Thoughts/comments on Burghley vids?

Anyone see Geoff Curran go around on the Jump Jet?
I thought he jumped a fantastic round - very smooth and classy imo.
Although that near fall in the water splash was a bit :eek:!
 
I'm gutted and soooo disappointed that Aaron Millar and Stormstay have withdrawn. What a pity, it would have been so good to have had a local rider (East Devon) do well. He must be gutted. He and his horses did a demo at Bicton College a while back and it was really well worth going to; he has an obvious gift for bringing horses on and giving them confidence and I think even a donkey would've gone well for him! He also has a really good, nice easy way of explaining things as he's going along too.

Whatta shame! We were all gunning for you Aaron. Better luck next time bro!
 
Yay!!! Have you noticed that a 'Pause' button has now been added to the vids?!!! Much better. (Or was it there all the time and I never noticed?!:confused::eek:)
 
We have a pause button!!! How brilliant are the videos? I'm loving the opportunity to watch everything in full.

Good to know that Nicola's out of hospital. I can watch her video now. Not watching Phoebe's again; it scared the living daylights out of me! Was so worried when she didn't get up straight off but glad to see her walking away with her horse.
 
The BBC just showed Georgie Strang's fall and Mike Tucker was pretty open with his views on it.

Glad they're both ok - nasty fall!

ETS: great news re: Nicola
 
Looked like the course jumped really well in general, but it seemed a bit odd, that there were more Es due to falls than due to refusals. No one fence seemed to cause much trouble, with the worst fall at one of the "let up" fences. To the monster oxer at the Maltings looked like it was jumped better than the big table 2 fences before it - maybe the riders respected it more and were more careful with their approach.

Hope the Lithuanian horse is OK - looked pretty sore as it came out of the ditch at the cascades fence.

I thought Ruth Edge was sensible to retire - a big course to get a horse that wasn't jumping well around - same really for Alex Hua Tian - amazing stickability there - shame Fiddle didn't feel quite right to him.

Carousel Quest looked tired in the SJ I thought - hence the fences down. I find the 2nd trot up is really interesting - a couple of tenths off behind seems to be acceptable at the other events I've been to, while they're fussier about forelimb lameness, probably because it's more visible.

Really wish the vids hadn't been quite so delayed - really good for watching selected rounds having seen highlights, but impossible to watch "as live", even avoiding HHO/websites etc to avoid spoilers as you hear the commentary for the earlier part of the course. It's much more exciting not knowing what's happened...

Not that I've seen Georgie Strang/Master Monarch before, but I was wondering if she'd got him fitter and added to the atmosphere which he would have remembered he looked like he was maybe not in so much of a listening mood - he seemed to be making his own decisions/not listening quite a lot of the time - they don't look like they've had problems before, so maybe she didn't expect him to be quite so strong with her.
 
With regard to the 2nd trot up, the horses have to be fit to continue rather than 100% sound. Forelimb lameness is less acceptable than slight hind limb lameness as this is more likely to cause more damage. Obviously more acute hind limb lameness is not acceptable as it is likely to be more deep seated than stiffness in the joints and muscles.
Oli said in his interview that it is hard to get CQ totally fit as he has soundness issues so he probably was tired and stiff today.
 
Just got back from burghley a fabulous event well done to all concerned.

Well done to caroline and at last lenamore had the wing he deserved.

Goinb back to georgies fall and master monach I was at the corner just infront of where she fell can I assure everyone the fall had nothing to do with master monachs age he came in too fast the line was awful and he tried to jump the widest part of the corner, which was asking the impossible.
He fell on georgie and kicked her in the head, bouncing off her air jacket.
Thankgoodness all concerned fine it looke horific.

Burghley was still tough and huge a great weekend
 
nullabor

I can only assume that you think running him again with this girl riding is in his best interests????????

I have to be candid in saying that I found her blog post about "crashing" disgusting. She obviously doesn't get it. Tries to blame the horse, and then does somewhat concede that "maybe she could have steadied him a bit". YOU THINK??????? Since when does riding a 4* involve running a horse as absolutely as fast as he can go at every fence out there with absolutely no support from the rider?

It would be nice if ANY of the adults in this situation would think of the best interests of the horse here. If she literally kills him on course somewhere, it will be to late.

