The nagging feeling that riding horses is just odd

Smogul said:
Depends on the horse. I have seen many kids ponies who adored looking after their small riders but had no interest in more "interesting" activities with an older rider.
Click to expand...
I don’t really mean that they want to do more interesting things. Im more meaning that the more times a pony gets sold the more chance it will end up in the wrong hands. Plus they form bonds with their herds so it must be hard for them to keep being moved.
 
Petalpoos said:
Totally with you @IrishMilo. Surely most horses would actually just like to be out with a herd, without any rugs or shoes etc and munching on an extensive acreage of rough pasture.
Click to expand...

Although it might be 'many' I think it's a step too far to say 'most'. I had a native that would have curled up and died if I'd have left her without a rug, or died of laminitis if I'd have left her in extensive acreage. She was much happier in a small herd of 3, in at night and rugged as the weather dictated. Anymore than 3 and she found it too stressful. Most children would like to stay up until midnight, eating nothing but sweets, but it doesn't make it wrong that we don't allow it.
 
Smogul said:
Depends on the horse. I have seen many kids ponies who adored looking after their small riders but had no interest in more "interesting" activities with an older rider.
Click to expand...
There is definitely the niche child’s pony, they have worked how much work they can get away with not doing, by complying in a fashion, and they only get stroppy when someone who thinks they can get a better tune out of them tries to get them to do things properly. The child often wants to do more when they get older so it's better for the pony they get handed on to be often pampered and have some else they can skive off with.
If you go to most PC's there is the walking sofa that springs in to life in a fashion, does it's party piece and then slumps resting a leg straight after.
My friend had an old show pony who could virtually do the set show on its own, but if he anticipated the gallop there was no way he would do it again at the right time.
 
Clodagh said:
I think now to want to maybe put younger people who haven’t had all the fun put in a position where they feel bad for doing so is maybe a bit rude? (Maybe not rude but I can’t think of a better word).
Click to expand...

I think this is a very valid point. I am a much older adult who stopped riding 3 years ago at 73 due to my injury and illness, nothing at all to do with not wanting to, I jolly well really did and still do want to but that's life. In my younger years I suspect many of you would think I was an awful slave driver, I almost always had more than one riding horse and would expect the fittest one to do at least 2 to 3 hour rides most days of the week. The others maybe were more for showing and some just retired companions. Some I would sell on after a year or so when I felt they had improved enough and I had put some value on them., purely a hobby sideline certainly not my means to earning a living that's for sure! But my own two particular riding horses right through the decades have always without exception retired with me, or been PTS for health and soundness reasons.

I always wanted to ride right from a three year old up into my 70s. However now I can no longer ride, up until 6 months or so back when I had to have my last retired horse PTS I enjoyed just having her company and caring for her and the donkeys. Having said all that, as I got older (after about 55/60 onwards I no longer wanted those long fast rides or tiring days prepping and showing etc. etc. I only wanted to hack about, sometimes a little speedy if my current horse was up for it, if not just a dawdle around the lanes was grand.

But as Clodagh has so rightly pointed out why would I have the nerve to say to younger keener riders, oh in recent years I only worked my horses occasionally and wouldn't expect them to be fighting fit and 'earn their keep' or achieve great things. What a nerve, you younger ones go out there and do what ever you want to do, be that hack, compete, or just pamper and cuddle. Each to their own. Nobody is right on this one and nobody is wrong.
 
Clodagh said:
Animals all earn their keep one way or another, or we wouldn’t buy them. Pleasure in their company/being good for the soul can be a perfect justification. But it’s not for everyone.

I don’t mean this to be nasty… but mainly I’m making the sweeping assumption that the anti riding people in here are maybe older and have many years of happy hacking/schooling/ competing behind them. Many get softer and more empathetic as they mature, I have, although i have no issue with animals having jobs.
I think now to want to maybe put younger people who haven’t had all the fun put in a position where they feel bad for doing so is maybe a bit rude? (Maybe not rude but I can’t think of a better word).
Click to expand...

