thought on the whole shoes/barefoot thing

tallyho! said:
Perhaps so. Maybe it would be useful to name people because I get paranoid that you are talking about me because I am a barefoot fan.

I mean, I ride well shod horses as well as barefoot ones, but I believe that barefoot is a good thing.

It's not difficult to take it the wrong way.
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Well given that I had quoted the poster, who was not you, I fail to see how you could possibly have thought it was about you. Well I can think of reasons, but not particularly cogent ones :)
 
YorksG said:
This post was interesting, until I saw the last twelve words, this rather shows the point that other posters have made throughout this thread, the holier than thou attitude of some of the people who advocate barefoot as the only way to keep horses, they care so much more than those who shoe and thus see their horses as disposable. It is unneccesary and says an awful lot about the poster, in my opinion.
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Here you are... Now, please tell me the whole of that was aimed at a singular person. You highlight a post but expand it to include A larger group by saying "the people who advocate barefoot". That surely includes myself. I am an advocate. Then, you say "they" ... Who do you mean by "they".

As a collective who feel rather got at by the shod mafia (joke by the way) I am rather perturbed at the incessant insults. I just feel I need to keep pointing them out :)
 
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tallyho! said:
Here you are... Now, please tell me the whole of that was aimed at a singular person. You highlight a post but expand it to include A larger group by saying "the people who advocate barefoot". That surely includes myself. I am an advocate. Then, you say "they" ... Who do you mean by "they".

As a collective who feel rather got at by the shod mafia (joke by the way) I am rather perturbed at the incessant insults. I just feel I need to keep pointing them out :)
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You perceive insults towards a whole group where there are none. I do wish YOU would stop misquoting. I had made it clear that I was referring to some of the people who advocate keeping horses barefoot. Now if you are including yourself as one of the people who believe themselves to be holier than thou, that is your choice.
 
YorksG said:
You perceive insults towards a whole group where there are none. I do wish YOU would stop misquoting. I had made it clear that I was referring to some of the people who advocate keeping horses barefoot. Now if you are including yourself as one of the people who believe themselves to be holier than thou, that is your choice.
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That is true and I agree with you actually. My point is, you are tarring us with the same brush by posting what you have posted. I haven't misquoted you. I have quoted the bits which largely include a group you may have insulted.

If you don't mean it, then why do it?

This is why I got so upset earlier in the thread. If you intend on on insulting one person, then say so. Which actually you have. But still, it extended inadvertently to a wider group. Didn't it. Oh well. Never mind. Hope we can forget it and move on. Not end of world :)
 
For the final time, I posted that SOME people who advocate barefoot have a holier than thou attitude, this does not mean all advocates of barefoot have this attitude, that is what SOME means in this context. If you wish to be insulted, then feel free to be insulted, I insulted no-one, merely stated my opinion of SOME peoples views, but you wished to feel insulted, your choice.
 
YorksG said:
For the final time, I posted that SOME people who advocate barefoot have a holier than thou attitude, this does not mean all advocates of barefoot have this attitude, that is what SOME means in this context. If you wish to be insulted, then feel free to be insulted, I insulted no-one, merely stated my opinion of SOME peoples views, but you wished to feel insulted, your choice.
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Hmm. Ok.
 
It is true Tallyho!, you have misquoted YorksG who has made a valid point. There is one poster on this thread who has dismissed all arguements for shoeing so far and, in a brief search of posts they've made on other barefoot threads, it does seem to be their permanent stance on this debate.


(it's not you by the way! :D)
 
hoofguy said:
`if shoeing is un-natural..is`nt chucking a saddle on a horse which may or may not fit then an overweight pilot of which i see a few of on my travels!! going to stress a horses back? anybody had a bad back? you are part of the process.. weight/gravity/load/concussion.. anybody?
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Two wrongs don't make a right, do they? Shoeing a horse who does not need shoes has stuff all to do with putting an ill fitting saddle on a horse. I would no more put an ill fitting saddle on a horse than I would put shoes on it when it does not need it.

No, it's not natural to saddle or ride a horse. But I keep my horses to ride, so I saddle and ride them. They don't need shoes for me to do that, so I don't shoe them.

I don't get your argument at all, sorry :(

skint1 said:
For those of you who are strong advocates of keeping horses barefoot is there a point where you would give up on it and think "this horse is actually more comfortable in shoes"?
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Of course. If I found one, but I haven't yet found one, including one that was due to be put down and had the appointment booked, and one that two farriers told me would never be able to work barefoot. I am very lucky to be able to control to the tiniest detail the way my horses live and what they eat. This isn't possible for people in a livery yard, or people who work full time.

I'm not actually a strong advoctate of "keeping horses barefoot" so much as an extremely strong advocate of "not shoeing horses who do not need shoeing", and it's my opinion that there are still far too many of those in this country at the moment.

