in slow mo however I wished they'd been more accurate when pointing out/circling horses!

I also love the jockey cam - couldn't stop laughing when I saw the footage from another race where Aidan Coleman (I think it was?) fell and landed in the middle of the fence.
 
HashRouge said:
I really hate the way they try to interview the jockey/ trainer etc literally the second the race is over. They are never good interviews anyway - the jockey is always distracted and exhausted and the trainer and other connections are always being interrupted by people they know congratulating them. I wish the TV crews would just leave them be for a bit, let them enjoy the moment, get themselves together, then do the interview when they are ready. Maybe the jockey would have got off the horse sooner if he hadn't been distracted by the pointless interview. That said, I did really like the fact that channel 4 were really concerned with showing us how the horses were and I really liked the fact that we got to see Many Clouds once he was back to himself, and that they kept updating us on Balthazar King. I'm sure a few years back they never used to do that.

I swear I heard someone telling Aspell that he might need to get off the horse, just as Alice Plunkett started her interview. Unfortunately, I'm not sure he heard, given the distraction!
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I don't like the immediate interviews either, it must spoil the moment a bit for the jocks and probably irritates some horses who just want to get on back to the paddock. Surprised there's not more swearing and I'm sure someone's going to get kicked or flattened eventually.

I like how they keep us informed and showed how Many Clouds was ok. Missed Clair but she's not immune to making a balls up, remember poor Liam and his teeth?
 
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