I admit the horse looked great but if you are going to put him out there, at least don't put him out there with someone on him that is endangering his life any more than the sport itself does.........
 
We're all entitled to our own opinions but it doesn't do any good to have people make a new HHO username for the specific purpose of having a go at someone. The girl riding was at her first 4 star - she made a mistake, by the grace of God neither she nor the horse were injured. I'm sure she feels bad enough for having had a horse fall without someone they don't know having a go about endangering the horse's life. And if that's really what you think and you've counted to 10 and you still think it merits saying, what would be wrong with posting under your usual username?

ETA:- there's nothing personal in what I'm saying, just that I've seen this part of the forum lose old respected members by insensitive posting and noone at the time said anything. So I thought I'd say something. By all means, constructive criticism. Why shouldn't the rider learn from her mistakes? To say she should never ride the horse again just isn't constructive.
 
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This WAS my first ever post. I am overseas and have been reading the forums for months, but had never found the way to register, just the log in. This was the first issue to come up that I felt so strongly about I emailed the staff to find the registration link, so obviously, yes, I counted to 10.

I am not sure she thinks she made a mistake. In her blog she clearly is blaming the judgment of the horse, at least in the beginning.

She had numerous near misses before she got there, which obviously had not slowed her down in the slightest, nor given her pause to question the ridiculous break neck speed she was running *AT HER FIRST 4* * as you yourself point out.

Both of these things, I think, lead one to legitimately question her judgment and whether she should, indeed, being running a 4* and endangering her horses life. The horse that died at Badminton had essentially the same fall, getting a leg caught inside an open corner, but broke a front leg. By the grace of God, Ben did not. So, yes, I am not just trying to dramatic. I don't think the horse needs to be placed in a situation where luck is what saved him.

Obviously, I don't know her. I don't know the owner. I just know that a horse such as this, which has obviously given his all for years, deserves to be kept safe in his later years. I am gutted, as you all would say, that obviously the parties involved have chosen to risk this grand horses life for the sake of someones ego. Whether it's the girl or the owner who knows. He obviously still enjoys his job. I would have no problem with him competing at a level where the skill of the rider was not endangering him but it is obvious from Sat that this is sadly not the case in this instance.

If I thought she had a clue how egregious the ride was, or had figured out after the first few times he saved her butt that she was taking the wrong approach, slowed down and actually presented him balanced to a fence, I honestly would feel completely differently. But she didn't figure it out in time, obviously, and then has chosen to either blame the horse, or in the end, blow it off as no big deal, I made a mistake, onward and upward. Maybe you are one of the adults advising her and encouraging that attitude. If so, you are convinced you are right, and this post isn't going to faze you. I didn't expect that it would faze anyone actually involved, but it is all I can do to express my sincere concern for the horses safety, since I am convinced those actually in charge of his safety don't care as much as I do. Maybe they are to close to the situation to sit back and take an unfiltered view of what really happened.

Let's hope he survives her learning curve.

And yes, I know I am being very harsh. The life of this grand horse matters to me.
 
I suppose I'm just aware that at Badminton this year there was a bit of a feeding frenzy over people making very harsh comments about real people with real feelings and it alienated a lot of old-timers on here, people who I'd be sorry to leave the forum.

I don't have any connection to the rider whatsoever, I just don't think that getting berated online actually achieves anything, other than to make the other person feel bad.

I'm sure the selectors/powers that be will have a quiet word as required. It's happened to much more experienced riders before.

ETA: there's also no way of knowing whether "she had a clue how egregious the ride was, or had figured out after the first few times he saved her butt that she was taking the wrong approach". We're not privy to what's been said in private. I've no idea whether she even wrote that blog or whether it was ghost written by a journalist (which does happen), after a interview at a time when she was very busy and hadn't had time to think about it.
 
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equinedriver said:
since I am convinced those actually in charge of his safety don't care as much as I do. .
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Of course everyone involved with this horse care hugely about his safety, dont be ridiculous!! And the fact that both owners and several top riders and trainers are encouraging her to run him again this season shows that they are happy with the way she is riding him and feel he deserves to keep doing the job the so clearly loves. He owes us absolutely nothing and if we felt retirement was right for him there would be no hesitation in doing so.
 