YorksG said:
This post was interesting, until I saw the last twelve words, this rather shows the point that other posters have made throughout this thread, the holier than thou attitude of some of the people who advocate barefoot as the only way to keep horses, they care so much more than those who shoe and thus see their horses as disposable. It is unneccesary and says an awful lot about the poster, in my opinion.
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I completely agree with you on that YG, the comment appears to be deliberately inflammatory and spoils the discussion.
 
tallyho! said:
Hmm. Ok.
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How gracious!

Herpesas said:
It is true Tallyho!, you have misquoted YorksG who has made a valid point. There is one poster on this thread who has dismissed all arguements for shoeing so far and, in a brief search of posts they've made on other barefoot threads, it does seem to be their permanent stance on this debate.


(it's not you by the way! :D)
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Thank you Herpesas :)
 
Clodagh said:
Saying that shoeing horses can lead to navicular...presumably there are unshod horses who also have navicular? Is it not like the MMR vaccine and autism as in some would go on to develop problems anyway? The same horse can never be managed identically both shod and unshod at the same time with identical stresses on it.
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Horses in shoes seem to develop the long toes, weak heels and toe first landing that are the main prerequisites of long term hoof lameness much more easily than unshod horses. In addition, the vast majority of horses which are in shoes when this happens are brought sound in a few months by removal of the shoes (plus good feeding and a proper work program), leading to the strong conclusion that the shoes were causing or perpetuating the problem.

I know of three unshod horses with caudal hoof lameness. All were caused by inadequate stimulation of the back half of the foot leading to a frog which was not in ground contact, and a toe first landing. Ironically, those horses also looked as if they had grown a "shoe" of horn around their foot, something which many owners, farriers and vets would assume to be a good thing. All three horses were rapidly brought sound with a standard barefoot rehab (one of them with a leading veterinary hospital prognosis after MRI and scintigraphs that it would be unlikely to work properly ever again - walk trot canter sound in under 8 weeks and now jumping for a living)
 
cptrayes said:
We just come on here to answer questions that people post. Please don't read them if you don't want to know.
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Actually all you really do (like the rest of us) is give your opinion. I find this with another forum I go on (beekeeping) it's full of well meaning hobbyists with a few hives who set themselves up as leading authorities. They see their own opinions as enlightened superior knowledge.
 
lazybee said:
Actually all you really do (like the rest of us) is give your opinion. I find this with another forum I go on (beekeeping) it's full of well meaning hobbyists with a few hives who set themselves up as leading authorities. They see their own opinions as enlightened superior knowledge.
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I don't think CPTrayes has set herself up as that at all, she does simply answer questions or gives opinions on what she feels she has information on. I personally have found this information incredibly helpful and I'm sure many others have too.
 
Clava said:
I don't think CPTrayes has set herself up as that at all, she does simply answer questions or gives opinions on what she feels she has information on. I personally have found this information incredibly helpful and I'm sure many others have too.
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You have misinterpreted the post. It was not aimed at CPTrayes but was a general observation.
 
lazybee said:
Actually all you really do (like the rest of us) is give your opinion. I find this with another forum I go on (beekeeping) it's full of well meaning hobbyists with a few hives who set themselves up as leading authorities. They see their own opinions as enlightened superior knowledge.
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Not much point in a forum where no one gives a strong definite opinions that much chance of debate in those circumstances .
Of course some people argue their case with more force than others as in life some people can hold the line of a argument better than others.
Personally I see no point in a forum that exists around a I think this as long as you don't mind type of approach.
However I fail to see why it's necessary to descend to silly insults whether against a group or even worse individual .
 
horserider said:
You have misinterpreted the post. It was not aimed at CPTrayes but was a general observation.
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A general observation aimed at who then? - everyone who posts information about being barefoot? Bit hard to be a general observation without being meaningless then.
 
I think feelings tend to run high because ultimately everyone loves and wants to do the best by their horses, and of course there are many ways to do that. For some people, and to be clear im not referring to anyone on this forum individually, it's hard to accept there's more than one way to do something.
 
lazybee said:
Actually all you really do (like the rest of us) is give your opinion. I find this with another forum I go on (beekeeping) it's full of well meaning hobbyists with a few hives who set themselves up as leading authorities. They see their own opinions as enlightened superior knowledge.
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oooooooh, get you :D!

Get out of bed on the wrong side this morning did you, or are you always this nasty?
 
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Clava said:
A general observation aimed at who then? - everyone who posts information about being barefoot? Bit hard to be a general observation without being meaningless then.
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I would have thought it was aimed at anyone who posts on a forum,about any topic. To interpret it as an attack on CPTrayes would be an example of oversensitivity or even concrete thinking.
 
horserider said:
To interpret it as an attack on CPTrayes would be an example of oversensitivity or even concrete thinking.
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If you quote someone directly and use the word "you" when refering to them it is a fairly obvious conclusion and really to call it "concrete thinking" whatever that is, is quite laughable.
 
Clava said:
If you quote someone directly and use the word "you" when refering to them it is a fairly obvious conclusion and really to call it "concrete thinking" whatever that is, is quite laughable.
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In English grammar it is common usage. If spoken, the accent would be on the word 'You' if directed specificially at someone.
The alternative in text would be to use 'one' instead of a generic 'you', but in practice, it isn't used so much these days.
 
