Thin soles - how to treat?

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saddlesore

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Well as some of you are aware I've been having some on/off lameness issues with my boy. Vet came out, reckons bruised sole so had been treating him for that and all was looking good. Then he pulled a front shoe on wed :rolleyes: and came in like he was missing a leg. Shoe went back on yesterday, he seems ok, maybe not 100% on it, but think he's just still a bit sore. Anyway I was having a prod at his feet and realised I could flex the sole with thumb pressure! :eek::eek:

Not sure what to do now, will speak to farrier on Monday but wondered if any of you had any experince in dealing with it?

He lives out on the rainy west coast of Scotland which probably doesn't help. Is fed adlib haylage in field, and gets small daily feed of happy hoof, fast fibre, equihoof hoof supplement, mag ox and pink powder. Regularly wormed etc and has just been brought back into work after a spell off due to the lameness.

Any thoughts/advice greatly appreciated!
 
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We've had about 6 weeks of rain and it make their hooves so soft. My farrier said to paint the entire soles, including the frog, with Keratex Hoof Hardener as often as you can. It needs to go onto a dry foot though.
 
First, I'm not an expert. I would say that in the first instance it depends why the soles are thin. Is it due to excessive rasping or dietary and possibly shoeing issues? Obviously if rasping/paring is the cause or part of it then that must stop. Thin soles should never be rasped or pared anyway, they need to be allowed to thicken. The sole needs to be kept off stones and tbh I would remove shoes and use boots and pads for work for sole protection and support and to increase circulation in the hoof.
Dietary problems such as too high sugars can cause inflammation of the sole corium (tissue that produces sole) which reduces sole production. If the lamina are also inflammed then the hoof capsule can move in relation to the coffin bone and cause further pressure on the sole. Peripheral loading of shoes also puts more pressure on a thin sole as the coffin bone is above sole. Sole actually grows from tissues that are at the base of the coffin bone.

Here's some articles to read. http://hoofrehab.com/hoof articles by Pete Ramey.htm
Read the sole one for an understanding of sole. Boots and pads is another to read as well as the diet one.

Sorry if I've waffled but I'd go for shoe removal, decent trim with no sole removal/rasping, reassess diet and use pads and boots for work when not in soft, supportive but giving surfaces. Growing a thicker sole will take time...

Ps. Painting stuff on to harden sole will not make it thicker which is what is needed for strength.
 
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Thanks for the replies. Keratex gets a good name so might give it a go. Amandap, he is so so sore with front shoes off that that would really be my last resort atm, however, I was thinking about using boots over his shoes for riding out just now, or is that just silly?

I've never seen my farrier pare his sole, only his frog, but will speak to him on Monday and see if that's true or if I just made it up :o Are there any good feed supplements that might help strenghten them? Also, he is mostly a happy hacker, would that impact on sole growth etc? Would you recommend stabling him to allow his feet to dry out etc?

Really don't know where to start - was so shocked today! :(
 
Painting stuff on just prevents the hoof being able to breathe and often gives you thrush and other fungal issues.

Hoof health comes from diet so the diet is clearly not working for your horse.

If he is losing shoes this also suggests compromised horn, unless they were over due doing.

Of course he was sore with front shoes off, however the only way to really improve the hoof structure is to take off the shoes - they are a rigid object on the bottom of something which is supposed to be able to flex. They also prevent mud/gravel/sand/earth pushing up into the hoof and stimulating it to grow more.

You could bring him in for a couple of hours to allow the hoof to dry out but keeping him in means less stimulation to the hoof ergo slower growth.

Are you doing worm counts and only worming as and when? Excess chemicals are detrimental to overall horse health, damage the delicate gut and therefore affect the absorption of food which in turn effects your hoof growth.

Happy Hoof isnt the best food tbh, contains molasses which we all know is bad for footy feet, pink powder is full of rubbish (see the pink powder breakdown thread i did, and as you are feeding magnesium separately its pointless to feed PP too. Il have a look at the ingredients of your other supp and come back to you.
 
I'm afraid there isn't a magic potion or magic supplement.

However I would say that low levels of zinc and copper will impair the horse's ability to lay down tissue.

A decent supplement with lower levels of iron and higher levels of copper and zinc may do the trick - as well as dropping the Happy Hoof (if ever there was a false advertising via a name!) as you need to avoid any molasses at all until you've fixed the situation.

You can't trim, shoe or rub lotion your way to a healthy hoof. You have to grow one.
If you can flex the sole with thumb pressure it indicates there is not enough tissue under the coffin bone. That is nothing to do with the ground conditions. It's a problem with the horse.

And it's not good.

The horse needs to lay down more tissue asap.

I would say boots is an excellent idea - rather negates the purpose of the shoes however...but if it keep him comfortable then cool.

But please get some minerals into him!
 
