Timewasters - need a rant!

[Kylara]

I've really rather had it now. I've got a few livery spaces at a lovely yard and have had some interest, I'd like more but nothing I can do about that! However I am utterly utterly fed up of timewasters who enquire, usually vaguely, and then never respond, even with a 'no thanks' or 'thanks for the info but not for me' or whatever. These same people then comment again when I state I have spaces and then fail to reply, again! There is one lady on fb who has messaged me 3 times and 3 times I have replied with more info and price and 3 times she has seen and ignored.
Have had people sound interested and say they would like to view. And then never confirm a date or time, people who do confirm but don't turn up which means I have wasted an awful lot of my time and changed my routine for nothing. People who say 'oh can I come on x day' and I reply yes what time only to have an 'ok' and then surprise surprise don't turn up. And my least favourite, the people who view, see how lovely it is, and then are unreachable - just say no! Or they chat at the end and ask what price DIY is even after I stated to them PRE visit that I only offer part and full and no there is no option at all of DIY.
Not to mention the people who seem confused as to what constitutes a horse in neighbouring field (my small field has a walkway between it and other fields but is 5 metres from my barn and horse can see inside the other barn) as apparently the 4m between the fields means that their horse wouldn't be able to 'see any other horses'. That field is fantastic and even the most unsettled horses settle in it. A friends horse (not on my livery) went in it for the morning and he stayed out and happy until he was brought in, which is amazing as in his usual field he is unsettled after half an hour and has to come in.

Argh! Just so frustrating as I really need these spaces filled. The yard is gorgeous, facilities fab, trainers everywhere you throw a stick, no limit on what vet/farrier etc you use, everything is alarmed, heat lamps, hot wash, giant stables, walker, on and off road hacking, all year turnout. I just don't know what is wrong with people.

Do all YO get messed about this much?!

Fell a bit better after that gigantic rant. Scones and clotted cream for everyone who finished it!

 

[SusieT]

If you keep getting people coming and not taking it either you come across as a problem (and a horse in a barn isn't the same as a horse in a field next door) then maybe you need to re examine your approach to the people.

 

[Kylara]

Well there are a good bunch of fields in the other side of the 4m not field which leads to even more fields

I'm nice and approachable, likeable. I'm always friendly and chatty and try to be as flexible as possible.

 

[Archangel]

Sounds like a lovely yard so it is odd that people are being so unreliable - you could just be having a run of bad luck or something in your advert is attracting the wrong people for the yard (you know, Facebook people ) - do you have a website that they could have a good look at before phoning? That should weed a few timewasters out.

Scones and clotted cream - yum

 

[Kylara]

Yup, good website with lots of details. There's a possibility people are just coming to be nosey - it is that sort of yard, and next door barn has international eventer in as well. It is a very nice yard

 

[gnubee]

Does dound a bit like to have so much 'bad luck' something must not be quite as attractive as you think it is. Could be the way you come across I'm written communication or that the price isn't what people are expecting or any indication large number of other factors. There are always people who are window shopping, disorganised, don't know what they want or can't get their act together, but to manage to have so many fall by the wayside makes me think getting some impartial advice on your offering and aporoach might be the way to go if you know the right person to offer you that.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I think it's just how many people are unfortunately, it drove me mad running a livery yard I just felt you can never please everyone no matter what you do, I think a lot of people now only want diy they don't want to fork out for part or full livery, I ended up just taking some diy liveries just to fill the stables but then you end up making no money as they don't use the facilities that get charged for which is why I have up in the end

 

[Wagtail]

It does sound as though some of the people enquiring are just being nosey or perhaps they are rival yards even. Usually, if I have an enquiry then people do arrange a viewing and I have never had someone not turn up when they have arranged a viewing. The ones I dislike are the people who turn up unannounced. It is a small private yard and I don't like unannounced visitors. I usually say I'm full even if I'm not, and send them on their way. It's a funny business though, livery. When I'm full I seem to get endless people enquiring, and when I have space, then it can go quiet for weeks then I'll get several really keen to come in a short space of time. I also think that people should get back to you either way, but they very rarely do. I always get back to people either way on things. It's only polite. I never chase people up though.