Young-ish here (30s), have always been hyper-sensitive to animals and their feelings, didn't own my first horse until I was an adult and could pay my own way. I love riding a lot and wish I had a horse that I could ride if they enjoyed it, but the universe had other ideas so my feet are firmly on the ground for now.

There are people out there in alternative circles who train using consent-based methods and are doing a great job of it. I think a huge part of riding ethically is knowing your horse inside out and actually understanding what pain behaviours look like - many don't.

I have no problem with riding in theory if the horse genuinely enjoys it, but the prey animal instincts mean that they do mask a lot, so I would always have a niggling fear that I may miss something. My horse used to turn around and nudge my foot to say 'Please get off now', which began happening repeatedly after 20 minutes of being on their back, and eventually led to their retirement after a whole host of investigations and diagnoses. Many people wouldn't have noticed this subtle cue and would have just kicked on.
 
Somewhat Off The Way said:
Thank you. Yes, I meant that if riding was outlawed or I couldn't ride then I wouldn't have chosen to keep horses for companionship, I'd have chosen cheaper pets! And I suspect the same is true of many others too, if they're honest about it. Again, the horses I have currently will always stay with me (unless something terrible happens that means I can't look after them properly. Then it would be PTS or gift to a charity or friend as appropriate).

Knowing how readily a lot of people give up their oldies, I think a significant proportion of owners and businesses would give up their horses if they couldn't ride them anymore. So there would suddenly be a lot of previously loved and cared for horses on the market, as companions only.

Also worth noting that welfare charities frequently recieve large numbers of non-ridden horses, far more than ridden horses.
Click to expand...
But change takes time. We're not going to wake up tomorrow to hear horse riding has become illegal but over time it may become less socially acceptable to ride. In this scenario, less people will get in to the sport, there'll be less demand so we'll breed less horses and the sport will be phased out. There won't be a mass cull more a gradual decline in horse riding and horses in general.

It's ok to have a different opinion but I believe saying you ride because otherwise all the horses would be culled is a poor argument!
 
rabatsa said:
Did you purchase the horse just to pay its bills? Or did you have another reason and she has earned perpetual care?

For information I have three donkeys, all purchased in the knowledge that I would never be riding them but they earn their keep in other ways.
Click to expand...
I purchased her to ride. I have changed my mind over the years. I wouldn’t consider any of my pets to be earning their keep through companionship. You can see it like that, I see it as a privilege I also pay for.

Clodagh said:
I don’t mean this to be nasty… but mainly I’m making the sweeping assumption that the anti riding people in here are maybe older and have many years of happy hacking/schooling/ competing behind them. Many get softer and more empathetic as they mature, I have, although i have no issue with animals having jobs.
I think now to want to maybe put younger people who haven’t had all the fun put in a position where they feel bad for doing so is maybe a bit rude? (Maybe not rude but I can’t think of a better word).
Click to expand...
I’m 32, if that helps.
 
Bellaboo18 said:
But change takes time. We're not going to wake up tomorrow to hear horse riding has become illegal but over time it may become less socially acceptable to ride. In this scenario, less people will get in to the sport, there'll be less demand so we'll breed less horses and the sport will be phased out. There won't be a mass cull more a gradual decline in horse riding and horses in general.

It's ok to have a different opinion but I believe saying you ride because otherwise all the horses would be culled is a poor argument!
Click to expand...

True, I agree there wouldn't be a mass cull. It would be worse, there'd be an increase of horse abandonment by people (and businesses) who wouldn't keep them anymore.

I don't ride so that horses won't be culled. I chose to buy horses rather than, let's say donkeys, because I can also ride them. If the law changed, then once my horses were no longer alive, then I would choose to keep animals that are less expensive, lower upkeep and less heartbreaking instead.

I'm not convinced that everybody who says they would definitely have bought a horse if they knew they couldn't ride is being entirely honest.
 
