THINK......AND I MEAN THINK ABOUT THIS

It is an irony that if the horses are sold at auction as riding horses, rather than meat horses, they will make even more money for the Grey family. As nobody has been convicted yet, that is more money to buy even more horses to mistreat. So several horses who were ill and/or underfed went through the stress of being moved, thousands of pounds was raised for their care and the end result is they will make even more money for the Greys, plus face an uncertain future as a result of being auctioned. As a result of the horses being removed, charities were inundated and it is possible that other deserving horses couldn't be helped. All in all, a bit of a mess and a very disappointing outcome.
 
JM07 - i just skim read other posts and saw a lot suggesting they would be better PTS, and i didnt get why? i do think ive mild dyslexia when it come to writing full sentences they often read like gobbledigoop.

in short the whole thing from start to finish is a disgrace but if the horses end up with a second chance then surely thats the main thing, shall we all just nip down to his farm and steal the rest and lock him in a stable with just one bucket of water and see how long he lasts?
 
Well done JM for getting people to think about what is happening.

I honestly haven't read any papers or seen the news other than bits on here but can someone tell me why, when the horses are sold, that the charities that have looked after them and brought them back to health - at great expense I might add, not least because some of the money and items they have used have been donated by us, Joe Public, why the charities should not get the proceeds from the sales or will they be able to put bills in to the court for reimbursement from JG?
 
yes it would inflate prices, but there are many good doers out there, on forums in general the whole amersham thing is huge, but many people dont use them,

im not sure i agree they should of been pts in the begining, if wed known what the out come was then yes may be, but can you imagine the outcry if we were all campaing to get the horses pts after the intial rescue???
 
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why put them to sleep?? why not allow them a chance of a full and good life after the horrors they went through at ammersham, dont get me wrong it would have been much kinder to rehome/sell from the rspca centre im sure they would have sold quickly to people wanting to give them a good home, as going through the sales will be yet another stressful situation fr them to deal with, but i dont see why it would be kinder to kill them than give them the chance of a home, like the other thousands of horses that go through the sales in this country?

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There is no guarantee that they WILL have a full and good life since they are not being rehomed by a Horse Rescue. They're going to an auction where they could quite easily be picked up by the meatman, or some poor, misguided soul who wants to 'save' a horse but has no idea what it entails, cost and timewise. I also find the fact that JG gets the proceeds of the sales utterly obscene!
 
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Well done JM for getting people to think about what is happening.

I honestly haven't read any papers or seen the news other than bits on here but can someone tell me why, when the horses are sold, that the charities that have looked after them and brought them back to health - at great expense I might add, not least because some of the money and items they have used have been donated by us, Joe Public, why the charities should not get the proceeds from the sales or will they be able to put bills in to the court for reimbursement from JG?

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I agree the charities should get the money.
 
well I am for once thinking about buying a pony from a market for company for Flint who is now having to go out alone and who is stressed without another horse. That is whjy I asked wich market etc.
My 2 ponies both served me VERY well for being write offs! one cost me £125 and the other £75...one is now dead, the other still going but just they were owned by the same people after and she still has tomthumb, for the right reasons, horses in sales are not just meat mans treausre, they are also your own.
Flint was passed down the sales from Chesire to melton mowbry-He didnt turned out so bad did he!
 
I never said it would be his horses or ponies. All 3 of my 4, 1 was imported from belgium were bought directly from sales or like flint,m a private seller from a sale afterwards... shouldnt of bought flint the first time around- silly abused horse, shoukd of let the [****] rot... as for me buying ghim the second time from thkose dealers...silly horse...should of let him rot. I will buy ANY horse/pony that is suitable for me and Flint, regardless of whose pockets it is lyning.
 