 

[Kylara]

Part of the reason is people tell me they are interested and ask for assisted diy which I don't do, I tell them price and what's included for my part livery (everything bar full groom and exercise) and they sound interested and call, have a chat etc. Had a couple turn up and say how nice but they turned up at gone 6 when both barns are done for the day and the overnights are out, only to complain about how quiet it is and not many horses (must be a good 21 horses here). Barn 2 is a pro eventer, my barn is shared with owner who is a racing trainer and then there's me - schooling/competing with some liveries. So all 3 bits are Pro yards that are very busy in the day (but in a nice relaxing sort of way) and quiet in the evenings but there are so many diys around that there are loads of people hacking out and schooling etc. So best of everything really!

Maybe it's because I'm tiny and look 12 (with boobs) I don't inspire confidence :/

Just so frustrating, the yard should speak for itself it's so nice (so am I!). Had one who got back to me who decided to go just down the road on diy/assisted which is £40 less than my part and that was why. Not that diy and part are really comparable but at least they got back! I also offer bespoke to help out with budget etc so can knock money off if muck out at w/e etc. Sigh.

So frustrating as I could really do with the extra liveries! Making no money at all at the moment as rent and stuff etc is not cheap and the 2 liveries in at the minute are only just covering the rent. One livery is abroad so not much help with spreading the word

Got heated rug rails, washing machine, storage for everyone's crap, giant arena, rubber matting, bedding and ad lib hay included, it's beautiful here.

Anything I'm missing off when advertising? What do people look for? What do people want!?

 

[Frumpoon]

Probably its horsey country down there so people are spoilt for choice, if you were in Midlands near us you'd be fighting folks off with a stick, it sounds idyllic

 

[Summer pudding]

I'm appalled at the bad manners, not turning up etc. I'm on a very smart yard that only does full livery and we usually have a waiting list. However we are the only smart yard for miles so is this a factor for you in reverse - too many good yards? We also find nobody wants to move at this time of year but come the end of the summer hols there are lots of enquiries, as there are in the Spring. As for advertising, We have a very good website with lots of fab pics. Are you charging more than people want to pay? Although our yard is beautiful I'd happily move to one that offers all year TO..so that's a biggy as is horse walker, have you got one? I guess everyone wants different combos of facilities perhaps? Good luck, you sound fed up, and thanks for the scones...yum!

 

[Kylara]

Yes to walker, yes to all year turnout, yes to heated alarmed tack room and locked storage for stuff. Yes to heat lamps and hot wash box (with rubber matting), yes to on site trainers of all sorts, tonnes of vets, physio, farriers etc as we are racing country. Yes to easy access, yes to people living on site.
Price wise I think I'm spot on, any less and I'd lose money (£120pw for part which includes everything but exercise and full groom) especially considering the diy/assisted diy done the road is £80pw.
I'm hoping that in the next couple of months people will be dying for winter turnout and an American barn with a wash box!

 

[Zero00000]

Your yard is beautiful, the only thing that may put me off was the school,

Hope your luck turns around, as you say, winter will be knocking on the door soon.

 

[ycbm]

It would put me off that there seem to be a number of different outfits sharing the same facilities? 21 horses but only a few of them are yours? Potential for unlimited aggravation. Could this be the problem?

 

[rachk89]

It would put me off that there seem to be a number of different outfits sharing the same facilities? 21 horses but only a few of them are yours? Potential for unlimited aggravation. Could this be the problem?

Yeah i know I would be questioning if that was even legal. Plus the fact you are small and look young it doesn't look good.

Why not offer diy anyway? If that's what people want after all.

I never replied to the yards I viewed and rejected because of why I rejected them. Going and telling someone "i think you are bonkers and that's why I won't put my horse here" doesn't sound great but that was my reason. The horse world is too tight knit to get away with telling someone that.

 

[Summer pudding]

Yes to walker, yes to all year turnout, yes to heated alarmed tack room and locked storage for stuff. Yes to heat lamps and hot wash box (with rubber matting), yes to on site trainers of all sorts, tonnes of vets, physio, farriers etc as we are racing country. Yes to easy access, yes to people living on site.
Price wise I think I'm spot on, any less and I'd lose money (£120pw for part which includes everything but exercise and full groom) especially considering the diy/assisted diy done the road is £80pw.
I'm hoping that in the next couple of months people will be dying for winter turnout and an American barn with a wash box!

