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teddypops

teddypops

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I bought a 17” Kent and Masters saddle from the saddle bank and although it is stamped as 17” it definitely measures 18” mid stud to mid cantle, so it’s too long and no good. I can return for a refund, but I have to pay postage both ways plus a £10 trial fee. So I would be out of pocket of around £60 when I don’t feel it is my error. What are everyone’s thought please? Thanks!
 
Difficult one. If its stamped 17 inch then I can see why they sold it as such.
What do the panels measure?
 
I would feel frustrated and ripped off BUT I dont think the fault lies with TSB as they supplied what was advertised. If the saddle is stamped as 17" then that is what it would be advertised as.

The real issue is with the wrong stamp on the saddle at point of manufacture but too late to rectify that now.

Have you tried the saddle in the horse as well as measuring? It might fit ok, sometimes nail heads arent in the exact position so the saddle might actually be built on 17" tree
 
TPO said:
I would feel frustrated and ripped off BUT I dont think the fault lies with TSB as they supplied what was advertised. If the saddle is stamped as 17" then that is what it would be advertised as.

The real issue is with the wrong stamp on the saddle at point of manufacture but too late to rectify that now.

Have you tried the saddle in the horse as well as measuring? It might fit ok, sometimes nail heads arent in the exact position so the saddle might actually be built on 17" tree
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It’s too long for her as expected. I will just have to return it and lose the £60 which is very annoying as had it actually been 17” it would have been fine.
 
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I feel your pain. I would definitely be having a "why me??" meltdown at the unfairness that nothing can ever go right.

Is it worth contacting TSB and ask them to waive the trial fee. You were trialling a 17" not an 18".

As much as they sold/sent out in good faith good customer service would perhaps mean they could waive the trial fee. Have you tried sending a photo of a measuring tape on the saddle and asking for fee to be waived. I appreciate that £50 for postage each way is still a hit.

Try parcel monkey as I managed to post a saddle for £14 last year via there
 
TPO said:
I feel your pain. I would definitely be having a "why me??" meltdown at the unfairness that nothing can ever go right.

Is it worth contacting TSB and ask them to waive the trial fee. You were trialling a 17" not an 18".

As much as they sold/sent out in good faith good customer service would perhaps mean they could waive the trial fee. Have you tried sending a photo of a measuring tape on the saddle and asking for fee to be waived. I appreciate that £50 for postage each way is still a hit.

Try parcel monkey as I managed to post a saddle for £14 last year via there
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I have asked them and I got a fairly sharp reply saying no! Ok, thanks I will have a look!
 
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teddypops said:
I have asked them and I got a fairly sharp reply saying no! Ok, thanks I will have a look!
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That's a bit rough.

Now I'm thinking about it is it worth contacting trading standards for advice?

I'm just imaging that I ordered a size 12 pair of jeans and a too big pair with a sz 12 label arrived I would expect the company to refund full amount and send postage label for their return.

At the end of the day TSB are responsible for the products that they send out.
 
TPO said:
That's a bit rough.

Now I'm thinking about it is it worth contacting trading standards for advice?

I'm just imaging that I ordered a size 12 pair of jeans and a too big pair with a sz 12 label arrived I would expect the company to refund full amount and send postage label for their return.

At the end of the day TSB are responsible for the products that they send out.
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That’s what I thought. I have even sent a picture showing it to be 18”.
I’ll speak to citizens advice tomorrow and see what they have to say. I think they contact trading standards if it’s applicable. Thanks.
 
Trading standards does not exist for ordinary people any more it is more sort of a government thing now about revenue from sales of fakes and dangerous faulty products existing. You will be directed to Consumer Direct who help with how to take someone to small claims court. Thank you for the heads up on the Saddle Bank it is always good to know who cares and who only wants your money! If you have not already done so I would phone them and ask to speak to a manager maybe they have more sense than an admin answering emails.
 
Hi All,


Jade from The Saddle Bank here. :)

Just to clarify the situation.

The saddle is a 17 inch Kent and Masters GPD.. The saddle is stamped 17 GPD under the left girth straps as are all Kent and Masters Saddles.

We specialise in Kent and Masters so see 400+ of them every year.

I have reassured the client it is a 17 inch saddle, and advised her to contact the manufacturer to verify this as the issue she has is with the stamped size of the saddle not with the service we provide.

We offer our trial on all used saddles within the UK to enable clients to purchase saddles in a safe manner and if for any reason they do not fit the horse, rider, or if the rider does not like the design, or condition of the saddle they can be returned.

However providing this service does cost money in packaging materials; boxes, tape, bubble wrap, courier costs, cleaning costs, and handling..
We do not make money on saddles which are returned to us - in fact we actually loose money by offering this service.
However we offer it to clients in the UK as buying second hand is something we have struggled with personally, and most people are exceptionally pleased to be able to use the service and have the security of returning the saddle should it not be right for them.

