There is something wrong with Blomma

Emilieu

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Can I just say @FinnishLapphund, that should I ever chance to come back to earth as an animal I want to be owned by you. I know a lot of diligent and loving owners, but you and your pee watch must beat them all. I hope you find the answer for Blooma, and I am so very sorry you lost your little cat. She was absolutely beautiful.
 

alibali

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Oh dear FL, you and your animal family are having a hard time of it at the moment. I hope everyone gets well soon. It's so worrying when they're ill, you must be exhausted too. Don't forget to take care of yourself as well.
 

fankino04

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Oh gosh they are really putting you through it at the moment FL. Fingers crossed you get some answers soon and can have a bit of peace and quiet.
@Levrier sorry to hear that Ace has not continued his improvement, I can highly recommend my super physio but don't think she goes further from Wiltshire than Cirencester, she does seem to find things that others can't though...
 

palo1

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Okay, so the veterinarian called this afternoon, and my head is spinning. After talking to the other veterinarians, they concluded they hadn't treated, or heard of, a dog with Diabetes Insipidus reacting like Blomma on the medication. Either dogs reacts to the medication, or they don't, not just partly like Blomma.

They agreed it looks like she reacts more to the morning medication dose, than the other doses, but at the same time feels that the 3/4 pills which she gets now, should be her maximum dose. They're now wondering if she perhaps doesn't have Diabetes Insipidus after all!,

o_O

And they want to test her to see if she have hidden Addison's! I thought they had sort of tested that when they tested her for Cushings, because they mentioned kortisol levels, but it turns out she didn't have an ACTH test, without some dexamethasomething test, which only shows if they have Cushings. Unlike the ACTH test, which can show if they have either Cushings, or Addisons.

Like with Cushings, Blomma doesn't have any of the other signs of Addison's, other than drinking, and peeing, too much. But when the veterinarian asked what I wanted to do, I of course wanted them to check Blomma for Addison's. They had a time already tomorrow, early afternoon.
But the veterinarian also wanted me to do a bit different 12 hours water deprivation test.
Remove the water at 18 o'clock (which I did).
Let her out for a pee around the same time (we came home from the daily long walk a little before 18).
Let her out for a last pee as close to before I'm going to bed as possible (this is the new thing), doing it around her last medicine dose at 01 o'clock was okay.
Getting up, and collecting a pee sample to take with me to the veterinarian, at 06 o'clock!

Then she can get water again, and breakfast at 08, but after that, nothing more to eat except the medicine at 09, before going to the veterinarian early afternoon.

Oh, and it's Tuesday tomorrow, so it's also time for me to do the weekly food shopping early in the morning due to the Coronavirus. And we had written a bit larger shopping list than usual. Mum has offered to give them breakfast, and give Blomma her medicine, if I'm not home in time for those things. But it's easy giving Blomma her pills, you just open her mouth, drop the 3/4 pills down into it, and she swallows.

Mum is less confident about having to give Jonna some eye-salve in her left eye. I haven't told you all, last week I also later had to call, and get an appointment to Jonna, because she'd managed to get some junk into her left eye.

So last Friday morning, after euthanising Berta, I took her out to my dad in the car park, and he drove home with her. I went back in, and talked to the veterinarian about Blomma's latest pee sample result. Then I was allowed to continue to wait in the same room, for another veterinarian to come less than an hour later to look at Jonna's eye.
And I was sent home with eye-salve to give Jonna 3 times per day, for 10 days. To make it easier, I chose to give her eye medicine at the same 3 times per day as Blomma's medicine. Which is now making mum worried, because even though Jonna is as sweet, and nice as any dog could be, her squeeze-eye-shut-muscles is in excellent shape.

At least I was able to cancel Beata's appointment to check up on the limping she suddenly developed on a walk last week, because as soon as I had made the call, she stopped limping. But I really feel that it is a bit much on my animal front at the moment. I'm just waiting for something to happen to Cilla the moggy as well.
And what if Blomma doesn't have hidden Addison's either, then what?