Well, fine, if you think it's ok to give JG a bit more cash to buy another pony to neglect then you just go ahead and feel all warm and fuzzy for the one you saved. Do you not see how you'd be perpetuating the cruelty? And I'm not saying for ONE SECOND that horses and ponies do not deserve to be rescued, they DO and I would too, but those ponies should NOT be sent back to auction, and HE shouldn't get a penny.
 
so if I left flint with his previous owners to the point of neglect that I was at fault? Yes I might of lined their pockets. so what, got the horse back who is now becoming fit and well. PF- Should I of let them abuse HIM some more, then complain about it afterwards, he was better than some of those horses at amersham and worse than some. If you can let me know of a small pony that is either free to come to my yard next week or to buy for £200 then let me know. If not- I can choose to take the horses or ponies that i want to? Cruel I think not
lining someone eleses pockets- FFS- we do that everytime we buy a horse!
How many of us know EXACTLY where the horse came from, from birth to our ownership?!!
 
I would have gladly rehomed one of them, by means of buying or the adoption fee/donation method via one of the charities....however I shant now as I point blank refuse to line JG's pockets.

Surely before any money whatsoever goes to the Gray family the charities should be reimbursed?

What message is this sending out to others?

I'll tell you what. Don't look after your horses/ponies/donkeys etc, let various charities take them, kind hearted members of the public and the charities own resources will treat/feed them well, high powered media coverage will ensure they're well publicised, then off they go to auction, the care they recieved and publicity meaning you'll get at the very least double what you would have gotten initially, had they still been at your yard.....

And how many in the future are going to get away with it on the grounds that "well Jamie Gray did..."

I'm starting to regret the money that we as a family sent in, only £40, not a great amount, but enough that we noticed it gone by the end of the month....
 
I asked if Henley market was one- I am no more interested in lining JG pockets than I am the markets for his horses or the rescue centeres, I Have donated my bit and thats that. I have my own horse and very large vets bill to take care of
 
Jeez Pete, that's not the same thing at all!! I would've done exactly the same for PF because she's my baby and always will be. But the people who had Flint were not systematic, sadistic abusers like JG and Flint was not fattened up, wormed, vaccinated or had foot trims at the expense of the public and horse charities.
 
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But the people who had Flint were not systematic, sadistic abusers like JG ...

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I'm sorry but that really is defamatory PF. No-one on HHO knows exactly what has or hasn't gone on at Amersham.
 
howe do you know what horses have been fattened up and sold on at market via charities etc? it only because the press has related. Funny bunch we are on here. On the side of the RSPCA then not, people willing to help, then not wanting for fear of lining pockets. Fickle. I will buy from a market unless someone else has a pony for offer to a loving home...otherwise its my only option and sometimes theirs.

Lets put them all to sleep for fear of lining peoples pockets!
HOOOORAY! CAKE for everyone!
that last statement wasnt just for you but for all those who find it easy to say what they say but act little on what they preach

Anyone got a pretty grey welsh for loan, sale ?
 
I believe that the horses who were beyond help were put to sleep. No I don't think the ones who are still useful and saleable should have been put to sleep.

I'm really not sure what is worse; JG's horses who may have lived in the "uncared for" system for some time being brought back to full weight and health, to be sent back to the life they know. Or privately owned, healthy horses being taken to an uncertain future through the auctions by their owners.

JG's horses will probably not be traumatised by going through yet another auction; horses just deal with the here and now, and not yesterday or tomorrow.
 
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But the people who had Flint were not systematic, sadistic abusers like JG ...

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I'm sorry but that really is defamatory PF. No-one on HHO knows exactly what has or hasn't gone on at Amersham.

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OK, well, from the press coverage, they would appear to be be systematic, sadistic abusers, although I accept that may not be the case.
 
He didn't appear to be any of those things in the judge's eyes. Otherwise why would the judge have ordered some of the horses to go back to JG, and why would he have said that the money from the sale of the horses be given to JG and his family?
 
I don't know Tia, I will follow the case with interest to find out. Why were the horses removed from JG's care if they were all fit and well? And if the horses were put right by anyone OTHER than JG I don't see why they shouldn't get the profits from their care.
 
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howe do you know what horses have been fattened up and sold on at market via charities etc? it only because the press has related.

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Ermmm, I seem to recall a lot of people on HHO donating time, money and supplies to the Amersham cause.

