The 'Grand' National?

This wringing of the hands of the anti racing brigade really annoys me, meanwhile sat in a shed are hundreds of licensed breeding bitches who never get to go for a walk and are bred back to back but that is ok because they are licensed and the general public dont get to see that side of it.

The racehorses are treated like royalty and Im sure after this GN everything will be done to make sure it doesnt happen again, it was a very hot day at Aintree which contributed to Many Clouds stagger. I remember a few years back a horse called Combs Ditch trained by David Elsworth I believe who often had oxygen after his races. It is very rare and because of that I dont think its worthy of all these adverse comments.
 
AdorableAlice said:
Perhaps we could spare a thought for Robbie McNamara.

It is very evident the vast majority of comments have come from people who have little or no understanding of the production and care of a racehorse or other equine disciplines that take the horse near to the limit.

The immediate interviews need to stop. The racecourses and the vets provide a professional service to the care of the horses, regardless of the level of racing. The vets present on course are specialists in their field.

The welfare soapbox would be far better used for the thousands of horses living in despair across the world now.
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Well said. Apparently Robbie McNamara's op went without complication but the full extent of the damage is not yet known.
On another sad note Balder Success has been lost to the shoulder injury sustained in the Melling Chase, my thoughts go out to his connections. Sad loss of a super horse.
 
fburton said:
Conversely, if they truly loved to jump why would you need jockeys at all? You'd just point the horses at some jumps and leave them to get on with it. Even with training, I can't see this happening, can you? They might jump a couple of fences, but a whole course?
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But our equine sports are about the partnership between horse and human, surely it is a team thing?
 
Dobiegirl said:
This wringing of the hands of the anti racing brigade really annoys me, meanwhile sat in a shed are hundreds of licensed breeding bitches who never get to go for a walk and are bred back to back but that is ok because they are licensed and the general public dont get to see that side of it.

The racehorses are treated like royalty
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I'm not hard-core anti-racing, but I do disagree with the GN and how hard it is on the horses. Yeah, it's hard for the jockeys too, but they have a choice, don't they?

Just because there's cruelty going on elsewhere it doesn't mean that this is less important. You'll always be able to find something more cruel and more barbaric that what you can currently see; does that mean that we should turn a blind eye to the 'less important' forms of abuse?

And, racehorses are not treated like royalty. Not from a horse's POV, anyway. It's all well and good having flash stables and an immaculate yard, but do you think they give a rat's butt about that?
 
The Grand National isn't any different to Badminton or Burgley (or however it is spelt!) In a way. At both horses go over massive big fences for a long distance.

That's where the similarites end. Racing - licenced trainers & jockeys. Eventing - and Tom, Richard or Harry can do it. Racing - the Ground at Aintree will have been superbly well looked after. Eventing - time after time you see the take offs are just mud patches from years of take offs and landings. Racing - 1.5 hours from start to finish (1/2hour paddock walk, 5 mins walk/trot/canter to start, 8-9min race, 1/2-3/4 hour walking cool down then back in the box. Eventing - god knows how long to warm up, jump practive fences, exhaust your horse so you can actually stay in some form of control, do your round, cool.down - 3 days in a row! Racing -horses are seen on tv to have given their all and be ******ed. Eventing - not televised, the general.public don't have a clue whats going on, no one knows about it.

Etc ...

To those who do not like the Grand National therefore, in theory will despise 3 Day Eventing even more!
 
SpringArising said:
I really do. I think something needs to change, in both the GN and for eventing.
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The GN has changed almost beyond all recognition in the last 20 years, perhaps the next step is to remove all the fences and shorten it to a mile. Eventing has also changed, no roads and tracks, no steeplechase phase. This is all getting too silly.
 
justabob said:
The GN has changed almost beyond all recognition in the last 20 years
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So what?

perhaps the next step is to remove all the fences and shorten it to a mile. This is all getting too silly.
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Or, we could shorten the race/reduce the amount of jumps/lower the height of the fences/further limit the number of horses who are allowed to run?

I'll never be one of these people who cares more about a daft tradition than the welfare of animals. To be honest I couldn't care less if we removed all the jumps or shortened the race to a mile. Is one race really that important to you?
 
ozpoz said:
But our equine sports are about the partnership between horse and human, surely it is a team thing?
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One couldn't perform to full potential without the other, that is true. It that sense it is a partnership / team effort. Nevertheless, in racing and other equestrian sports, the rider is taking advantage of the horse's natural instincts to run with the herd and to the training based on that, not the enjoyment of the running which may be less for some horses than for others.
 