:(

If anyone have had the energy to read all the way to the end, I can only offer these two photos I took of my bitches waiting at the veterinarian clinic, as a thank you for taking the time.

Not really stressed by being at the veterinarian clinic (Blomma at the front, Beata at the back, Jonna to the right) :

50506476198_ff3145bcba_z.jpg


Still not stressed, even though I was getting us ready to leave (Jonna, Beata, and Blomma) :

50507197886_d2a0a0c939_z.jpg

So sorry to hear of lovely puss-cat leaving you :( and other tribulations too but goodness me your dogs are absolutely beautiful!! I hadn't realised what an impact 3 of them together might make :) :) I hope that they are soon 'sorted' and that whatever challenge Blomma is sending you is one that you and the vets can identify asap. Lovely, lovely doggos :) :)
 

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Oh @Levrier , I'm sorry to hear Ace doesn't seem to be going onwards, and upwards. It sounded so hopeful in the last post I read about him.

{{{{{{Hugs}}}}}}, and {{{{{{Vibes}}}}}}

Signed by she who doesn't need to say her own name when she calls the vets, only which pet it is this time.

Thanks for your support FL - we saw the physio today who found the area of lameness and the reason for lameness in literally 5 minutes flat. So glad I have some answers for Ace and will be able to start treatment, but wholly unimpressed with my vets!!!!

I do think we need more pictures of your beautiful girls, they are so lovely and fluffy ? Every time I see a picture I think how gorgeous they are, you need to post more ?? xx
 

FinnishLapphund

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Thanks for your support FL - we saw the physio today who found the area of lameness and the reason for lameness in literally 5 minutes flat. So glad I have some answers for Ace and will be able to start treatment, but wholly unimpressed with my vets!!!!

I do think we need more pictures of your beautiful girls, they are so lovely and fluffy ? Every time I see a picture I think how gorgeous they are, you need to post more ?? xx

s057.gif
Woohoo! It seems today is our lucky day, you got answers about what is troubling Ace, and Blomma finally started to show a good response to the Insipidus medicine!

After around 4 hours sleep, I collected their morning pee samples, and this time I thought it looked very promising.

Came home from the weekly food shopping, to mum saying "Did you know, Jonna suddenly had only one eye!"
Jonna had squeezed her left eye shut, mum had tried pułling it open from various directions, before she gave up, and determined to still get some medication into the eye, put a string of salve on the shut eyelids edges, and tried to massage it in, into the eye.
:)

I went to the veterinarian clinic after lunch, handed over the pee sample, together with the latest pee table, and then we started doing the ACTH test. While we waited the 1½ hour before the second blood sample, I think I slept almost an hour on the veterinarian's floor, laying with my head on a mattress the nurse had came with for my bitches.

Eventually they had both the ACTH, and the pee sample, test results, and the veterinarian came and said she doesn't have Addison's, but (finally) her pee sample was less diluted!
I've mentioned before on this thread, normally a dog's urine should (according to my veterinarian) have a dilution value of between 1,025-1,030.
Today Blomma had 1,018!

Her previous results has been 1,001 - 1,007 - and 1,001! But finally she didn't have a result with double zeros.

The trouble is that they don't know if it is safe for a dog to remain on Blomma's current dose 3/4 of a pill 3 x per day. It is only supposed to be a first week's starting dose, and then you should switch down to that dose 2 x per day.
They don't know of any dog that have remained on the 3 x per day dose, and therefore doesn't know if it is safe for a dog to stay on that dose during longer periods.

Basically, they now want her to switch down to 3/4 of a pill 2 x per day. And do a new no water for 12 hours test as similar to the one we did today as possible ( = no water after 18 o'clock, out to pee after 01 o'clock, out for a pee sample at 06 o'clock), at the end of next week.