Your chap sounds similar to my mare. She has thin soles which seem to be getting worse despite being fed supplement. We have tried her in gel pads in front (she ended up with thrush) and soleguard (which fell out after 2 weeks) - she is back to normal shoes now and is actually better in the winter on the softer ground than on the hard ground in summer. However as with your horse if she loses a front shoe she is crippled. I turn out in overreach boots to try and prevent shoe loss but our fields are mud baths at the moment so there is a high risk of shoe loss. I am also in West of Scotland so similar weather conditions to you.
I really don't know what to try next but am not planning to go down the barefoot route as I don't think she would cope at all well.
She gets shod every 6 weeks before anyone (not you OP) suggests she is losing shoes due to not being shod often enough. And she only gets some chaff plus her supplements (and hay) so I'm not stuffing her full of feed. She is a good doer though which is another worry.

So I'm afraid I'm not much help to you but just thought it might make you feel better to know you're not alone with this problem.
 
Boots over soles will protect the sole. :) The problem with gel pads is you can't remove them so thrush can flourish.

There are comfort pads to go inside boots if needed. Obviously not much good with shoes.http://blog.easycareinc.com/blog/horse-boots-customer-help/easycare-comfort-pads
I believe hoof wraps can help horses with thin soles but if your farrier isn't familiar with them you may need an experienced trimmer. Getting a good trimmer in the short term to support you in a barefoot rehab period is an option...
 
Thanks for all the replies - and good to know that I'm not alone! He is normally shod every 6 weeks, but his feet have been growing more slowly atm so trying to let them go 7 weeks so that there is more growth and the nail holes are further apart. He is turned out with o/r boots on in an attempt to stop him losing shoes. This never used to be a problem, but over the past year he has been losing a shoe fairly regularly :( Hence I put him on the supplement, the mag ox and the happy hoof as it said it contained biotin :confused: I have literally just bought a new bag so will fininsh that first, but what would you recommend I try after that?

What other minerals should he be getting? Zinc? He looks really healthy on the outside -in fact when the vet was out she commented on how well he looked! :eek:
 
LeneHorse what supplement are you using?

You two both need to get your hay analysed and then feed the specific minerals they need rather than trying to blanket supplement with commerical stuff, which is too weak and clogged with fillers to give them what they actually need.

Thin soles is an extremely big problem and also a very specific one which needs getting on top of asap.
 
Sorry if I've waffled but I'd go for shoe removal, decent trim with no sole removal/rasping, reassess diet and use pads and boots for work when not in soft, supportive but giving surfaces. Growing a thicker sole will take time..
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This is really your best advice you'll get. His feet are like that for a reason I'm afraid. You can't "fix" a thin sole you can only grow a better sole, and to do that you need the right building blocks.

It's best to, but you don't actually need to analyse if you don't want to.

If I were you I'd try the Equimins Meta Balance Advance (it's not advertised - it si a barefoot lower iron supplement) and it takes the guesswork out.

As a minimum you need to feed Sodium, Zinc, Copper, Selenium, Magnesium , phosphateand I also boost Vits C, E and Lysine and a few other things

An attractive alternative is Ross and Mel at Progressive Earth on Orkney http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Progressive-Earth who have a blended supplement (I think it's called Pro Hoof or something like that) - again it takes the guess work out.

Neither of these will contain Sodium - but salt is cheap.
 
Thanks TT, I'm on a livery yard so getting thier haylage analysed would go down like a lead balloon I'm afraid. Commercial balancers are about the best that I can do, hence the pink powder etc. What non molassed chaff would you recommned? Is the fast fibre ok?
 
Oh thanks a mill brucea! Will order one of those :) Can you also recommend me a better chaff to use? would you advise using the likes of keratex in the mean time, to protect the thin sole that is there?
 
I suggest you stable at night on clean dry shavings, feed 20gm of biotin, consider researching barefoot, but first you need to get him on a solid diet, forget Happy Hoof as a good thing for feet, its a marketing ploy!
The basic barefoot daily diet is hi fibre low sugar, and additional minerals which must be balanced.
80-120gms micronised linseed meal [Equimins]
0.5 to 1kg Fast Fibre [Allen and Page]
A hoof supplement which will provide 20 gms of biotin plus MgO, available at Equimins, as is advice.
Assume the diet is low in Magnesium, you need to feed a balanced mineral supplement, targeted at hoof growth.
I use Dengie non molasses lo alfalfa chaff
Try to exercise on the road every day to get blood flow and encourage healthy hooves, you must get rid of any disease and have a good farrier.
 
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Miss L Toe said:
I suggest you stable at night on clean dry shavings, feed 20gm of biotin, consider researching barefoot, but first you need to get him on a solid diet, forget Happy Hoof as a good thing for feet, its a marketing ploy!
The basic barefoot daily diet is hi fibre low sugar, and additional minerals which must be balanced.
80-120gms micronised linseed meal [Equimins]
0.5 to 1kg Fast Fibre [Allen and Page]
A hoof supplement which will provide 20 gms of biotin plus MgO, available at Equimins, as is advice.
Assume the diet is low in Magnesium, you need to feed a balanced mineral supplement, targeted at hoof growth.
I use Dengie non molasses lo alfalfa chaff
Try to exercise on the road every day to get blood flow and encourage healthy hooves, you must get rid of any disease and have a good farrier.
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Got to agree on the Happy Hoof comment.