3Beasties said:
It wasn't a hot day yesterday. My sister was there and she was freezing all day due to the cold wind.
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I guess people see the over heating part and the fact that the sun was out and assumed it was hot. Ballabrig's year was hot! It's kinda the same as a car over heating in the middle of winter - you don't expect it but it does happen!
 
AdorableAlice said:
Do you have any experience within elite horse sport.
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I don't need experience in any level of horse sport to know that exercising a horse to the point of over heating and staggering about is not right. And that goes for whatever discipline they may be competing in, not just racing.

I will never quite understand this argument that a few seem to use on this forum, that unless you have experience in an area you cannot make a judgement with regard the welfare of the animals involved.
 
I've not watched the GN so really cannot comment on how they were treated, however each groom and team will know there own horse and how to deal with it. They will know how to cool the horse down as fast as possible. ( ice water and scraped off keep repeating, walking and offer water)

Yes it's not nice for an outside to see an horse overheated but they do recovery and they are as fit as possible.
 
As one of the know nothing hand wringers who has no right to comment (never having ridden in the GN) I enjoy watching eventing, and have no doubt that if a horse were hit repeatedly from the last fence to the finish line and then collapsed, there would be an absolute outcry.
 
siennamum said:
As one of the know nothing hand wringers who has no right to comment (never having ridden in the GN) I enjoy watching eventing, and have no doubt that if a horse were hit repeatedly from the last fence to the finish line and then collapsed, there would be an absolute outcry.
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He didn't collapse and he was instantly taken care of by vets and a tema of grooms to cool him down before he was taken to the winners enclosure 30 minutes or so later..and this morning it was reported he was looking and feeling good.
 
siennamum said:
As one of the know nothing hand wringers who has no right to comment (never having ridden in the GN) I enjoy watching eventing, and have no doubt that if a horse were hit repeatedly from the last fence to the finish line and then collapsed, there would be an absolute outcry.
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He also wasn't hit repeatedly. Jockeys can only use the stick 2 or 3 times from the last to home - which is a long way at Aintree!
 
justabob said:
The GN has changed almost beyond all recognition in the last 20 years, perhaps the next step is to remove all the fences and shorten it to a mile. Eventing has also changed, no roads and tracks, no steeplechase phase. This is all getting too silly.
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No I don't think it's silly its working to improve things for the horses the GN is less punishing than it was and stopping the possibility of things like the horses rolling into the ditch on the back of beechers is a good thing , on eventing changes to the format and improving veterinary knowledge is leading to horses lasting longer and that's a good thing .
 
Dobiegirl said:
This wringing of the hands of the anti racing brigade really annoys me, meanwhile sat in a shed are hundreds of licensed breeding bitches who never get to go for a walk and are bred back to back but that is ok because they are licensed and the general public dont get to see that side of it.
.
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Interesting how you assume that us 'hand ringers' (as you put it) are not against other forms of cruelty!! Can you tell me, how offering examples of other forms of animal welfare issues, would make our point any less valid! Have you seen the clip, doing the rounds on Faceache at the moment, of the mother (using the the very loosely here) who pours hot sauce down her son's throat, and then sticks him under a cold shower as a punishment? Am I to assume, using your rational, that you believe everyone should turn a blind eye because there are worse forms of child abuse in the world?
 
EKW said:
The Grand National isn't any different to Badminton or Burgley (or however it is spelt!) In a way. At both horses go over massive big fences for a long distance.

That's where the similarites end. Racing - licenced trainers & jockeys. Eventing - and Tom, Richard or Harry can do it. Racing - the Ground at Aintree will have been superbly well looked after. Eventing - time after time you see the take offs are just mud patches from years of take offs and landings. Racing - 1.5 hours from start to finish (1/2hour paddock walk, 5 mins walk/trot/canter to start, 8-9min race, 1/2-3/4 hour walking cool down then back in the box. Eventing - god knows how long to warm up, jump practive fences, exhaust your horse so you can actually stay in some form of control, do your round, cool.down - 3 days in a row! Racing -horses are seen on tv to have given their all and be ******ed. Eventing - not televised, the general.public don't have a clue whats going on, no one knows about it.

Etc ...