We have accurately described the saddle in the listing as a 17 inch - different manufactures have different trees and build saddles differently.
Again I have advised the client to contact the manufacturer for reassurance that it is the correct stamped size, but she has refused to do so.
As she mentioned above - it comes down to the fact it is too big for her 14.2hh pony.

If we make an error we always put it right, and rectify it in the quickest possible way for the client.
However in this case there is no error. The saddle is correctly listed and the client is more than welcome to return the saddle under the trial policy which is offered to all clients in the UK.

We are always happy to help where possible, and work extremely hard to provide the services we do :)

- The Saddle Bank
 
hmmm. Do K&M "just" measure big then? seem to remember there was a thread a while back about another brand that measured a lot bigger than they were stamped. Childeric?
 
I know how hard it is to measure saddles accurately as we just sold them a 16.5 K&M that measured either 17 or 16.5 depending on whether you included the cantle in the measurement or not, but we knew it was 16.5 as that was what was stamped and we know now that those saddles need to be measured up to but not including the cantle. It is very subjective measuring saddles as there are so many factors to take into account. Can’t fault the service we had from the saddle bank and I would recommend them to Anyone.
 
TheSaddleNank said:
Hi All,


Jade from The Saddle Bank here. :)

Just to clarify the situation.

The saddle is a 17 inch Kent and Masters GPD.. The saddle is stamped 17 GPD under the left girth straps as are all Kent and Masters Saddles.

We specialise in Kent and Masters so see 400+ of them every year.

I have reassured the client it is a 17 inch saddle, and advised her to contact the manufacturer to verify this as the issue she has is with the stamped size of the saddle not with the service we provide.

We offer our trial on all used saddles within the UK to enable clients to purchase saddles in a safe manner and if for any reason they do not fit the horse, rider, or if the rider does not like the design, or condition of the saddle they can be returned.

However providing this service does cost money in packaging materials; boxes, tape, bubble wrap, courier costs, cleaning costs, and handling..
We do not make money on saddles which are returned to us - in fact we actually loose money by offering this service.
However we offer it to clients in the UK as buying second hand is something we have struggled with personally, and most people are exceptionally pleased to be able to use the service and have the security of returning the saddle should it not be right for them.

We have accurately described the saddle in the listing as a 17 inch - different manufactures have different trees and build saddles differently.
Again I have advised the client to contact the manufacturer for reassurance that it is the correct stamped size, but she has refused to do so.
As she mentioned above - it comes down to the fact it is too big for her 14.2hh pony.

If we make an error we always put it right, and rectify it in the quickest possible way for the client.
However in this case there is no error. The saddle is correctly listed and the client is more than welcome to return the saddle under the trial policy which is offered to all clients in the UK.

We are always happy to help where possible, and work extremely hard to provide the services we do :)

- The Saddle Bank
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Except it measures 18” and I bought a 17” which is what I needed. As I have already said, my contract is with you, not Kent and masters and no where does it state that this 17” measures 18”. I would not have bought it as I need a 17”. Of course it is too big! I need a 17” not an 18”. If it was a 17” then it would have been fine. I am not in the wrong here but I have returned the saddle and I have lost a chunk of money for nothing. Hardly fair.
 
TSB - I totally disagree, the contract of sale is with you, the seller, not the manufacturer. If I bought a pair of jeans sized wrong from Asda, I don't expect to have to go to their manufacturer for a resolution.

The fact is if the OP has measured has measured correctly, the saddle doesn't measure 17" so regardless of the stamp it has been mis-sold. It would be difficult to 'over measure' by a whole inch.
 
AFB said:
TSB - I totally disagree, the contract of sale is with you, the seller, not the manufacturer. If I bought a pair of jeans sized wrong from Asda, I don't expect to have to go to their manufacturer for a resolution.

The fact is if the OP has measured has measured correctly, the saddle doesn't measure 17" so regardless of the stamp it has been mis-sold. It would be difficult to 'over measure' by a whole inch.
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Thanks, I have measured it as 18” and sent pics but it doesn’t matter now as the saddle has been sent back. I can’t be bothered arguing even although I am now £65 out of pocket.
 
Now, a bit of decent customer service from the saddle bank and an unpatronising reply here would have gone a long way towards some good PR for them. As it is, their public response while polite is a bit obnoxious and they'll definitely be off my list of companies I'd deal with in the future!
 
Roxylola said:
Now, a bit of decent customer service from the saddle bank and an unpatronising reply here would have gone a long way towards some good PR for them. As it is, their public response while polite is a bit obnoxious and they'll definitely be off my list of companies I'd deal with in the future!
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yes has made me a bit wary, I am currently looking to upgrade one of my horse's saddles so in the 2nd hand market and places offering a trial are very appealing compared to buying privately from a randomer on the internet but...
 
