Dregish1950
Active Member
I was concerned when i spotted this, which is when I contact my farrier a week before he was due to be shod but it was too late as he went lame during a lesson in the school.
Thrush, Sheared heels, hoof imbalance - Lameness
- Thread starter Dregish1950
- Start date
Reacher
Well-Known Member
I’m no expert but I suspect he lands unevenly due to being toed out and would try filming him slo mo from the front to see how he lands.
ETA agree with others I think I’d be looking for a different farrier and take shoes off
ETA agree with others I think I’d be looking for a different farrier and take shoes off
Gloi
Too little time, too much to read.
To me he looks a good candidate for shoes off for a few months and boots and pads to allow the frog and heels to expand and strengthen
Dregish1950
Active Member
Previously landed toe first, as his shoes are always thin on the toes.
he has in the post fractured his pedal bone and was in spider bar shoes but he has now retired from nice arenas and his very much a happy hacker etc.
I cannot help but feel since the farrier has had an apprentice he’s had the imbalance.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
You need to get a vet on this. See what is going on inside the foot and an evaluation of the foot balance in relation to the limb as well.
Plus an overall improvement in hoof quality, critically evaluate what you are feeding.
Dregish1950
Active Member
he is on the Allen & Page veteran Vitality - 1 scoop in each feed and a handful of mix, along with Biotin added.
Reacher
Well-Known Member
In one of the first photos the white foot looked higher on the outside heel though photos can have optical illusions
As others have said if he were mine I’d be taking him to a decent vet with xray facilities etc
As others have said if he were mine I’d be taking him to a decent vet with xray facilities etc
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
Again, I've been there done that.
I did get x-rays and some of the balance wasn't totally off (from the side, but medial lateral was), but it still wasn't right. The horse had good hoof quality in my case, and transitioned to unshod wonderfully. His diet was always "hoof" friendly though in that it promoted healthy hooves. So it is important to look at that. With mine, it was basically the mechanics being off. Removing his shoes worked wonders.
You need a different hoof professional. For me, I don't care if it's a farrier or trimmer, as long as they do good work. A lot of it is really the trim. If you keep putting a shoe on a shite trim, you will have problems.
I did get x-rays and some of the balance wasn't totally off (from the side, but medial lateral was), but it still wasn't right. The horse had good hoof quality in my case, and transitioned to unshod wonderfully. His diet was always "hoof" friendly though in that it promoted healthy hooves. So it is important to look at that. With mine, it was basically the mechanics being off. Removing his shoes worked wonders.
You need a different hoof professional. For me, I don't care if it's a farrier or trimmer, as long as they do good work. A lot of it is really the trim. If you keep putting a shoe on a shite trim, you will have problems.
Dregish1950
Active Member
I have been searching for a good farrier, I am not hopeful that there are any local. Had the same farrier for a year and he has been fine until recently.
He has improved over the last few weeks. only reservation at the moment is the nail bind and the bruising which i cant help but feel this is the reason behind him been "off" hes not lame in trot just slightly shorter stride with the front right.
sbloom
Well-Known Member
A shorter stride on one side is lame really, it's just our scales aren't good at categorising compensatory movement patterns, which will soon be "actual lameness" in those terms.
Dregish1950
Active Member
He’s improving each day, shorter strides on the lunge but then he stretches out after a while. So I don’t believe it will get worse as each day it’s improving… I mean you’ve got to study and be looking for a problem to notice the difference. At times I feel i am now searching for a problem especially on soft surface.
Reacher
Well-Known Member
You could try asking on here for farrier / BF trimmer recommendations in your approximate location
Gloi
Too little time, too much to read.
Sadly, although he may have .,been sound until recently he hasn't been fine. It has likely taken his hooves months or years to become so bad.
Highmileagecob
Well-Known Member
The tight closed together heel bulbs should not be there - the heel should be wide and strong to support the foot. I appreciate that you are treating thrush, but with all the gubbins the farrier has nailed on you are unlikely to do anything meaningful. And the foot cannot expand and contract with movement to improve the blood supply and allow the frog to start working as it should. No offence to farriers, but they are trained to fix issues with shoes, not fix the problem. Your horse is heading for navicular changes, and I would second getting x-rays done and speak to a good trimmer or podiatrist about long term rehab. Take a look at Pete Ramey's Hoof Rehab site and read up on the case notes regarding long term shoe use. It's never too late to start rehab. but finding a farrier to hold your hand through it could be difficult. Good luck, I hope you can sort things out.
Nudibranch
Well-Known Member
I sympathise because I was stuck with years of less than ideal farriery. There was one technically excellent bf practitioner but when he beat the crap out of my young horse for "trying it on" because he couldn't hold his hinds up I got rid. (Horse was eventually pts at 7 with multiple issues; he was not trying it on.) Anyway I had the best available farrier but even then I was never 100% happy. Unfortunately the only way to resolve it was moving 200 miles! But...I now have an excellent farrier who is totally tuned in, assesses everything at every visit and is also supportive of unshod and booted. There are some very progressive farriers out there who are pro barefoot- or actually, pro whatever works best for the horse. I just can't tell you how to find one! If you happened to be on the Welsh Borders I could definitely recommend one but the chances are slim.