But I'll take that when it comes. I'm so relieved! Extra much so because the veterinarian said that if they hadn't had any positive results today, the only thing she had left to suggest was a dehydration test which continues for more than 12 hours. I hope we now can avoid doing that.

I had never thought I would be this happy over a less diluted pee sample.
:D

Thank you everyone for your nice replies @alibali , @Rumtytum , @fankino04 , @MrsMozart , @palo1 , @Levrier , and all others who have posted on this thread.
And I did take some photos today at the veterinarian @Levrier :

From left to right, Beata, Jonna, and Blomma
50510617096_f342e2c164_z.jpg


Blomma in the foreground, Beata to the left, Jonna almost hidden
50510797322_99b27d6070_z.jpg


Jonna woke up
50510638196_405f46ef02_z.jpg
 

Rumtytum

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Happy Less Diluted Pee Sample! ⭐
It’s not over yet for Blomma but you’ve come so far and you should be very proud of yourself
You’re the only person I have ever known to fall asleep on the floor in a vets and be given a pillow ?
And your dogs are beautiful ?
 

FinnishLapphund

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I had intended to write an update, but it's been a lot (I'm tired of 2020, Jonna isn't well - fortunately she actually seems better again), however Blomma did yet another no water for 12 hours test on Tuesday, and I talked to the veterinarian about the results on Wednesday.

She's now on two medicine doses per day, instead of three, and her urine's dilution value have gone down from 1,018 to 1,013. I'm happy that it's still with only one zero, which is much better than her first three double zero results, but on other hand it isn't a normal dilution value between 1,025 to 1,030.

We've also had 3 indoor accidents. But nobody saw them happen, so I don't know if it was Blomma, and caused by the Diabetes Insipidus, or either Blomma, or Beata, caused by that Jonna was ill. Or Jonna, because she was ill, or Cilla the moggy, because who knows - she's a cat.

Since two doses per day is the recommended dose for dogs on this medicine, the dilution value isn't alarmingly bad, Blomma seems to be her usual happy self, and also Jonna seems to be better again, we've decided to not do anything next week, without hopefully things will get a chance to calm down a little, and we have an appointment next next week the 17 November.

Hopefully both Blomma, and Jonna, will continue to be okay, there will have been no more accidents indoors during this time, and then they want to both do a new C-Reactive Protein test on Jonna, and for Blomma to arrive without having had any water for 12 hours, but also without having peed, because they first want to look at her bladder (with ultrasound I presume), and then they want to collect a pee sample.
They want to check so that she doesn't have a bladder stone, and then do the usual dilution value test on the pee sample.

And decide about how to continue with Blomma's Insipidus treatment after that. Meanwhile I'm continuing to collect, and measure pee samples. Although lately I haven't been quite as diligent every day, my timing with the container have also been a little off, Blomma stepped in the container once, and made the pee sample flow out...

She's also developed a habit of simply sitting down on the container. Like a proper sit down. Then she gets up wondering if that was good enough, am I happy with that?
And I have to tell her that she needs to pee in the container as well, sitting on it doesn't count.
Of course the other two which doesn't necessarily have to pee in their containers doesn't do that, only the one who really needs to pee in her container.

**Sigh**

Blomma, Jonna, and Beata:

50573548613_5a5a774ff4_z.jpg
 
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Rumtytum

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I had intended to write an update, but it's been a lot (I'm tired of 2020, Jonna isn't well - fortunately she actually seems better again), however Blomma did yet another no water for 12 hours test on Tuesday, and I talked to the veterinarian about the results on Wednesday.

She's now on two medicine doses per day, instead of three, and her urine's dilution value have gone down from 1,018 to 1,013. I'm happy that it's still with only one zero, which is much better than her first three double zero results, but on other hand it isn't a normal dilution value between 1,025 to 1,030.

We've also had 3 indoor accidents. But nobody saw them happen, so I don't know if it was Blomma, and caused by the Diabetes Insipidus, or either Blomma, or Beata, caused by that Jonna was ill. Or Jonna, because she was ill, or Cilla the moggy, because who knows - she's a cat.

