thought on the whole shoes/barefoot thing

Just wanted to come back to the nutrition thing.


On the whole barefooters advocate low sugar, high fibre, read the white label and and don't be taken in by the feed companies. I would always point people towards one of the barefoot aimed mixes which have good levels of things like copper and zinc without being dangerous if they don't know the profile of their forage and wouldn't even suggest someone else feeds bran like I do without being sure of phosphorous/calcium levels

I can see why some people are wary of ' amateur's playing scientist and adding all sorts of things to feeds but I wanted to share an recent experience which I think highlights what a minefield feeding can be.

My yard owner who is not horsey got a visit from the feed rep from their supplier. I'm on full livery but I have been feeding bran and speedibeet and supplementing straight minerals on the basis of the hay that is cropped from the land so it's a consistent source.

Anyway feed rep told them their complete feed (chaff based, molassed and already supplemented) is exactly the same as what I am feeding.

Rep told them it had no molasses, I pointed out it was 3rd on the ingredients lists, oh no the feed rep had told them it was a different sort of molasses which was fine for horses, to me that is close to a downright lie.

I mentioned the added iron and maganese to the feed when hay was already very high in these, plus by adding minerals separately I can ensure a consistent level regardless of quantity of feed which varies with workload.

At my previous yard calcium was so high it was off the scale on the analysis and by feeding a mix like this, I'd be adding more.

What qualifications do these feed reps have? People think they are getting unbiased sensible advice and what they are actually getting is a sales pitch.
 
Clava said:
Genuine question - if the horse has thin soles, how does a shoe protect them? All our stoney ground projects in excess of a shoe's depth? and I always thought a flaky sole was dead material exfoliating?
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Lifts them off the surface and stops them wearing away so she can build enough depth of sole that the odd stone doesn't cause bruising, just makes a small dent in what we have. We don't have much in the way of stones anyway, just nice grassy soil which is chalk underneath. I suspect that if we did, she'd need pads. Without the shoes the whole thing is in contact with the ground 24/7 and literally just wears away to nothing. It's more chalky than flaky - with a hoof pick you could pretty much draw in it. Is a little better with all the right supps etc but still not worth the risk. If you compare hers to the others on the same diet/grazing, even the canker pony, very different hooves indeed. Just rubbish genetics really - wouldn't breed from her!!!
 
Pathetic arguments on here, why dont the unshod people (refuse to call it barefoot) stay unshod and do what they want with diets, boots etc and leave the shod people to get on with life and get their horses shod by professional trained farriers.

Wonder how many of the top olympic horses are unshod???? Id imagine they have the best vets/physios/psychologists and all the rest of the checks done that money can buy and they cannot compete if there is even a slight doubt?

My point being just stick with what you are comfortable with, take advice off the professionals (ie your own vet and farrier) and dont try something just becuase it appears to be a fashion/craze. If your horse needs shoes then get it shod, if it can live without shoes and lead a normal life then lucky you, but for god sake use a farrier to trim the feet instead of a so called Barefoot trimmer.
 
lyndsayberesford said:
for god sake use a farrier to trim the feet instead of a so called Barefoot trimmer.
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Sorry but having had 3 very highly qualified farriers lame my horse barefoot by overtrimming him, ( on one occasion leaving him standing in pools of blood) I think I'll stick with my so called barefoot trimmer.

And it doesn't matter what you call it but why do people who have no interest in trying to keep a horse without shoes care so much about what term other people use.
 
lyndsayberesford said:
Pathetic arguments on here, why dont the unshod people (refuse to call it barefoot) stay unshod and do what they want with diets, boots etc and leave the shod people to get on with life and get their horses shod by professional trained farriers.

Wonder how many of the top olympic horses are unshod???? Id imagine they have the best vets/physios/psychologists and all the rest of the checks done that money can buy and they cannot compete if there is even a slight doubt?

My point being just stick with what you are comfortable with, take advice off the professionals (ie your own vet and farrier) and dont try something just becuase it appears to be a fashion/craze. If your horse needs shoes then get it shod, if it can live without shoes and lead a normal life then lucky you, but for god sake use a farrier to trim the feet instead of a so called Barefoot trimmer.
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People should get who they chose to trim their horse it's their horse they should feed it what they want and they should keep it as they want and they ought not listen to someone on the Internet invoking god to get then to use a farrier if they are happy with a trimmer.
As for the Olympic horses they will have turely marvellous farriers and based on the shoes I see at shows every time I go out and about that's not what a lot people have access too.
 