This is me. I stopped because I had a sensitive horse which was giving cues of not being happy. As my degenerative back issue got worse, and I became more aware of how the little things caused me pain, I went down a rabbit hole of pain and behavioural cues in ridden horses, and started applying that, "connection" training etc. Then it progressed to me becoming known for it and being given ones who had hard ridden lives and by their owners admissions, they felt a bit guilty for discarding them because they had become difficult or broken down, but knew they'd get a soft landing with me. I have considered gently hacking them out again, for changes of scenery, as I can't walk as far as fast as them anymore, but also I feel terrible for even thinking about it. I've always been a soft arse though
 
Great thread and I’ve been feeling kinda similar albeit from not having my own/relying on a riding school to do so.

I’ve not ridden for three years, hopefully will get back on at some point, at where I was training because I absolutely 100% know it’s decent from an all round welfare point of view and that’s what my sticking point is. I have absolutely no desire to ride a horse that is being used in a manner that means any element of its welfare is compromised, whether that’s tack, hours worked, stables vs out, what level of care if gets if off work, education outside of lessons, especially if an older horse etc etc.

I’ve always been super pro riding schools for many reasons, and absolutely 100% value the role riding school/training centre horses play in the industry but things are changing, and everyone needs to keep up. I would rather never ride again, than pay to get on a horse where corners are cut in its management/day to day life.

I remember once a coach saying it was my job to ride through a particularly stiff session, and even then I was of the opinion that management started on the ground long before the suppling schooling sessions (which for that horse was 45mins a week amongst hours of novices)…
 
Last edited:
Somewhat Off The Way said:
True, I agree there wouldn't be a mass cull. It would be worse, there'd be an increase of horse abandonment by people (and businesses) who wouldn't keep them anymore.

I don't ride so that horses won't be culled. I chose to buy horses rather than, let's say donkeys, because I can also ride them. If the law changed, then once my horses were no longer alive, then I would choose to keep animals that are less expensive, lower upkeep and less heartbreaking instead.

I'm not convinced that everybody who says they would definitely have bought a horse if they knew they couldn't ride is being entirely honest.
Click to expand...
That’s the thing. There’s a transactional value that horses almost uniquely are expected to pay. Except they have no concept that they’ve entered into this agreement simply by being born. And they cannot consent, or often, withdraw from the agreement.

It’s interesting.
 
equinerebel said:
That’s the thing. There’s a transactional value that horses almost uniquely are expected to pay. Except they have no concept that they’ve entered into this agreement simply by being born. And they cannot consent, or often, withdraw from the agreement.

It’s interesting.
Click to expand...

I agree, except that I do value companionship as something with transactional value. So, for example, I think that lap dogs provide huge value in the form of companionship to some people but often the price they pay is that they're over fed and under stimulated. Whereas a traditional working dog might be seen as paying a higher price because they do physical work, but I often think that lifestyle is better for the dog.

One of the companion ponies I brought into work had been obese and suffering multiple bouts of laminitis with his previous owner. I changed his diet, got the weight off and now he's a fit ridden pony and his welfare is much higher than before. The price he pays for a better life is hacking out with me and popping the odd log from time to time. He didn't/ can't consent to his new life though.
 
Somewhat Off The Way said:
Will those of you who are determined that horses shouldn't have to work be willing to take on and care for all of our horses if we have to give them up because they can't be ridden anymore? I'd definitely get cheaper companion animals if I couldn't ride anymore.
Click to expand...
Yes, I have one rideable horse the rest are companions. If people just want to ride they should get a bike not a horse
 
Really interesting thread.

I think I differ from most replies in that I still enjoy watching high level competition and find its the lower level that's hard to watch. Being on a livery yard, seeing horses in pain and owners insisting the horse is being naughty just became unbearable for me. We've all heard, he's lame but not in any pain etc etc.

I've definitely lost my love for riding. I took on my mare who was (to me) clearly in pain and getting to the bottom of her problems was eye opening. A well respected vet said she was just being a typical opinionated mare and most liveries seemed to believe the same. The excuses people can come out with to explain behaviour is mind blowing. She was actually extremely stoic to put up with everything we found. I have no doubt alot of people would have continued riding her. I got to the bottom of her whole list of problems and she's now retired at home with me.