I think you are under-charging!!!! I pay £520 and don't have all year turnout - grhhh.....it sounds such a lovely yard. I've looked at 2 yards recently that have all year t/o that were lovely BUT turned them down because one had lots of rules, like horses had to go out alone, and I didn't really warm to the owner and thought more rules might be added as and when. The 2nd YO I really, really liked, facilities fab but she didn't inspire me with confidence as she had a mix of full, DIY, etc...and I worried she might not get it right. So lots of gut feeling goes into choosing a yard. Your yard might be a tad busy/buzzy for some? I'm happy with busy as my chap is very sensible, but one of my friends is on constant alert in case a door slams and it upsets her WB.....horses for courses and all that. Your yard sounds so nice and sensibly priced I'm sure you'll get the right people soon, they'll be worth waiting for.

 

[Summer pudding]

I replied to the two I rejected because the local horse world is very small, and it seemed polite after each YO had gone to the trouble to show us round etc..about a hour each time. I said to each that I'd realised I wasn't quite ready to move after all, but big thanks etc. leaving it open in case I needed to move in a hurry. Neither YOs were bonkers fortunately, but I know they are out there!!

 

[be positive]

Yeah i know I would be questioning if that was even legal. Plus the fact you are small and look young it doesn't look good.

Why not offer diy anyway? If that's what people want after all.

I never replied to the yards I viewed and rejected because of why I rejected them. Going and telling someone "i think you are bonkers and that's why I won't put my horse here" doesn't sound great but that was my reason. The horse world is too tight knit to get away with telling someone that.

I cannot see what is illegal about renting a shared yard although I am not sure whether a licensed trainer is allowed to have horses that are not under his control sharing a barn but rules of racing may have changed.

I would be most concerned about arriving after 6pm to find everything shut up and have the feeling that if I had not come to view the yard would be left until 6am or so the next day, if I wanted to ride after work would anyone be there or would I be alone, while it is nice being able to enjoy your horse I am not sure I would want to turn up every evening and feel totally alone in what is a fairly large yard, in winter I would expect all to be quiet but at this time of year most yards will still have some activity going on at 6pm.

I would expect a late night check to be included with part or full livery or possibly cctv linked to the YO if they are not on site otherwise 12 hours or so is a long while to leave a yard of paying liveries.

 

[Kylara]

There are two barns of about 12 horses each. One barn is rented by eventer and mine is split down the middle so I have one side. It's all legit I promise the overall owner lives on site.

I left at half 6 this evening, it's not a hard and fast yard is done at X but generally everyone is finished 5-6pm. There are always people on site and horses in and out, just most get worked in the day as all pro set ups. Plenty of people about to ride with after work for liveries as there are about 200 horses in the area! And must be at least 70 next door.

Everyone there gets in and everyone is lovely. School is 30x70m all weather surface with jumps and can hire more schools and xc next door easy peasy.

I'm hoping it's just a case of people not really moving yet.

In regards to getting back to people I think it's only polite to say no rather than leaving it all super positive and making me think they want a space and then disappearing off the face of the earth

Sigh. I'm sure someone will come, be nice and then get back to me. Can't be too hard to ask!

 

[Equi]

Why don't you offer DIY? In my opinion most horse owners want at least the choice of doing it all or having help. Most will use an assistance when its available, but want that choice.

 

[peaceandquiet1]

I thinks that's the issue. People want DIY. Maybe you could compromise a bit?

 

[Kylara]

I don't offer diy for many reasons, the biggest being how disruptive it is to have people doing horses randomly through the day, people not taking care of stables and fields and the potential of horses not being looked after as I would be responsible if they were neglected etc. The second reason is that my contract doesn't allow for it which suits me fine.
Thirdly, there is no money in diy and once you factor in the cost of insurance etc and the added stress it isn't worth it.
Fourthly, I like to have all the horses mucked out/swapped field and stable in one go so that there is a good routine and I know everyone has been done and that they will be done even if an owner is ill or on holiday. DIY is not something I think I would offer even at home as too much is out of control.

 

[rachk89]

I cannot see what is illegal about renting a shared yard although I am not sure whether a licensed trainer is allowed to have horses that are not under his control sharing a barn but rules of racing may have changed.

Oh i wasn't meaning her renting it that part is legal. I meant is it legal for her to make money by charging liveries to rent from her rented property? I guess that just depends on her contract and she says it's legal so guess it's fine. But i would have been questioning that if I was a potential livery and would want proof it is allowed.

 

[HashRouge]

Yeah i know I would be questioning if that was even legal. Plus the fact you are small and look young it doesn't look good.

Why not offer diy anyway? If that's what people want after all.