Long story short in your situation I would somehow try and find an alternative farrier, especially if you can pin the issues on the apprentice taking over. I would absolutely look at taking shoes off as well. Boots these days are fantastic so you don't need to stop work.
Fwiw I would avoid lots of work on artificial surfaces as well as if you have any soft tissue or ligament changes happening, it's not going to help. Shoes off, good trim, in hand or ridden work avoiding lots of circles, hacking out on tarmac and over varied terrain. Whether booted or not. All these strengthen the hoof and just as importantly the muscles, bones and tendons above.
Long story short in your situation I would somehow try and find an alternative farrier, especially if you can pin the issues on the apprentice taking over. I would absolutely look at taking shoes off as well. Boots these days are fantastic so you don't need to stop work.
Fwiw I would avoid lots of work on artificial surfaces as well as if you have any soft tissue or ligament changes happening, it's not going to help. Shoes off, good trim, in hand or ridden work avoiding lots of circles, hacking out on tarmac and over varied terrain. Whether booted or not. All these strengthen the hoof and just as importantly the muscles, bones and tendons above.
Dregish1950
Active Member
He has previously had his coffin joints infected I suspect 3-5 years ago. He’s been with me for 1.5 years… his owners suggest treating these before X-rays.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I cannot say how much I think you need some input from a good vet .
Landcruiser
Well-Known Member
OP, please please please try to look at Pete Ramey's Hoof Rehab, or the hoofgeek site. Have a look at healthy functioning feet. Despite being previously "OK" and seemingly "improving" now, these hooves have multiple long term issues. The heels have dropped, contracted and run forward, leading to the contracted frogs with deep thrushy sulcii. Look at the hair line in the pic below- the hoof has essentially collapsed, and the x rays are likely to show negative palmar angles. This means the weight of the whole horse is being carried behind where it is designed to be, which can/will lead to all sorts of other issues. None of this is recent and none of these shoes will fix any of it. As multiple others have said, a period out of shoes is the very least this horse needs. Ideally boots with pads, lots of movement, a good mineral supplement, low sugar/starch diet and a good hoof practitioner on board.
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Dregish1950
Active Member
The vet is coming tomorrow, As much as he does have hoof issues I believe the lameness maybe related to coffin joint arthritis.
He was xrayed and treated 5 years ago. He’s been with me 1.5 and never been treated as I was unaware until recently.
Will see what the vet suggests.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Good you should ask the vet about arthimid ( or similar ) for coffin joints you could steroid followed by arthimid as well if the coffin joints are the issue .
Dregish1950
Active Member
I hacked him out the weekend round the block, was sound but when we got back he was striding short and was uncomfortable. Went to check him 4 hours later and he was walking much better. My farrier doesn’t believe it’s his feet. He’s recently been towed out on that particular hoof and the lameness varies. Also possibly a bit fuller around coronet compared to pictures taken 6/8 months ago.
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
Your farrier let the feet get like this though. They are incredibly sick feet. There may well be arthritic issues,but there's definitely hoof issues going on. The horse is probably appearing sound as its bi laterally lame, then work makes him more visibly lame and then with some rest it eases off again.
Dregish1950
Active Member
I’ve changed my farrier he’s starting in January.
Fransurrey
Well-Known Member
Great news about new farrier. Out of interest, was it the old farrier who used the term sheared heels? I can only see collapsed, contracted heels in these pictures, which should come right with corrective trimming and thrush treatment. Appreciate as @ycbm says, some are using the term more loosely, but there's barely a hint of shearing in any of those pics (shearing to my understanding means sideways shift, like when you take a stack of cards and push some of them over, making the stack off centre).
Good luck with the vet, too!
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
You need a work up to try to pin point the issue or issues which it may well be .
I would try to be there for the first one I would expect the vet to do some trot ups some flexion and some lunging on the soft and hard.
Then talk and decide what steps you take next .
Nerve blocking is likely to be needed and as I said be ready for it to be more than one issue.
I would try to be there for the first one I would expect the vet to do some trot ups some flexion and some lunging on the soft and hard.
Then talk and decide what steps you take next .
Nerve blocking is likely to be needed and as I said be ready for it to be more than one issue.
Dregish1950
Active Member
So there was movement in the heel bulbs only slight, these were resolved within the shoeing cycle. He’s on a religious 5 week routine. It was my current farrier that said sheered heels. He has been thrush free since as it’s been managed since.
Dregish1950
Active Member
Thank you, very well aware of what’s to come I will just be glad to help him be more comfortable.
Dregish1950
Active Member
You are probably right, every now and then he looks uncomfortable on the other leg. Will be keen to see what the vet recommends/advises.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I am sure there will be ways to help your horse
You need to find and understand the issues first .
You need to find and understand the issues first .
Dregish1950
Active Member
I am hopefully, will update tomorrow.