At that point I went searching for another to buy and that really put the nail in the (riding) coffin for me, it's thoroughly depressing seeing all the lame/hurting horses out there. I just didn't want to risk going through the emotional rollercoaster that is investigating lameness etc again so I just got her a companion.

I don't doubt there are happy ridden horses out there but there's definitely a lot of extremely sad stories.
 
Somewhat Off The Way said:
then I would choose to keep animals that are less expensive, lower upkeep and less heartbreaking instead.
Click to expand...

I struggle with that viewpoint to be honest. I have found the loss of any animal that has been my companion, pet or whatever the correct phrase is, equally devastating and heartbreaking if they were a little terrier that cost me tuppence halfpenny to buy and keep, as much as the thousands I might have paid for a horse to ride and to care for it. All broke my heart for the loss one way or the other, no matter their monetary value or cost of upkeep. 🤷‍♀️
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
I struggle with that viewpoint to be honest. I have found the loss of any animal that has been my companion, pet or whatever the correct phrase is, equally devastating and heartbreaking if they were a little terrier that cost me tuppence halfpenny to buy and keep, as much as the thousands I might have paid for a horse to ride and to care for it. All broke my heart for the loss one way or the other, no matter their monetary value or cost of upkeep. 🤷‍♀️
Click to expand...
Sorry, I can't feel as upset about a chicken as a horse or a dog or even a parrot. Companion animals will always be heartbreaking of course but what I meant was that horses are frequently breaking your heart (they cause so much worry! Field kicks, to rug or not, why is he standing like that!?) Whereas other companion animals are less breakable. I didn't mean that I wouldn't be sad if my dog died! Blimey.
 
Last edited:
southerncomfort said:
Sorry to pick on your post sfe, but I just can't buy in to the notion of a horse loving competing.

Where you see a horse loving it's job, I see a horse that KNOWS its job, has been trained to do that job, and is often pretty wired due to the competition atmosphere.

It's the same with showing. Anyone who says 'he's loves the show ring....he really lights up'. Sorry, but this is bowlarks! The horse is hot and het up, and responding to the show atmosphere and being asked to trot round with other horses. What you're seeing is a horse having a low level stress response. The idea of any horse loving being in a show ring is just daft.

That said, I don't think competing is wrong per se. But modern competition seems to have placed even more stress on the horse, you only have to look at top level dressage horses that constantly look as though they are on the verge of a breakdown.

With my own pony, I resolved to do things he enjoyed, so we hack and dabble in TREC (although I have concerns about top level TREC comps too, and wouldn't put any horse through it to be honest). We also have lessons, which he doesn't love, I admit, but they are a necessary evil to keep us both working in a healthy way.

The hard truth is that if I didn't ride him, he wouldn't be able to have any grass turnout, or live any kind of natural life at all. So i ride him, but make sure it's fun for him too.
Click to expand...
I'm really not sure...when I look at our working sheepdogs, their work really is central to their happiness I think. Humans have bred them to be like that of course but the end result is an animal that really is quite driven. A non-working/low stimulus home would be hell for these dogs and I think some competitively bred horses may be similar, but perhaps not to the same extent.

I think it's hard too, to just disentangle the long human-horse relationship and culture, with it's good and bad bits. I feel myself when I'm with a horse and possibly more so when riding but that is likely habituation! However, my horses lives would be genuinely less rich for them without their ridden or in hand work (at my behest). I simply cannot provide the level of stimulus and enrichment that I know our hill ponies have within a natural free running herd without ridden or other human designed activity.

I would not choose, for welfare reasons, a healthy horse to simply exist in the average UK pasture or livery set up tbh. These are such intelligent, curious, sensitive and athletic animals that feels akin to letting children sit on the internet all day. Horses are worthy of far more than that kind of mental subsistence to me, so riding, in hand work etc feel genuinely important, but with a load of caveats to respect their lack of true agency in many settings.
 
Somewhat Off The Way said:
Sorry, I can't feel as upset about a chicken as a horse or a dog or even a parrot.
Click to expand...