Since two doses per day is the recommended dose for dogs on this medicine, the dilution value isn't alarmingly bad, Blomma seems to be her usual happy self, and also Jonna seems to be better again, we've decided to not do anything next week, without hopefully things will get a chance to calm down a little, and we have an appointment next next week the 17 November.

Hopefully both Blomma, and Jonna, will continue to be okay, there will have been no more accidents indoors during this time, and then they want to both do a new C-Reactive Protein test on Jonna, and for Blomma to arrive without having had any water for 12 hours, but also without having peed, because they first want to look at her bladder (with ultrasound I presume), and then they want to collect a pee sample.
They want to check so that she doesn't have a bladder stone, and then do the usual dilution value test on the pee sample.

And decide about how to continue with Blomma's Insipidus treatment after that. Meanwhile I'm continuing to collect, and measure pee samples. Although lately I haven't been quite as diligent every day, my timing with the container have also been a little off, Blomma stepped in the container once, and made the pee sample flow out...

She's also developed a habit of simply sitting down on the container. Like a proper sit down. Then she gets up wondering if that was good enough, am I happy with that?
And I have to tell her that she needs to pee in the container as well, sitting on it doesn't count.
Of course the other two which doesn't necessarily have to pee in their containers doesn't do that, only the one who really needs to pee in her container.

**Sigh**

Blomma, Jonna, and Beata:

50573548613_5a5a774ff4_z.jpg
Thanks for the update FL, you’re doing fantastic work. Just wondering how you explain to Blomma that she mustn’t pee for 12 hours ?. I did laugh (sorry) at her sitting in the tray, bless her! The photo is gorgeous, they are such darlings ?.
 

FinnishLapphund

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@Rumtytum If there isn't any more accidents indoors between now and then, I won't be too worried about her holding herself indoors, even for that long. The part which worries me a little, is the part about getting her out to my Broom, and from the Broom and into the veterinarian clinic, without her peeing.
I'm planning on carrying her, but what if I accidentally put pressure on the full bladder...

I can only imagine how baffled I must have looked the first few times she happily stood up, and I realised the container was still empty. I now know that holding a container while such a fluffy bum sits down on it, will also make my fingers/hand feel warmer, and that I can't trust that as a sign of something warm filling up said container.
Also, due to the fluff hanging down covering the container, my head have to get quite close to be able to see what is happening.

No need to apologise for laughing at it. It often makes me giggle when I realise she's doing it again. It also often makes me sigh. Fortunately she doesn't do it all the time, only occasionally.
 

Errin Paddywack

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Not sure what the new user Flashstar 2 intended by copying a post I put on some time ago. Possibly she was trying to quote it and adding the rolleye as a comment.

Biggest compliment I ever had was from my vet's wife. I was collecting an injection for my mare to stop her holding to an accidental service. She told me that they had very few clients they would trust with such an injection. I felt really honored:rolleyes:
 

chaps89

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They're such beautiful girls.
I'm wondering, do their coats take a lot of time to groom and look after with all the fluff?
I'm afraid I also had a little giggle at the sitting-on-but-not-peeing-in the container. Bless her. They are very obliging to do so well the rest of the time.
I'm sorry you're not quite their with the medication and having to spend so much time at the vets lately, it must be very stressful :(
 

FinnishLapphund

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Not sure what the new user Flashstar 2 intended by copying a post I put on some time ago. Possibly she was trying to quote it and adding the rolleye as a comment.

I just thought it was a newbie post, not quite having got a hang of how posting, quoting etc works. Just like how on Facebook/YouTube some new users doesn't know that you can change a Like/Other reaction by simply clicking it again, if you clicked the wrong one by mistake.

If they actually meant to post a rolleye smiley as a comment to you being proud over a compliment you received, that makes them weird, and not worth paying attention to.
 