Havent read the whole thread, but i REALLY think Emily Llewelyn rode an absoloute class round with her lovely horse! Dont think her mention of the 2012 olympics is too unrealistic after seeing thier round!... absoloutly lovely!
 
I am honestly not meaning for this to appear to be a tit for tat exchange, but more a comment on a statement.

You said you (we) don't have any idea whether she figured it out. One can only assume she didn't as, as I noted, she did not change the style of her ride after the first couple near misses where the horse did have enough athletic ability to save himself and her when she got him in really long at break neck speed. If she had, she would have slowed down a tad and actually prepared him for a jump instead of just plowing ahead full steam, doing nothing to help him.

I was pretty upset after I watched the ride, but the blog post this morning just put me over the edge. I had been hoping that those associated with the horse and rider would be taking stock about what had happened and rethinking what the best plan was from here on out. The post this morning doesn't give me the impression that there is any rethinking going on. Just full steam ahead........

FWIW, I compete at the highest level of my sport and currently own one of the international horses for the US. I don't ride a 4* myself, but evented when I was younger and do think I have perspective about a horse of this talent level since I have been blessed to own one. I honestly am 100% all for the grand old champions continuing on at *some* level as some really do not like being *retired* and out in a field. They miss the attention etc and are truly happier with a job.

I actually purchased a horse like this to teach me the ropes years ago when I started at the International level. The horse had done 5 world championships for two different countries, but the first time I took him out at that level, I certainly wasn't dumb enough to try to take him as fast as he was capable of going. It would have been dangerous for both of us. I don't think the people in charge of this grand old horse are doing right by him putting him back in to the top level of his sport with a rider that is not looking out for his safety.

Having been there myself, the goal the first time out at the top level, is first and foremost to get around safely, to hell with making the time. If things are going well, and it's doable fine, but you don't sacrifice safety for the sake of time penalties. She had plenty of warning at earlier fences that she was pushing past the safety point and didn't heed the warnings. Fortunately the horse didn't pay the ultimate price, this time.
 
Just adding my two pence worth....

I too was annoyed that Georgie implied that it was MM fault that they had the crash at Burghley.
 
Well... imho she made a mistake, but others made similar or worse mistakes and got away with them. She saw a couple of long ones, and doing the first water in 4 strides was a bit wild (I think I've only seen 1 other so far do that) but she saw perfect ones everywhere else. She says in her blog that she'd been told to ride forward to that one. Maybe not as fast and flat as she did, but still... :( :( :(
She certainly did NOT try to launch him on one stride at that combination, that was his decision. She was sitting up waiting for another stride imho. Sometimes horses make mistakes too. Sorry, but I really do believe that. Often they cover for us, amazingly, miraculously, but sometimes not... I realise that 99% of it is down to the approach, and that is totally the rider's job, BUT even so, sometimes horses make a split-second misjudgement.
Tbh IF he is used to supremely controlled and accurate riding, maybe he just really isn't the best Schoolmaster material, however brilliant he may be or have been. Sorry. Some horses are suited to that role, and others maybe aren't.
I think a lot of experienced horses would have tried to shorten their stride and get 2 strides in there, fwiw, even with an approach like that. Many would have succeeded imho. I'm not saying the approach was great, but it was imho a save-able situation IF the horse had been clever instead of silly-bold.
 
Does anyone remember the half-coffin a couple of years back? The even the TOP PROFESSIONALS made a complete mess of? I feel really sorry for Georgie right now.
 
Horses pushed fast and wild will jump fast and wild when given the oppurtunity, it's up to the rider to present the horse at a pace and direction from which he can jump the fence.
Nullarbor-just curious are you the owner?
 
I think this is a brilliant idea, why cant they do this with all the big international events, I spent all saturday night watching as other half was ill in bed, then highlights on Sunday and again tonight courtesy of iplayer. I'm in eventing heaven!
 
zefragile said:
Does anyone remember the half-coffin a couple of years back? The even the TOP PROFESSIONALS made a complete mess of? I feel really sorry for Georgie right now.
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Oh yes, very clearly... Because I'm 99.9% sure that one of those who came into it a bit fast & paid the penalty with a v silly stop was a certain Caroline Powell, on Lenamore... EVERYONE makes mistakes here & there. Okay, maybe it's not fair on the horses but it's just a fact of life unfortunately...
 
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