I use a BF trimmer because tbh the three farriers I've had to trim are cr*p. Par away at the healthy frog and sole :( let the heels get underun and dumped the toe. All say "I'll leave the wall higher if you're hacking out" Why?

They grow what they wear and wear what they grow

Not saying there are good farriers I know there are, just I haven't had one who wants to know or knows about working the horse barefoot.

I don't see any pathetic arguments, its all quite interesting.
 
"ordering special minerals to keep them comfortable, ordering in hoof boots, agonising over their diet and lfestyle....."

I like the fact that there is a movement away from commercial foods whose ingredients are mostly unneeded and can be harmful eg starch, mollasses. I shop online for my food, for my dog why not my horse. Ordering in hoof boots - much the same as any other piece of equipment. And as for agonising of their lifestyle - we do whether our horses have shoes on or off. Track systems, less rich grass, more work/ movement is surely better and more natural for the horse, even if they have shoes?

Agree that barefoot does not work for all, but I understand that a horses hoof will be more healthy without a metal shoe nailed into it, although maybe not up to coping with the kind of activity we humans place in it hence the need for shoes.

Tis certainly a contentious area!
 
My thoughts are that as a horse owner you should do what is best for your horse, if your horse needs shoes, put them on, if it doesn't need shoes then great, go barefoot. It does seem to be the barefoot fanatics who have the biggest problem with accepting this. Barefoot really isn't always the answer any more than shoes are.
 
mystiandsunny said:
2) Was sold to me from the field, so in NO WORK at all - out at grass with no stones or anything. Soles were so thin you could see a pulse around the edges, pony extremely footsore even on a smooth hard surface. Not lami. Turned out her sire throws progeny with very chalky, soft, easily worn hooves. Not a problem if they're shod, but it took serious £££ of gel pads and all sorts to get her comfy, then to grow enough sole to be a normal pony. She will be shod all round throughout her life - not risking that ever again! Even on the best low-sugar diet with proper vit/min supplementation etc, the soles are still chalky and easily flake when you're picking out her hooves.
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Did you ever try and keep this pony on a completely grass free diet and see if it improved the soles?
 
As one of the eccentric barefoot brigade, I believe that any nailed-on shoe is damaging to the horses hoof. I absolutely accept that in some circumstances, this damage may be outweighed by benefits, for instance I'm still not totally convinced about the no-studs thing for some sports, and some people may need to shoe at certain times of year etc. I'm fairly sure that most farriers would agree that shoeing is damaging to feet, but again they are doing a cost benefit analysis and concluding that the benefit to the owner outweighs the cost to the horse. There is also obviously a difference between a well shod and a poorly shod foot.
I wonder how those who shoe think about this? Do people accept that all shoeing is damaging, or do they feel that feet that are well shod are as healthy as those with no shoes?
 
lyndsayberesford said:
Pathetic arguments on here, why dont the unshod people (refuse to call it barefoot) stay unshod and do what they want with diets, boots etc and leave the shod people to get on with life and get their horses shod by professional trained farriers.[/quopte]

Errr, we do?

We just come on here to answer questions that people post. Please don't read them if you don't want to know.

lyndsayberesford said:
I couldn't. Two of them told me that my horse, crippled by shoes, would never be able to work barefoot. He evented affiliated 9 months after the shoes came off.

You do realise that most of them are never taught to manage a hardworking barefoot horse during their apprenticeship, do you?
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I have a fantastic farrier (won awards for his shoeing) and both my horses have really good feet, they have been shod all of their lives and i dont have to worry about stony/rough terrain. Call me lucky/unlucky whatever but i would always go off his advice re the feet

Whats good for olympic eventers/dressagers/showjumpers is good for me!
 
skint1 said:
My thoughts are that as a horse owner you should do what is best for your horse, if your horse needs shoes, put them on, if it doesn't need shoes then great, go barefoot. It does seem to be the barefoot fanatics who have the biggest problem with accepting this. Barefoot really isn't always the answer any more than shoes are.
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fully agree! if each agreed to leave the other alone then all would be good. if it aint broke dont fix it!
 
skint1 said:
My thoughts are that as a horse owner you should do what is best for your horse, if your horse needs shoes, put them on, if it doesn't need shoes then great, go barefoot. It does seem to be the barefoot fanatics who have the biggest problem with accepting this. Barefoot really isn't always the answer any more than shoes are.
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You know fanatic is not a nice word to call someone in this modern world I have both shod and unshod horses working but I have to say I see more name calling from the shod lobby than the BF who yesterday where supposed to happy ignore being call hysterical being lifestyle horse owners what ever that means and following ideology .
This morning we had invoking god to get people to use farriers and now they or we if you put me in this group are fanatics .
I just don't get it.
 