But despite there being a common way of measuring saddles many of them don’t measure the size you would expect them to. Some brands are known for measuring small others big. Surely this is the point of somewhere like the saddle bank where you can try and return if not suitable rather than buying and then having to resell?
 
milliepops said:
yes has made me a bit wary, I am currently looking to upgrade one of my horse's saddles so in the 2nd hand market and places offering a trial are very appealing compared to buying privately from a randomer on the internet but...
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I haven't bought from but had some dealings with sheepham saddles when I was looking. They were really good to deal with, very prompt to reply, very open and honest, and their suggested fitters were the only ones I would use locally
 
Throwogoods and K&M saddles are notorious for being bigger than stamped. My fitter always advises you NEVER buy one unseen as they need to be measured.

Shocking service from TSB and I for one wont use them again. I really hope that they are going to put a note on the saddle ad to advise others that it measures bigger than it is. I doubt it as 18" isn't anywhere near as desirable
 
gallopingby said:
But despite there being a common way of measuring saddles many of them don’t measure the size you would expect them to. Some brands are known for measuring small others big. Surely this is the point of somewhere like the saddle bank where you can try and return if not suitable rather than buying and then having to resell?
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Yes it is which is why I went with them but an 18” saddle is never going to fit a pony that needs a 17”. I would not have bought it had I known it was an 18” therefore I would now not be out of pocket.
 
gallopingby said:
But despite there being a common way of measuring saddles many of them don’t measure the size you would expect them to. Some brands are known for measuring small others big. Surely this is the point of somewhere like the saddle bank where you can try and return if not suitable rather than buying and then having to resell?
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I had a 17.5" k&m and it measured in at that.

I bought from TSB as I knew, after having a fitter out to try one in the flesh, what size of K&M I needed but the saddle fitter didn't have the model that I wanted.

I knew a 17.5 fitted, I ordered a 17.5 for that reason and if an 18" had arrived, regardless of the makers stamp, it wouldn't have fitted.

OP knows that a 17" fits, needed a 17", ordered a 17" then what arrived was too long by 1". OP measures saddle and finds it measures in at 18".

Why should OP be £65 out of pocket because a "faulty/not as described" item was sent. The onus is on the seller to check the saddles before resale; that include tree, stitching, flocking and size then advertise it correctly.

There very well might have been a mix up at the manufacturing stage, things happen, but it doesnt seem right that you order a 10" pepperoni pizza but when a 7" Hawaiian arrives the buyer is left out of pocket.
 
I would have a look at Patrick Wilkinson for a trial saddle. I bought a lovely Chelderic jump from them, plus they sold my old one.

Patrick is a saddler and is happy to advise if a saddle looks big or not, there was a black one (that I would have preferred as my bridles are black) and, from what I recollect, despite the owner insisting the sale as a 17.5 mw, he listed that the owner says it was a 17.5mw, but it measures 18m... So, I trialled and brought the brown one, that was indeed exactly as I wanted.

On the other side, I sold a Barrie Swain 17.5mw on eBay, and the owner wanted a refund saying that the saddle was lovely, but only measured 17" and so was unsuitable. I had a receipt from new saying it was a 17.5 but on measuring the saddle when it returned, the purchaser was correct.

On looking into this, I found that the tree was a 17.5, but the seat measured 17. I did refund the saddle, but the purchaser paid the postage, as the tree was confirmed as a 17.5. The advert had said 17.5 tree, as it happens. If the purchaser had insisted, I would have paid the return postage at the time, but it seemed like a gentleman's agreement that I simply refunded.

As luck would have it, I kept it for a year, as life was happening in a big way (mum is ill) and when I dug it out to sell again, tra la, it fits! So, my Equipe 17.5mw is now for sale (and worth substantially more than the Barrie Swain as it is almost new!).
 
Leo Walker said:
Throwogoods and K&M saddles are notorious for being bigger than stamped. My fitter always advises you NEVER buy one unseen as they need to be measured.
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I think you've answered a problem I've had there. New microcob has a 16.5" throwogood (professionally fitted but when she was carrying the BOGOF). Its too long - which is something that should have been picked up at the fitting irrespective of baby on board - but my 16.5" saddle company saddle is the perfect length.

I couldn't find my tape measure but if the throwogoods regularly come up long then that would explain the discrepancy.
 
Hi All,

Please find below confirmation of the saddle size from Kent and Masters.
They have also advised RE the nail heads that they are fitted by eye, and therefore this is not an accurate method of measuring a saddle.

Unfortunately on this occasion I cannot do anymore to reassure the client that it is a 17 inch saddle, as described, and sold.

If you have any concerns or comments about the products or services we offer at The Saddle Bank please do feel free to get in touch directly and we are more than happy to discuss with you.

- The Saddle Bank




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