The HHO LGV (HGV) Info clinic

popsdosh said:
Vosa are starting to take a view that if there is prize money involved it then becomes commercial use and will take you out of private use,so CPC and tacho would be required its a very grey area with horse sport and prize money and sponsorship.
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No they are not - its a myth

Commercial is to make or intend to make a profit and that fact remains
 
ThomasandTia said:
No tachograph needed for personal use providing you are transporting your own goods in this case horses
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This is where the grey areas appear as if you are winning prize money this then moves you into commercial use. You may feel this is wrong( as I do) but it is an interpretation VOSA are using to justify their actions because then you can add operator licences. You can get away with a tacho exemption if not travelling to far from your base but the others still apply. One large county show last season they pulled over lorries displaying winning rossettes(Everyone puts them in the windscreen) and then questioned the occupants about the prize money they had won. Sometimes they appear to have nothing better to do!!!!
 
ROG said:
No they are not - its a myth

Commercial is to make or intend to make a profit and that fact remains
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Like I say a grey area between covering cost and gaining which depends on level of prize money. Its not so much they are prosecuting people but they are targeting shows where they know the Prize money is higher than normal and then questioning people carefully to establish the facts. Issuing fixed penalty tickets has not made VOSA many friends as when they issue them most people will not be faffed with fighting the legal margins.
 
popsdosh said:
This is where the grey areas appear as if you are winning prize money this then moves you into commercial use. You may feel this is wrong( as I do) but it is an interpretation VOSA are using to justify their actions because then you can add operator licences. You can get away with a tacho exemption if not travelling to far from your base but the others still apply. One large county show last season they pulled over lorries displaying winning rossettes(Everyone puts them in the windscreen) and then questioned the occupants about the prize money they had won. Sometimes they appear to have nothing better to do!!!!
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If you believe you are correct then produce your evidence otherwise please make it clear that this is your own personal belief and not a fact

FACT - to win prize money and rossettes etc is NOT a commercial enterprise
http://www.vosa.gov.uk/guide-for-horsebox-owners = see case study #1 on page 8
 
As I said its a question of interpretation as later on in that document under CPCs it says minimal prize money without stating a limit.
 
popsdosh said:
As I said its a question of interpretation as later on in that document under CPCs it says minimal prize money without stating a limit.
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The ultimate legal definition is the word commercial

Commercial is the making or intending to make a profit

Those winning prize money during amateur events are never going to be making a profit and have no intention to do so
 
ROG said:
The ultimate legal definition is the word commercial

Commercial is the making or intending to make a profit

Those winning prize money during amateur events are never going to be making a profit and have no intention to do so
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So what is your roadside test? When stopped because some of the riders are taking part in competition with professional riders ,that is why VOSA appear to be picking on higher profile events.
It could be said that if you are lucky enough to win a large cash prize you will fall foul of the law because although you had no intention of making a profit you inadvertently had which would then deem you commercial.
 
popsdosh said:
So what is your roadside test? When stopped because some of the riders are taking part in competition with professional riders ,that is why VOSA appear to be picking on higher profile events.
It could be said that if you are lucky enough to win a large cash prize you will fall foul of the law because although you had no intention of making a profit you inadvertently had which would then deem you commercial.
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No amateur will ever make a profit from prize money - that is fact

If you have multiple horses in it and one of them is taking part in a professional commercial competition then it comes under full regs for tacho O licence and dcpc because that one horse is taking part in a commercial enterprise/business
 
When did the legislation change? If they are your own horses and not a 3rd party ie for hire or reward Then tachograph and dcpc do not come into the equation
The key term is hire and reward
 
ThomasandTia said:
When did the legislation change? If they are your own horses and not a 3rd party ie for hire or reward Then tachograph and dcpc do not come into the equation
The key term is hire and reward
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Hire and reward is not used it is whether it is a commercial use! Competing for prize money may put you into this category,displaying sponsorship definitely will!
 
popsdosh said:
Hire and reward is not used it is whether it is a commercial use! Competing for prize money may put you into this category,displaying sponsorship definitely will!
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Professional prize money is different from amateur prize money

Advertising for a business is commercial use of a vehicle
 
No body has displayed sponsorship my personal lorry has an old sponsor details on that does not put me under eu laws nor does it if I win money at a local show if I an winning money as part of a business ie horse racing etc that is a different ball game
20 years a class 1 driver
6 years a national cpc holder experience tells me this
 
Hi ROG

Hoping to book myself in for the HGV test in the next few months.
Do you have any recommendations for a company that does an all inclusive package, 3/5 day driving, theory, etc, all in one go and has a high pass rate!

I'm based in St Albans, Hertfordshire. Have car and willing to travel if the people are nice.
 
Bigbenji said:
Hi ROG

Hoping to book myself in for the HGV test in the next few months.
Do you have any recommendations for a company that does an all inclusive package, 3/5 day driving, theory, etc, all in one go and has a high pass rate!

