Clava
Well-Known Member
I didn't hack to the saddlers, I drove there in my car while he stood in the field chomping away merrily and trashing his foot.
Lol, my mistake it read as if you had hacked and then the hoof was trashed. Sorry.
thought on the whole shoes/barefoot thing
- Thread starter the watcher
- Start date
Lol, my mistake it read as if you had hacked and then the hoof was trashed. Sorry.
Herpesas
Well-Known Member
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
That is my experience too. Last year a friend brought her horse to us to get ready for a show and then share transport the nest day. Our horses are kept at home, we have no liveries but the friend's horse was staying overnight. He lost a shoe. One phonecall later and our farrier came to put the shoe back on. He has shod this horse in the past but it is no longer one of his customers 9a location problem, not a fall-out). We were lucky that the farrier was in the district but he would have been well within his rights to charge a fortune and didn't.
I do wonder where all these farriers who trim the sole and frog are. We've had 4 farriers in 40 yrs, one who we only had 3 times as we didn't like the shape of the feet he was making, and he was a bit rough with the sensitive horse for our liking. NONE of them has ever trimmed the frog and the only sole trimming I can remember has been to find an abscess/corn.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
horserider said:
You are not looking hard enough. There are loads. I fail, though, to see why I should do your work for you and find them for you. Just try reading some barefoot threads and you will find one on most of them. Search for "sister" on barefoot threads and you'll find the person who has a lame TB barefoot when she is herself a paid trimmer.
horserider said:
We praise where praise is due and criticise where criticism is due. If we don't know of any horses harmed by a trimmer, how can we talk about them?
horserider said:
Lucky you. My experience was farriers who made my horses feet bleed, who told me that they could not work barefoot when they could, who shod a laminitic pony instead of recognising the difference between work worn feet and early laminitis, who turned up late, or not at all, who shod horses who never needed shoeing in the first place just because they turned 3 or 4 and started work, one who took my money when he had not shod my horse at all, and several whose shoeing led to the development of navicular syndrome.
And quite a few fairly decent ones who did sound work on horses which I now realise that I never needed to shoe in the first place, and therefore don't feel strongly motivated to wax lyrical about.
I deplore bad trimming but I do not personally know of any examples where a trim has lamed a sound horse. Every time I hear of one, which is frequently ON THIS FORUM, I comment that it is unacceptable to leave a horse more sore after a trim than it was before it.
horserider said:
I told a farrier the other day that he charges too little for a trim and he agreed that this is true.
I agree that it is grossly unfair to genuine farriers to suggest that they shoe horses because they get more money for it. But we don't. It is not grossly unfair to criticise the many farriers who continue to shoe solid-footed ponies and cobs who they must, or if they don't certainly should, simply do not need shoes with the small amount of work that they are doing. There are far too many of them.
horserider said:
Hallelujah!!!!
horserider said:
Who are these mythical people that you keep on and on and on and on and on talking about?
They do not exist on this forum.
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soloequestrian
Well-Known Member
But if you look at the question the poster was answering, it was
DO THOSE WHO SHOE BELIEVE THAT SHOES DAMAGE FEET?
Obviously good farrier is better than poor farrier, but I want to know how many of those who shoe believe that shoeing does not damage feet at all?
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
IMO - and I don't say 'barefoot' thats what my children do but I have horses both unshod and shod - there are loads of people on this forum who think that if you shoe your horse you are a substandard owner. I would prefer to shoe my horse and turn it out on my unfertilised old ley that not shoe a horse and keep it in a stable or a yard.
My farrier is fantastic and has talked my out of putting shoes on in the past when I would have done.
Saying that shoeing horses can lead to navicular...presumably there are unshod horses who also have navicular? Is it not like the MMR vaccine and autism as in some would go on to develop problems anyway? The same horse can never be managed identically both shod and unshod at the same time with identical stresses on it.
My farrier is fantastic and has talked my out of putting shoes on in the past when I would have done.
Saying that shoeing horses can lead to navicular...presumably there are unshod horses who also have navicular? Is it not like the MMR vaccine and autism as in some would go on to develop problems anyway? The same horse can never be managed identically both shod and unshod at the same time with identical stresses on it.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I until last year always had my horses shod I am in my fifties and have had horses since childhood I always believed that shoes damage horses feet it was what I was taught as a child teenager and young adult when many of the horsemen and women guiding me where of an age where they could remember horses as transport and working in agriculture . We where taught that horses need a break from shoeing yearly about 12 weeks the horses where I was were turned onto a hill it was a moor really .
I remember a big two year old who lame in his stifles he was turned into a field that was basically a steep hill with a pony he came back sound .
So many of these old things where now what we coming round to seeing the sense it there was of course a lot of bad things to.
Perhaps damage feet is the wrong word I knew shoes are bad for their heels and their walls are damaged by repeated nailing and both heels and walls need a break that what I was learning from these old grooms and hunting people in the late sixties early seventies .