To those who do not like the Grand National therefore, in theory will despise 3 Day Eventing even more!
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I'm not really interest in the welfare argument going on about the race, but I do feel compelled to correct the inaccuracies in this post, EKW, sorry.

Tom, Dick or Harriet can only ride of both they and the horse have worked their way up through the grades gaining enough clears to qualify to compete at a higher level.

Four star event take offs are never patches of mud. They are not bare of grass because of over use, they are bare of grass because they are an artificially drained especially created surface for the job.

In eventing, the horse is on its own. It is not racing other horses and the chances of it not noticing that it is over stretching itself are likely to be lower.

In eventing, the rider knows the horse intimately and has been responsible for the day to day training of the horse. They know exactly what feels normal for that horse and what does not, reducing the chance of death and injury.

In eventing, the reputation of the rider would be shot to pieces if a horse died of exhaustion, not so a jockey.

In eventing, the horse is not galloping flat out into fences, each jump is more controlled, less likely to cause a fall, and less likely to kill the horse if a fall occurs. The slower speed also allows the horse to duck out if it knows it is wrong rather than crash on regardless.

In racing, first past the post wins. In eventing, after the most strenuous part, the cross country, the horse has to show jump the next day in order to win, and therefore can't be pushed to its limits on the cross country.

Top level eventing is televised, which is how I know that in eventing, the rider is off the horse, and the first iced water is on the horse within seconds of crossing the finish line.

These factors probably influence why the staying chases kill and injure so many more horses than top flight eventing with a cross country of a similar distance and number of obstacles.

I'm not sure the two can reasonably be compared, sorry.
 
SpringArising said:
So what?



Or, we could shorten the race/reduce the amount of jumps/lower the height of the fences/further limit the number of horses who are allowed to run?

I'll never be one of these people who cares more about a daft tradition than the welfare of animals. To be honest I couldn't care less if we removed all the jumps or shortened the race to a mile. Is one race really that important to you?
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Why don't we stop riding our horses on the roads for fear they get killed? Only canter them on all weather arenas for fear they put a foot down a rabbit hole? Stop turning them out in company as there's a fair chance they'll get kicked? Hell, let's keep them stabled 24/7 for their own safety!! I mean really 'remove all the jumps and shorten the race to a mile'???!! Have I stumbled onto the PETA forum in error????
 
15 horses were killed on UK racecourses throughout March.

4 have been killed or destroyed as a result of their injuries in the last seven days.

It is unknown weather BK will recover from his broken ribs.

How many other injuries in lesser races do we not hear of? How many horses are quietly destroyed when it becomes clear they will not become sound again, or their recovery not economically viable, and never make the statistics?

I don't know of any other 'sport' in the UK with that level of fatalities.

Unjustifiable.
 
sasquatch said:
it was the 'can I get up yet?' 'NO' and the 'I'll grab a horse, hey, that's my horse!' that cracked me up, great bit of footage and it was nice to see the horse get a big pat and a bit of reassurance as well.

I actually really like the jockeycam/hatcam footage, I find it interesting to see it from the riders point of view - although I wonder what sort of camera they use
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Wish I'd seen that, sounds hilarious!!
 
minesadouble said:
Why don't we stop riding our horses on the roads for fear they get killed? Only canter them on all weather arenas for fear they put a foot down a rabbit hole? Stop turning them out in company as there's a fair chance they'll get kicked? Hell, let's keep them stabled 24/7 for their own safety!! I mean really 'remove all the jumps and shorten the race to a mile'???!! Have I stumbled onto the PETA forum in error????
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Wow. Do you really think that a plod around the village is more dangerous than galloping at break-neck speed across four miles, over thirty jumps? Also, fear is different from fact. It's a FACT that horses will be hurt or killed in every Grand National. It's not a fact that horses will be hurt or killed during every hack.

Btw, please read properly next time. I said I couldn't care less if they removed all the jumps or shortened the race to a mile. I didn't say that's what they should do.
 
I've tried not to comment on this thread but hey ho! I am a NH fan and do go to the National meeting. Its not nice when horses are injured or sadly die and I dont think anybody connected/involved in racing wish for this to happen. Most of these horses are much loved and well cared for. Yes there will be a small minority who won't be so scrupulous but unfortunately I guess that's the same in all aspects of the equine world. I guess there will always be room for improvement re the horses welfare and I agree that more does need to be done for those horses that dont make the grade and after retirement. However to be completely sure that we don't abuse horses then perhaps we shouldn't ride or keep them at all!!!
 
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