I'm based in St Albans, Hertfordshire. Have car and willing to travel if the people are nice.
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Best place for that is the newbies forum on the trucknetuk site

Been LGV not HGV since 1991 - are you looking to do LGV C or C1 ?
 
ROG, can you clarify this for me please:

"Those who are under age 21 and wish to drive a PRIVATE LGV OVER 7.5 tonnes GVW on the public highway AFTER passing the LGV C test WILL need to take and pass the INITIAL LGV DCPC"

Daughter is 18 and is undertaking training for her C1 test in order to be able to drive our 7.5 tonne horsebox (private use). Can you confirm that she DOESN'T need to pass her Initial CPC once she has passed her C1 in order to drive our lorry. (Lady at the training centre thinks she does have to take her Initial CPC). From what you say, she would only need CPC IF our lorry was over 7.5 tonne (which it is not).

To prove she needs the CPC we have been given a photocopied page from an unknown publication which states:

"The minimum age for driving vehicles in category C (and their sub-categories) is reduced to 18 where the person driving
- has a Driver CPC qualification authorising the driving of a vehicle in that class ..."
 
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TGM said:
ROG, can you clarify this for me please:

"Those who are under age 21 and wish to drive a PRIVATE LGV OVER 7.5 tonnes GVW on the public highway AFTER passing the LGV C test WILL need to take and pass the INITIAL LGV DCPC"

Daughter is 18 and is undertaking training for her C1 test in order to be able to drive our 7.5 tonne horsebox (private use). Can you confirm that she DOESN'T need to pass her Initial CPC once she has passed her C1 in order to drive our lorry. (Lady at the training centre thinks she does have to take her Initial CPC). From what you say, she would only need CPC IF our lorry was over 7.5 tonne (which it is not).

To prove she needs the CPC we have been given a photocopied page from an unknown publication which states:

"The minimum age for driving vehicles in category C (and their sub-categories) is reduced to 18 where the person driving
- has a Driver CPC qualification authorising the driving of a vehicle in that class ..."
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A person can take a LGV C1 or C training course & test without the need for dcpc

It is only if under age 21 and driving a LGV C privately that dcpc will be needed
LGV C1 driven privately if under age 21 does not need dcpc
 
ThomasandTia said:
Ie if you intend on driving for a living you need dcpc for private use only no dcpc is needed
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Unless you are driving a private (not for a living) LGV over 7.5 tonnes GVW and are under age 21

This is the quid-pro-quo for the lowering of the age from 21 to 18 for those driving any LGV over 7.5 GVW when under age 21
 
Can I recommend Peter Smythe training for anyone wanting to do their LGV licence. I have passed after the course, and the instructors are fab. Really enjoyed it.
 
Stroppy Mare said:
Can I recommend Peter Smythe training for anyone wanting to do their LGV licence. I have passed after the course, and the instructors are fab. Really enjoyed it.
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Peter Smythe are the sponsors of the newbies forum on the trucknetuk site and they have free accomodation for those well out of area (Mansfield notts) doing courses

There is also 10% off courses for trucknetuk members
 
Hi ROG,
I have just completed my Cat C 🎉, and am in the process of purchasing a 7.5t Horsebox for personal use. Will I need to fill in the tachograph, or am I right in assuming I don't need to?
 
blackhor2e said:
Hi ROG,
I have just completed my Cat C ��, and am in the process of purchasing a 7.5t Horsebox for personal use. Will I need to fill in the tachograph, or am I right in assuming I don't need to?
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Tacho exempt for private LGV driving in a vehicle not more than 75000kg GVW
 
Hi font of all lorry wisdom, I read above that you have to go to a weighbridge to get accurate weight, but I see on my MOT that it shows a "measured weight" of my 7.5T box - would this therefore be the weight of the lorry, or is it some other weird measurement of the loading on the axles or somesuch nonsense?!? Obviously if it is indeed the actual weight it'll save me a trip, but if not I don't want to mislead by using something different. Many thanks, this thread is invaluable and I hope you can answer my query.
 
EventerMum said:
Hi font of all lorry wisdom, I read above that you have to go to a weighbridge to get accurate weight, but I see on my MOT that it shows a "measured weight" of my 7.5T box - would this therefore be the weight of the lorry, or is it some other weird measurement of the loading on the axles or somesuch nonsense?!? Obviously if it is indeed the actual weight it'll save me a trip, but if not I don't want to mislead by using something different. Many thanks, this thread is invaluable and I hope you can answer my query.
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I am not certain what is mean by measured weight either as its not a term I have ever heard of
 
Thanks very much for answering - I did a bit more googling and it sounds as if it's not the actual weight but a calculated weight adding both individual axle weights together. Apparently the actual weight should be quite a bit less, so we're off to the local weighbridge to check it out. Thought it was too easy, but relieved if it's not as heavy as the MOT suggested!
 
Hi ROG, any idea how long the medical is valid for? I have my C1 Provisional licence that expires in 2026, but is the medical valid for that long or would I have to get another one done after a certain amount of time?
Thanks!
 
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