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Funny bunch we are on here. On the side of the RSPCA then not, people willing to help, then not wanting for fear of lining pockets. Fickle. I will buy from a market unless someone else has a pony for offer to a loving home...otherwise its my only option and sometimes theirs.

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How many people do think donated thinking the horse they rescued would go straight back to market and not only that, the proceeds would go to the man accused of causing all the harm. THAT's why I said the charities should've been given the horses to rehome responsibly.
Honestly Pete, would you have paid what you did to get Flint back for an unknown horse at market? I don't know how much it was, but I believe it was more than you sold him for?

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Lets put them all to sleep for fear of lining peoples pockets!
HOOOORAY! CAKE for everyone!
that last statement wasnt just for you but for all those who find it easy to say what they say but act little on what they preach

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I will repeat AGAIN that they should be rehomed by the charities involved.
I'm unclear as to what I (or anyone else) is preaching that they woudn't act on
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I don't
 
I've no idea why all the horses were removed as some, clearly, were not in the dreadful condition that the tabloids would have us all believe. Granted, some were not in the best of health; JG's fault? Who knows. I guess someone put 2+2 together and whether that really made 4, is questionable now, particularly in light of the judge's ruling.
 
When did JG buy the horses originally?, what state where they in then and how long were they at his farm. I think thats something that may be overlooked to determine what went on.
 
Hmm well some of my horses came from homes where they had these conditions. I, as the person who, bought them to nurse them back to full health, am most certainly not responsible for them getting into that condition. I am responsible for the gleaming, shining, fit, sociable and healthy horses you see in all of my photos....these, the same horses who came to me undernourished, scared and manky looking.
 
I can't see how JG is going to get loads of money because the court rules expenses can be taken out of the proceeds. Now does that mean legal fees or livery for the horses against their sale?
For the horses' sake they need to be bought carefully and with clear intentions of what happens to them afterwards.
There are so many things that might happen, JG can get his unscrupulous mates to run up the bidding to ensure they make silly money.
They may get bought for silly money by the travelling community merely to be able to boast they have an Amersham horse..
There could be loads of bidders going against each other attempting to save them and really just wasting money doing it.
I think what everyone should remember is the horses are the ones that are important here, not lining JG's pockets, and some method needs to be sorted to allow all that work by the charities and helpers not to go to waste.
Surely someone on here knows people of influence?
All that needs to happen is that judge to make a ruling that the horses are to be valued by an independent valuer such as a market auctioneer, then available for sale prior to the auction.
That way they do at least don't face the trauma of a market, and can be bought by outside parties ensuring people don't bid against each other.
I'm going to suggest this to that daft judge now...
I think the charities should have first option on them, and that way they might not have to even move from their own present homes, the valuer could travel round for his assessments.

Does this sound a possibility or am I being daft myself?
 
I didn't understand why they would remove them all without just cause....

From the pictures I've seen not all of them were 'emaciated'...in fact I didn't a single horse who looked as poor as my poor old Henry....yet the RSPCA apparantly can't find fault with the guy who I bought him off....despite me telling them exactly where to look (the ones in better health were out at the front of the yard by the yard and they were fed-Henry and co were stashed round the back) AND the other extremely poor one, who was skinnier than Henry who the vet scored 1.5, I was told was going to the knackers as it wasn't well, is there. According to Inspector X the man has wormers and feed on his property (so OBVIOUSLY is using it). The guy told Inspectors he's just bought the horses hence them being underweight, despite him having actually bought Henry 10 months prior to me getting him 5 weeks ago, as the transfer slips were in his passport....

Surely then, if this is deemed as acceptable, there must have been serious concerns re; JG and Spindles farm for them to remove all of the equines??
 
HH you are spot on. I go to Henley on a regular basis, I have seen it done a million times. Some one will spot a 'poor, unloved' cruelty case, a starving weanling' and as soon as it goes into the ring £50 worth of pony sells for £500-£600 as the 'ring' spot the do gooder and work it so as their mate gets a well over the market value bid. I've seen them blatantly violating the rules and regs about selling outside the ring. HiA auction has a bit of name for itself in being the last port of call before hitting the plates. Sad but true, its a sorry auction for any horse to end up at.
 
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