Yes you stupid, pathetic, unshod people, get your horse shod and stop worrying about diet and boots.
Just get on with life.
These so called trimmers are the work of the devil.
Lol.
 
Interesting thread. My horse, a TB, has always been shod. I took off his back shoes when I got him and he was fine. Then a farrier convinced me to put them back on, so I did..and they made no difference. Took them off again.

He's always had a half set out of habit, but I am making the transition to barefoot for him next Monday. I'm perfectly aware that it may not work out, but I'd like to try it. When I considered it, I realised that I'd only put on shoes because it was the "done" thing. Farriers have always said he has good, strong, easy hooves. Even our pony, who has tricky feet is barefoot and he has always been fine.

I confess to not being very knowledgeable on hooves at all, but I am very interested to see the kind of progress my horse makes as a result (be it backwards or forwards!).
 
lyndsayberesford said:
Pathetic arguments on here, why dont the unshod people (refuse to call it barefoot) stay unshod and do what they want with diets, boots etc and leave the shod people to get on with life and get their horses shod by professional trained farriers.

Wonder how many of the top olympic horses are unshod???? Id imagine they have the best vets/physios/psychologists and all the rest of the checks done that money can buy and they cannot compete if there is even a slight doubt?

My point being just stick with what you are comfortable with, take advice off the professionals (ie your own vet and farrier) and dont try something just becuase it appears to be a fashion/craze. If your horse needs shoes then get it shod, if it can live without shoes and lead a normal life then lucky you, but for god sake use a farrier to trim the feet instead of a so called Barefoot trimmer.
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skint1 said:
My thoughts are that as a horse owner you should do what is best for your horse, if your horse needs shoes, put them on, if it doesn't need shoes then great, go barefoot. It does seem to be the barefoot fanatics who have the biggest problem with accepting this. Barefoot really isn't always the answer any more than shoes are.
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My argument has always been about stopping the insults like the ones above.
 
Fii said:
Not sure what it has to do with you, as i was "talking" to TallyHo not you, but i havnt been on here since my post last night, and was responding to TallyHo's response to mine, not wanting her to think i was meaning her, OK!!
And who appointed you chairperson??
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Rude
 
Barefoot people who frequently criticize farriers for crippling their horses or just shoeing to make more money, never seem to acknowledge the existence of bad trimmers.

A vet quite recently remarked about the number of cases being referred that were damaged by BT's. I don't know if they were qualified and insured, I didn't ask as I was busy holding a rather opinionated horse at the time.
Do stories of bad trimmers remain a well kept secret in Barefoot circles ?
 
To call barefooters fanatics is just ignorant, I have found they are just ordinary folk trying to do what,s best for their horse!
I have chosen this route as shoeing my horse was crippling him, as for farriers, they are good at shoeing but when it comes to trimming I prefer to use a good trimmer who trims sympathetically to the horse,s needs and supports you with every aspect of a barefoot rehab, I have found this invaluable!
I do also feel that Tallyho has taken a very unfair bashing on this thread, I have had friendly not at all pushy advice from her!
 
horserider said:
Barefoot people who frequently criticize farriers for crippling their horses or just shoeing to make more money, never seem to acknowledge the existence of bad trimmers.

A vet quite recently remarked about the number of cases being referred that were damaged by BT's. I don't know if they were qualified and insured, I didn't ask as I was busy holding a rather opinionated horse at the time.
Do stories of bad trimmers remain a well kept secret in Barefoot circles ?
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Now you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel! The phrase 'of course there are good trimmers and bad trimmers, just like good farriers and bad farriers' is repeated so often on here that it's become cliché.

Now, I say you are apes and maggots, the lot of you.

Someone rudemetre me :D.
 
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