HashRouge
Well-Known Member
In all fairness, no-one is farrier bashing just for the sake of it. People only do it if they've had bad experiences with them - whether or not their horses are shod. Plenty of people whose horses are shod have bad experiences with farriers (and post about it). I had a horrible experience with a farrier when my mare was shod, but once we'd got her sorted out, we carried on with shoes for another two years no problem. My current trimmer is qualified farrier as well as a barefoot specialist, so I have the best of both worlds 
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
In all fairness, no-one is farrier bashing just for the sake of it. People only do it if they've had bad experiences with them - whether or not their horses are shod. Plenty of people whose horses are shod have bad experiences with farriers (and post about it). I had a horrible experience with a farrier when my mare was shod, but once we'd got her sorted out, we carried on with shoes for another two years no problem. My current trimmer is qualified farrier as well as a barefoot specialist, so I have the best of both worlds
That would be perfect a farrier who was a BF specialist you are lucky.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Of course I think it's likely that some completely BF horses will develop navicular in the same way as women who never wear high heeled shoes may get bunions but they are much more common on women that do and people who have never smoked get lung cancer those who eat well and exercise have a heart attack etc etc.
FairyLights
Well-Known Member
Very good post.
hoofguy
New User
Funny how some folk think that shoeing and driving nails is completely bad for a horse and some sit on the fence and some have other more pressing things to worry about!! but ...`and this will poke a response -`if shoeing is un-natural..is`nt chucking a saddle on a horse which may or may not fit then an overweight pilot of which i see a few of on my travels!! going to stress a horses back? anybody had a bad back? you are part of the process.. weight/gravity/load/concussion.. anybody?
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Not sure what this has to do with the issue ,
FWIW I never ever chuck a saddle on my horse ,I fitten them very carefully after a rest I work very hard and spend a lot of money to ensure their backs are strong.
Clava
Well-Known Member
I think some were saying that shoes can be unhealthy rather than un-natural, the saddle and back issues I think are for a different thread.
skint1
Well-Known Member
For those of you who are strong advocates of keeping horses barefoot is there a point where you would give up on it and think "this horse is actually more comfortable in shoes"?
Clava
Well-Known Member
Totally, when my TB went very footy following worming, it was the best option until the wormer was out of her system. For other various reasons I put fronts of for a couple of shoeing, they will be off again in 5 weeks as during the winter her hooves cope fine.
skint1
Well-Known Member
See I like that, it shows a balanced approach that takes the needs of the horse into account.
Holly Hocks
Well-Known Member
My horse was diagnosed with a number of conditions which I won't go into with you. I was advised to PTS or keep her as a companion. She was broke. I went barefoot. She is fixed.
If she hadn't gone lame though, going barefoot would never ever have crossed my mind. And that isn't to say I wouldn't put shoes on in the future should the need arise. However I would do anything to fix my horses - but then maybe I don't see them as disposable as some do.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Yes definatly but I would still take the off twelve weeks a year as a min.
I would also shoe if the horses job was such that it was difficult to manage BF.
OH hunter is working BF at the moment I will shoe him for hunting .
I would have said until this year I would shoe if they where so senestive to grass that they could not be turned out a lot but this summer I have come to accept that it's best to deal with the reasons for this when I actually met the issue in real life.
And muzzles I won't use them.
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
Not with my current horse, his feet got worse and worse in shoes despite the best farriers I could find doing their best and got lamer and lamer. If it hadn't worked for him it would have been a case of admitting we'd come to the end of the road.
As for any I might get in the future, never say never however I might try hoof boots first.
mystiandsunny
Well-Known Member
Interestingly, I spoke to one of the UKNHCP people on their stand at Your Horse Live a couple of years ago, about my unshod TB. She was struggling to cope with the increased workload (hacking, often on stony tracks) and I wanted to find a hoof boot she could wear behind, as when she's tired she knocks the hooves together and twists the boots I've tried. The guy said that in that case she might be better off shod - that the increased work would be doing her good and to shoe rather than decrease it. His name was Nic I think - was the guy in charge on the stand. I thought that was a very balanced view of the whole thing - putting the horse's health first. As it was, work got in the way and we did less so she's still shoe-less, but I've not forgotten what he said...
Mrs B
Well-Known Member
I have considered barefoot for my 15.3 IDxTB 17 year old gelding. He grows very little hoof, although what he does grow is good quality having been on Farrier's Formula since 2005. It took a year to show a result and we're now 7 years on.
He is 'footie' without shoes. He is fed a small amount of Greengold, Lucie Nuts and Total Eclipse, he has hay in winter and he lives on 3/4 acres with 3 others, which is rotated with another similar sized field.
He is shod, he is sound and above all, he is happy and he moves beautifully (gamy leg allowing) and with obvious pleasure - a real 'look at me' character.
But that word 'happy' is the most important one for me: I would not put the poor lad through the discomfort of taking his shoes off, taking him off his field with his mates to a bare area and messing with the 'as close to natural' life he enjoys, simply for the sake of an experiment. For his hoof-health, the restrictions may be great. For his mental health, (which for me trumps hoof-health), they would most certainly not be.
