There's a land called Overfeeding...

[Auslander]

Seriously....? You have thus far implied that I'm both lazy, ignorant and now also an idiot. The only one with a bad attitude, tone, and insults has actually been you.

You are really rude, polemic and insulting to not only me, but others in the thread. Please stop.

Ignore him. If you look back at his previous posts, there is much history of ignorant, tone-deaf behaviour.

 

[Elno]

Look at the size of that head! Her head does look very reminiscent of the Westphalian Kaltblut's head, is her muzzle square? I have had much taller horses than the Kaltblut but never one with a bigger head.

I know it's huge compared to her body? She is around 15.1 and she could probably fit a x-full bridle without looking silly. In fact I will probably buy x-full next time I'm tack shopping because her full ones are in my opinion a bit too snug over the brow, jaw and mid portion making a plain cavesson done up on last hole too tight still for my liking. The side pieces are correct in full size though ??‍

She's of a rare breed from Lithuania called Large Zemaituka ?


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Žemaitukas

http://www.agrowebcee.net/awlt/animal-genetic-resources/horses-large-zemaitukai/

 

[Elno]

Ignore him. If you look back at his previous posts, there is much history of ignorant, tone-deaf behaviour.

I actually now took the time to rummage through some of them, and yes, based on what I can see I understand that. After reading what he feeds his poor doer of a horse I now have come to the conclusion that he doesn't seem to have much of a clue about basic horse nutrition, and so I can continue to ignore his so called advice and all the rudeness and name calling, and insinuations.

 

[windand rain]

Trouble is he is talking absolute garbage but there is no teaching stupid so I give up I just hope none of the novice owners take his advice and kill there horses with hay. Especially good doers and ponies which are at constant risk even when the weather changes. One point I will agree on is that where possible no horse should spend time in a stable if they are not there on medical grounds. That is often not possible but personally I wouldn't keep horses unless they were out for all daylight hours everyday of the year. I am lucky mine live out but know there is a misconception tht putting them in saves grass.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I actually now took the time to rummage through some of them, and yes, based on what I can see I understand that. After reading what he feeds his poor doer of a horse I now have come to the conclusion that he doesn't seem to have much of a clue about basic horse nutrition, and so I can continue to ignore his so called advice and all the rudeness and name calling, and insinuations.

I agree don't get drawn in.
Just for clarity though, it is not a FACT that horses need to eat constantly, what they need is trickle feeding. Horses have been shown to naturally spend about 16 hours per day eating but that doesn't mean that there are 8 solid hours when they don't eat. If you watch horses living out in the field 24/7 they spend periods of time standing doing nothing very much, maybe sleeping lightly, playing with companions, watching the world go by and then they will wander off and find something to nibble.
This is why I don't like having horses standing inside for hours with nothing to eat but I certainly won't give them so much hay/lagethat it makes them ill, my horses are offered plain oat straw chaff to supplement their hay ration.

 

[Elno]

Trouble is he is talking absolute garbage but there is no teaching stupid so I give up I just hope none of the novice owners take his advice and kill there horses with hay. Especially good doers and ponies which are at constant risk even when the weather changes. One point I will agree on is that where possible no horse should spend time in a stable if they are not there on medical grounds. That is often not possible but personally I wouldn't keep horses unless they were out for all daylight hours everyday of the year. I am lucky mine live out but know there is a misconception tht putting them in saves grass.

Agreed. Mine is out from 8 am to 8 pm, every single day no matter if it snows, hails, rains or storms, sometimes in knee deep snow or knee deep mud, no matter. Horse is always turned out daily unless otherwise adviced by vet.
Like I said before, I would loooove her to be out 24/7 but in Sweden we have laws about horse keeping that state that if the horse is to be turned out more than 16 hours a day and the mean temperature is 5 degrees or less during 24 hours it is not allowed unless the horse has the opportunity to seek shelter in a shed or open stable with dry, clean bedding. I also don't see the point in having them out 24/7 if the turn out paddock is not quite large. In smaller paddocks they generally just stay and sulk and dont move around as much as they would do in a bigger field. In the summer between may and september here, and maybe between march and november in south of Sweden we generally keep them out on pasture 24/7, and if the grass is not enough we of course complement with hay ?

 

[Elno]

I agree don't get drawn in.
Just for clarity though, it is not a FACT that horses need to eat constantly, what they need is trickle feeding. Horses have been shown to naturally spend about 16 hours per day but that doesn't mean that there are 8 solid hours when they don't eat. If you watch horses living out in the field 24/7 they spend periods of time standing doing nothing very much, maybe sleeping lightly, playing with companions, watching the world go by and then they will wander off and find something to nibble.
This is why I don't like having horses standing inside for hours with nothing to eat but I certainly won't give them so much hay/lagethat it makes them ill, my horses are offered plain oat straw chaff to supplement their hay ration.

Certainly not, horses don't even have the same sleep patterns as we do and studies have shown that horses spend more time foraging at dawn and dusk. 16-18 hours spent on eating/searching for food is not implied as a continous chunk of time of the day, but rather split up with just standing, sleeping, playing, mating if allowed and other normal horse behaviour.

Horses also should not be without something to eat (preferably forage) for longer than four hours because of the constant production of HCl in their stomach. Forage, as opposed to hard feed is better at neutralising the acid by the buffering capacity of the saliva, which is produced in greater amount if fed forage, compared to hard feed.


And because of that is what makes having a good doer such a bloody hard job at times, balancing natural behaviour and risk of ulcers, with risk of obesity, EMS and lami ?

 

[PapaverFollis]

I've never seen a vet or nutritionist recommend, never mind insist upon, adlib hay. Having spoken to my vet about the amount my horse could put away overnight I actually got very firmly told the opposite "give her ration and don't worry about it".

While it is wise and laudable to try and keep horses as "naturally" as possible in my view it is also worth remembering that they have been domesticated for quite a long time and put up with all sorts as a species... to the very great success of that species on the whole. So I don't worry too much if it's not perfect either. Mine are stabled overnight at the moment because if it freezes it isn't currently safe for them to have free access overthe hardstanding to the field and despite what the forecast says I've had frozen puddles when it has been forecast to stay above zero. It's not ideal but it's a month or two. They'll get over it. And it's a good opportunity to personalise and limit their hay ration to get some weight off before spring.

I'm also pretty sure actual wild horses don't have unlimited forage over winter ?‍