YorksG said:
This post was interesting, until I saw the last twelve words, this rather shows the point that other posters have made throughout this thread, the holier than thou attitude of some of the people who advocate barefoot as the only way to keep horses, they care so much more than those who shoe and thus see their horses as disposable. It is unneccesary and says an awful lot about the poster, in my opinion.
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Sorry YorksG - wasn't meant to be holier than thou - those who know me will know that wasn't my intention. It was really in response to those people who refuse wholeheartedly to acknowledge that barefoot would never work for their horse and some would have their horses PTS without even trying it. There are those who are passionate about barefoot (and I'm not actually passionate about it - it's just that it's worked for my horse). I had to have the shoes taken off my old TB when he got too stiff to be shod, but sadly he never ever adapted, so proof there that it doesn't work for every horse. And there are also those who are adamant that there horse could NEVER manage without shoes, without even trying it. I have seen a number of posts on the forum where people have been at what they see as the end of the line and taking the shoes off has been suggested. The poster has then responded that their horse could never manage without shoes and won't even consider it. all I am saying is that I was also at the end of the line, and whilst it would have been an easy option to PTS, I bit the bullet and gave her one last chance.
If my horse hadn't had the problems she would still be wearing shoes to this day as I was also an owner who considered it a fad and that it wouldn't work - especially having had a TB before which it didn't work on.
Apologies if you thought my original post was inflammatory - that wasn't my intent.
 
Amaranta said:
Just as it is the choice of those who shoe their horses to keep them shod. To be honest, I am a little puzzled as to why you would find the 'if it needs shoes, shoe it, if it does not, then don't' take on things annoying. You ask for freedom of choice and then seem to be trying to deny others the same right to make a choice :confused:
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I'm not denying people the choice to shoe their horse - I'm just saying it is a choice of the owner. No horse NEEDS shoes. They need water, fibre, shelter etc but not metal shoes. A horse might need something if it is uncomfortable. Whether that something is shoes, a lifestyle change (diet / exercise regime etc) or boots is a CHOICE of the owner. By saying to me that my horse NEEDS shoes (and people have) the person is taking my choice away, and that is why I find it annoying. I've never said to anyone their horse needs to have its shoes taken off (even if I have thought it with one or two)!

If someone says that their take on things is that if the horse is comfortable doing its current work without shoes with no major changes to its lifestyle they don't shoe and if it is not then they do, then that is fine and their decision.
 
laura_nash said:
I'm not denying people the choice to shoe their horse - I'm just saying it is a choice of the owner. No horse NEEDS shoes. They need water, fibre, shelter etc but not metal shoes. A horse might need something if it is uncomfortable. Whether that something is shoes, a lifestyle change (diet / exercise regime etc) or boots is a CHOICE of the owner. By saying to me that my horse NEEDS shoes (and people have) the person is taking my choice away, and that is why I find it annoying. I've never said to anyone their horse needs to have its shoes taken off (even if I have thought it with one or two)!

If someone says that their take on things is that if the horse is comfortable doing its current work without shoes with no major changes to its lifestyle they don't shoe and if it is not then they do, then that is fine and their decision.
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I usually don't post on these threads, but in answer to the above we went show jumping on grass today, having watched various horses slipping on the turns I am so glad that I had shoes on & studs all round, so you are wrong as my horse NEEDS shoes so that I can put studs in so we don't slip over when we are competing. I expect to get jumped on now that studs are unnecessary, unshod horses don't slip etc etc, well they were today & I don't fancy a broken pelvis or a lame horse thanks. My exercise regime & diet are fine BTW
 
merlinsquest said:
I usually don't post on these threads, but in answer to the above we went show jumping on grass today, having watched various horses slipping on the turns I am so glad that I had shoes on & studs all round, so you are wrong as my horse NEEDS shoes so that I can put studs in so we don't slip over when we are competing. I expect to get jumped on now that studs are unnecessary, unshod horses don't slip etc etc, well they were today & I don't fancy a broken pelvis or a lame horse thanks. My exercise regime & diet are fine BTW
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So in your case the change in lifestyle that might be required would be stop show jumping, which you (quite understandably) don't want to do. I'm not going to jump on you, since I haven't jumped for years ;) . I'm just saying that your horse doesn't actually NEED shoes in the way that it needs water to drink, you make the choice to show-jump and therefore to shoe in order to have studs. Another owner with the same horse might have different preferences.

I choose to keep my horse barefoot because I prefer the feel of hacking a barefoot horse, the surefootedness and lack of slipping on the roads etc. If that means he has to wear a muzzle sometimes, have less grass to eat, eat a specialist supplement, wear boots sometimes, and generally have his feet, diet and lifestyle obsessed over I refuse to be made to feel guilty or derided for that (not by you merlinsquest, but that was what prompted my original post).
 
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