FinnishLapphund

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They're such beautiful girls.
I'm wondering, do their coats take a lot of time to groom and look after with all the fluff?
I'm afraid I also had a little giggle at the sitting-on-but-not-peeing-in the container. Bless her. They are very obliging to do so well the rest of the time.
I'm sorry you're not quite their with the medication and having to spend so much time at the vets lately, it must be very stressful :(

Around 10 months of the year a Finnish Lapphund coat which is breed standard correct doesn't require much work. Mostly I just randomly go over them with a comb when I happen to feel like it.
The thing to watch out for is that the undercoat can felt together a little, behind the ears, and sometimes also in the armpits + groin areas.

Around 1 month each in Spring, and Autumn, they shed their coat, and then I can comb/brush one of them for 30 minutes to around 1 hour, and it feels as if there is no end to how much that needs to come off them.
(I <3 my Furminator!)
But I actually only need to give them 2 to 3 longer grooming sessions per dog, per shedding season, and then maybe some quick extra combing, mainly behind the ears, and in the armpits + groin areas.
Combing/brushing dogs is not among my best qualities as a dog owner, and I cope with doing 3, so at least Lapphund bitches doesn't require anywhere near as much coat care as it might look. Male Lapphunds however have more fur than the bitches, so probably require a bit more coat care time than a bitch.
A correct Lapphund coat shouldn't get knots which needs combing out.

Anyhow, as long as I don't think my pet might be dying/need to be euthanised/they'll find something which will lead to death, and besides a bit of worry about how much it is going to cost, besides those things, I usually quite like taking my pets to the veterinarian. Because most of the time I go there with the hope that they'll be able to fix them.

It does feel a bit like I'm going back and forth in shuttle traffic lately. But my main reason is because every no water for 12 hours test is like a small military operation. Making sure they've eaten a last meal with food + water before xx o'clock, planning the day leading up to it, with when to feed, when to take them out, is there time to give them their often daily gnaw bone, remembering to not give any treats during the evening, remembering to give Blomma her medication, and that Blomma can't go looking for any manna having falling down from the cat's food bowl.

Twice as difficult as all the bitche together, is also dealing with an opinionated cat wondering where the heck her water bowl is.

50575494788_346f6e4b92_z.jpg
(Cilla)
 

FinnishLapphund

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Just an update, went back for a last attempt at trying to find if some other problem was involved, and doing yet another dilution check up on Blomma, this week.

The military operation/12 hours without water test, this time didn't involve any going out to pee in the middle of the night, without the opposite. Besides no water, she now also wasn't allowed to go out for a pee for 12 hours.
Last feed with water, and out for a last pee, before 20 o'clock in the evening.

In the morning I carried Blomma out to my Broom, trampled our way to the veterinarian clinic, let out the other bitches, lifted out Blomma, put her down quickly but held up her rump in a standing position while closing the front "door" on the Broom with my other hand. Lifted up Blomma again, carried her into the clinic, then into a room, and lifted her up on a mattress suitable for ultrasounds.

They couldn't see any signs of neither stones, nor crystals, in her very full bladder, so the nurse offered me the choice between a small bed pan, and a large bed pan. I grabbed the large one without hesitation, and we hurried out to collect a pee sample.
Walked in very carefully, handed over the bed pan, and the nurse couldn't stop herself from saying "Gosh, don't think I've ever seen one so full before." Well, Blomma had held herself for well over 12 hours by then.

Her dilution value was again 1,013. They can't figure out why the medication isn't normalising her dilution value. But they're now out of other ideas, and have decided that as long as her symptoms doesn't get worse, we will continue as we are.

Don't remember how often they said she would need to go on check ups. I just remember that they did say something about it back when they first started talking about her having Diabetes Insipidus. But I presume that it is probably either every 6 month, or once a year, at worst every 3rd month. Either way, we hopefully won't need to do a new 12 hours without water test for a few months. Yay!

Life would be easier if she wasn't special, and reacted normally to the medication, but I'm grateful that it at least is helping somewhat.
 
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