Don't apologise, each to their own we are all different, but I do find it a rather sad your level of empathy is measured by the size or value of a sentient being in your care.
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
Don't apologise, each to their own we are all different, but I do find it a rather sad your level of empathy is measured by the size or value of a sentient being in your care.
Click to expand...
Mmhmm, well I'm sure that if you had one opportunity to save either a chicken OR a horse, but not both, I can guess which one you'd choose to save.
 
Somewhat Off The Way said:
I agree, except that I do value companionship as something with transactional value. So, for example, I think that lap dogs provide huge value in the form of companionship to some people but often the price they pay is that they're over fed and under stimulated. Whereas a traditional working dog might be seen as paying a higher price because they do physical work, but I often think that lifestyle is better for the dog.
Click to expand...
Sure, but if people started expecting all dogs to be lap dogs, training them to be lap dogs and entering competitions to be the best lap dog, I’m sure we’d see ethical questions pop up in that scenario too. We certainly do in dog showing.

The problem is in how we view these sentient animals life purpose, and what we feel owed by them.
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
I struggle with that viewpoint to be honest. I have found the loss of any animal that has been my companion, pet or whatever the correct phrase is, equally devastating and heartbreaking if they were a little terrier that cost me tuppence halfpenny to buy and keep, as much as the thousands I might have paid for a horse to ride and to care for it. All broke my heart for the loss one way or the other, no matter their monetary value or cost of upkeep. 🤷‍♀️
Click to expand...
Me too

I feel as much of a hole in my life after losing the cat which adopted me as a tiny feral kitten as I did my Ardennes draft horse.
 
I have lost interest in watching it at elite level. I lost interest a little while ago and I still feel the same.

As for riding mine...well, he definitely will tell you when he is not happy to be ridden or worked. I feel bad for years that I had ignored his pain signals and chalked it up to lazy. Now that I acknowledge this and changed what we do and how we do it along with coming to terms to his limitations, it has completely transformed my relationship with him. I have learned to really enjoy the ownership part - something I never thought I would. But, if I had a horse that could and wanted to do more, I would be more than happy. I miss properly riding but wouldn't give up my broken horse for it.
 
SEL said:
Me too

I feel as much of a hole in my life after losing the cat which adopted me as a tiny feral kitten as I did my Ardennes draft horse.
Click to expand...
Of course, because you've taken my words to mean that I would only be heartbroken if my horse died. But what I meant was that horses are more heartbreaking to keep because they cause a lot more worry on a daily basis. They seem uniquely fragile to me. And maybe that's personal to me.
 
Somewhat Off The Way said:
True, I agree there wouldn't be a mass cull. It would be worse, there'd be an increase of horse abandonment by people (and businesses) who wouldn't keep them anymore.

I don't ride so that horses won't be culled. I chose to buy horses rather than, let's say donkeys, because I can also ride them. If the law changed, then once my horses were no longer alive, then I would choose to keep animals that are less expensive, lower upkeep and less heartbreaking instead.

I'm not convinced that everybody who says they would definitely have bought a horse if they knew they couldn't ride is being entirely honest.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone has said they'd buy a horse as a pet(?) People do buy horses to ride but a lot of people are now questioning the ethics of doing this so potentially these people will stop riding and not buy future horses therefore less will be bred. So the sport and horses in general will be phased out.

There'd be no mass abandonment, the people that are worrying about the ethics of riding aren't about to dump their horses.

This isn't talking about some sudden change in law, it's talking about what is seen as socially acceptable and change over time.
 
I think it is an interesting topic and one I think we've poss all thought of/have changed views on. I'm definitely a bit different than I used to be.

I've had just as much worry over the health and well being of my guinea pigs as I ever did with the pony, though I have felt his loss harder and longer - but that might just be the difference between 6 and 17 years of having them in my life.
 
Somewhat Off The Way said:
I can guess which one you'd choose to save.
Click to expand...

Really? Don't be too sure, you have no way of knowing what thought process I might have. If the horse was old and sick, the chicken young and healthy, well then what would I choose? As equinerebel said that is very much the trolley question. And more about one's own ethical decisions in any given scenario so really not quite the point of the discussion is it?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top