The cheapest linseed is I think from Charnwood Mills who will send it if you are out of range of a feed store that stocks it.

I'm slightly iffy about the Dengie products - I found my one that gets alfalfa does better with the Greengold grown in Perthshire than the Dengie stuff. May be it's lower in sugar. It certainly looks and smells different (fressher somehow) than the Dengie - and it doesn't have any fungal inhibitors sprayed on it.
 
brucea said:
Got to agree on the Happy Hoof comment.

The cheapest linseed is I think from Charnwood Mills who will send it if you are out of range of a feed store that stocks it.

I'm slightly iffy about the Dengie products - I found my one that gets alfalfa does better with the Greengold grown in Perthshire than the Dengie stuff. May be it's lower in sugar. It certainly looks and smells different (fressher somehow) than the Dengie - and it doesn't have any fungal inhibitors sprayed on it.
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Charnwood is the cheapest, but not everyone wants nine months supply, I make up my linseed and minerals once every 120 days, so 10kg is fine for me with one 15.00hh standardbred.
I am not sure you need the chaff, I just like to be belt and braces with a few different fibre sources, and FF is a bit like black porridge.
 
Suggest you take the new bag of HH back or sell it to someone else on the yard.

You just take a few handfuls of the haylege - YO's dont need to know ;) whilst Pro Hoof is good, if this was my horse Id be doing the analysis, thin soles can = no hoof very quickly and I wouldnt be risking a general supp which pro hoof and the equimins ones still are - as you could be high in zinc and low in mag or vica versa and making the one you are higher in high still isnt helpful.
 
Thanks guys :)

Current plan of attack is as follows:

Email equimins and get that supplement, and ask them whether their paint on hoof hardener would be a useful addition in the meantime. Change chaff to something non molassed (although he only gets small handful once a day anyway), leave him in stable for few hours each day and couple of nights a week to let soles dry right out. Keep him in light exercise on good ground only, and all going well will invest in over the shoe boots for stoney ground until his hooves thicken. Will also speak to farrier on Monday.

Seem reasonable? I know I'm not doing everything recommended, but at least I'm starting somewhere! Also, did I read that cinammon is good for feet or did I make that up? :o
 
Agree with most of the advice above, the only thing I'd add is to stay away from keratex hoof hardener - it contains formaldehyde (used for preserving dead bodies
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).
 
Ha ha love your wee green smiley! I've emailed equimins and asked for their advice re their own brand hoof hardener so I'll see what they say. Bloody horses - never used to have so much bother with his bloomin feet :mad:
 
How many times, NO to hoof hardeners! It will damage your already compromised hoof!

Also there is no point in asking a company if their product will help your horses - 99.9% of them will say yes of course it will and bamboozle you with crap to make you buy it because......ALL THEY WANT IS YOUR MONEY REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE PRODUCT IS WORTH YOU BUYING!!!!!

Big thumbs up to the rest though but please please think about the forage analysis.
 
saddlesore said:
Seem reasonable? I know I'm not doing everything recommended, but at least I'm starting somewhere!
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Very reasonable. Keeping the sole safe is paramount and tweaking diet is always good.
Hope your farrier can help too with suggestions. Good luck, you will get there. The main thing is you recognized the thin soles and are acting. :)
 
saddlesore said:
Ha ha love your wee green smiley! I've emailed equimins and asked for their advice re their own brand hoof hardener so I'll see what they say. Bloody horses - never used to have so much bother with his bloomin feet :mad:
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'Never used to have so much bother' So whats changed?

I had a little look at your history to see what lameness issues you were having. Your friends horses hooves were in a bad way weren't they! Hope her horse is on the mend. It did start me wondering, if you guys are at the same yard, that there is something in the grazing that just does not suit the horses? In the thread it was mentioned the fields were fertilized. Is it possible this is the cause of the problems (not asking you directly - putting it out there for all the 'foot' people to answer!)

Fingers crossed you can start to see some improvement with all the suggestions you've had. Good luck and keep us informed of any changes :)

Trina x
 
Trina, I reckon you might well be onto something. My friends horse's feet haven't really got any better and a remedial farrier is now involved. Apparently its been a bad imbalance and his sole has somehow become too thin? Loads of issues up there atm with abscesses - is that land related? Also a few have had white line. That said, there are a lot of horses there and the majority are fine!

In terms of what changed - he moved yards. However, he was fine for about a year, maybe a bit less, so i didn't really link the two. Its the same farrier I use. The fields are fertilised, they are also regularly rested and rotated so they're not over grazed in any way.

It's driving me demented. Having seen how thin his soles have become, that could well be a cause of the lameness. I had him on box rest when the vet came out so his soles were dry and hard then so she only found bruising :rolleyes:
 
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