Barefoot advocates sometimes say that shoes 'mask' problems. I say: "So what, if the horse is happy?" I could persevere and take my own shoes off, follow whatever diet hardened the skin on my feet, start a new regime to get my bare feet 'used' to hard work on different terrain and push through the discomfort, the pain and the change of lifestyle... for what? The knowledge that the blood-flow to my feet is better and I won't get corns?? My shoes may mask 'problems' in the purest sense, but am I going to go without for the sake of my corns? Hell, no! I like my life as it is!
We have to remember too how much we have interfered with horse breeding to take them away from the native breeds. We wanted them big and fine and that's what we've got, with all the associated inbuilt defects.
But I digress. The only horse I really care about is mine, and I will make my decision according what I feel is likely to make his life the best quality possible.
So.
To all those whose horses work well without shoes and are happy to do so: brilliant.
To those whose horses work well with shoes and are happy to do so: brilliant.
What sticks in my craw is when bare footers try to tell me that I am somehow less knowledgeable, caring, enlightened or educated by shoeing my horse. If there's one thing guaranteed to make me spit tacks, is being told I don't have my horse's best interest at heart.
He is 'footie' without shoes. He is fed a small amount of Greengold, Lucie Nuts and Total Eclipse, he has hay in winter and he lives on 3/4 acres with 3 others, which is rotated with another similar sized field.
He is shod, he is sound and above all, he is happy and he moves beautifully (gamy leg allowing) and with obvious pleasure - a real 'look at me' character.
But that word 'happy' is the most important one for me: I would not put the poor lad through the discomfort of taking his shoes off, taking him off his field with his mates to a bare area and messing with the 'as close to natural' life he enjoys, simply for the sake of an experiment. For his hoof-health, the restrictions may be great. For his mental health, (which for me trumps hoof-health), they would most certainly not be.
Barefoot advocates sometimes say that shoes 'mask' problems. I say: "So what, if the horse is happy?" I could persevere and take my own shoes off, follow whatever diet hardened the skin on my feet, start a new regime to get my bare feet 'used' to hard work on different terrain and push through the discomfort, the pain and the change of lifestyle... for what? The knowledge that the blood-flow to my feet is better and I won't get corns?? My shoes may mask 'problems' in the purest sense, but am I going to go without for the sake of my corns? Hell, no! I like my life as it is!
We have to remember too how much we have interfered with horse breeding to take them away from the native breeds. We wanted them big and fine and that's what we've got, with all the associated inbuilt defects.
But I digress. The only horse I really care about is mine, and I will make my decision according what I feel is likely to make his life the best quality possible.
So.
To all those whose horses work well without shoes and are happy to do so: brilliant.
To those whose horses work well with shoes and are happy to do so: brilliant.
What sticks in my craw is when bare footers try to tell me that I am somehow less knowledgeable, caring, enlightened or educated by shoeing my horse. If there's one thing guaranteed to make me spit tacks, is being told I don't have my horse's best interest at heart.
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YorksG
Over the hill and far awa
This post was interesting, until I saw the last twelve words, this rather shows the point that other posters have made throughout this thread, the holier than thou attitude of some of the people who advocate barefoot as the only way to keep horses, they care so much more than those who shoe and thus see their horses as disposable. It is unneccesary and says an awful lot about the poster, in my opinion.
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
Not yet in MY journey.
However my journey is different to yours and anyone else's.
If someone wishes to follow me, I am more than willing to extend my hand.
AngieandBen
Well-Known Member
Agree, We all want whats best for our horses and I've not seen a post anywhere on here where the owner has thought of their horse as disposable, a totally unecessary thing to say
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
Do you really think so? If you put that in to context and asked the poster who she meant by those words, perhaps we would see different things.
There ARE people who shoe to mask issues. This doesn't include ALL people with shod horses.
Why do remarks like that give licence for insults towards barefoot brigade? It's as if every little thing is being watched just so it can be jumped upon and ripped apart by those who feel aggrieved by some non existent "Taliban"
Absolutely crazy.
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AngieandBen
Well-Known Member
Not for Ben, although he was comfortable in shoes, it was more to do with being shod, he was terrified
I have had Turbo shod for a few months of the year ( probably about three times over the last 10 years) simply so I can ride him like the clappers in summer to keep the weight off! Now he does well in hoof boots.
YorksG
Over the hill and far awa
As said in my post it speaks about THAT poster, also as I said about SOME of the people who advocate barefoot, and the context is this thread! Why do those people who advocte barefoot who feel that they are jumped on and ripped apart quite so defensive? I made it perfecty clear that I was not aiming my comments at all those who advocte leaving their horses unshod, I made no comment about a brigade or taliban, those are your comments and your imagined slight.
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
Be great to know who these people are. It's really embarrassing that the barefoot weirdos make you feel that way, and so many others of course. That way we can report them and stop this awful discrimination against people who shoe horses.
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
Perhaps so. Maybe it would be useful to name people because I get paranoid that you are talking about me because I am a barefoot fan.
I mean, I ride well shod horses as well as barefoot ones, but I believe that barefoot is a good thing.
It's not difficult to take it the wrong way. D you know what I mean yorksG? Say something often enough and it becomes gospel
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