I never replied to the yards I viewed and rejected because of why I rejected them. Going and telling someone "i think you are bonkers and that's why I won't put my horse here" doesn't sound great but that was my reason. The horse world is too tight knit to get away with telling someone that.

But you don't have to say that! Just a quick call or text saying thank you for their time but you've decided to go elsewhere is all it takes. I went to see seven yards in two days last month prior to moving my horse for my new job and I contacted each of the ones I decided against because it seemed like good manners. You don't need to give detailed reasons, but some sort of acknowledgment of the fact that they have taken the time to show you round is surely the least you can do!

OP I think your yard sounds super. I suspect one thing you're up against is that the market for full/ part livery is smaller than for DIY. And I suspect that some people do go to look just for a nosy! Hopefully you will have more luck coming into winter - that is when horse owning starts to get difficult and people get desperate for a good yard.

 

[numptynoelle]

Slightly off on a tangent - but I think it's worth pointing out that this post is very identifying - it would put me off as a potential customer if a business owner has a thread that has "need a rant!" in the title, it doesn't seem very professional (even if you feel it is justified). Maybe something to consider if you're already concerned about appearing young.

 

[Kylara]

You'll find most livery yards are rented from people and then they have liveries paying them. An awful lot of yards are owned by people that are renting to the livery yard owner, my contract is with the property owner who also handily has the other side of the barn, lives on site and is an all round lovely person.

Haha I did think about it when I posted, but I really wanted to point out how upsetting/annoying/etc it is from a YO point of view when people vanish after spending time discussing something. It is my job and whilst I spend a lot of time teaching it happens a lot less, though still you get the odd person who books in and doesn't turn up or says they want a lesn and never give you locations or further details. It doesn't happen much (and the latest one who didn't turn up was apparently a bit nutty and haphazard so may have been for the best) and I can count the incidents on one hand.

It's simply a case of bad manners imo, and I would always send a message or rang and say 'sorry don't think it will suit' or 'thank you for your time but I've decided not to move'. It makes life hard when you don't know where you stand.

I know the market for part and full is smaller than diy, but there is still a market, I think it's just not the best time of year.

I may be tiny and get asked for ID at pubs but I know what I'm doing, I'm experienced, and I am very very good with horses and ponies. Patience of a saint too

Anyhoo I'm feeling better after the mini moan, that was supposed to be a general moan about people that leave YOs in the dark or vanish into then air. I don't know any other industry where it is acceptable to book a viewing and not turn up!

 

[rachk89]

You'll find most livery yards are rented from people and then they have liveries paying them. An awful lot of yards are owned by people that are renting to the livery yard owner, my contract is with the property owner who also handily has the other side of the barn, lives on site and is an all round lovely person

That must just be the difference from up here to down south. I have yet to find one that wasn't being run by its owner but there aren't many around and land is far cheaper up here.

 

[Equi]

In that case, sorry OP, you sound like a bit of a control freak. I would not want to be told when i could or could not see my horse because it is "disruptive"

 

[Kylara]

Hardly control freak, but when managing land it is nice to be able to decide who goes where and when after discussing with owner and not having to mess with other horses routines because one owner decided to rock up in the pm and thus stopped another horse having its daily turnout in the am. You can rock up whenever u like, all day if you want to see your horse. But I can manage the fields and stables when I have full responsibility for the horse - part and full - and all horses get looked after and get their turnout and clean beds and hay when they need them. I can't be waiting around for someone to turn up to do their horse as it affects my routine - I need to fit in rides and schooling on and off site, my teaching etc and if a DIY doesn't arrive in time for me to put a horse out or doesn't poo pick their field then I'm being disrupted and so is my job. If I just do the horse for them then they would probably get annoyed at extra charges on the bill, so why bother offering a service I think is not great? Diy yards are fine but I really think the whole yard needs to be diy and everyone just left to themselves, the disruption to any non diy people can be horrific (from experience here and I wasn't even running that yard).

Wanting a nice routine and being able to manage land correctly is hardly 'control freak' and poo picking needs doing daily or it just builds up like crazy! And I'm sure everyone knows plenty of people who 'skip' days or let others do their share

Maybe of I owned a tonne of land and could build a barn away from my stuff I could have diy people but I'd have to be comfortable with the fact that a bunch would probably wreck a fair few fields

 

[be positive]

In that case, sorry OP, you sound like a bit of a control freak. I would not want to be told when i could or could not see my horse because it is "disruptive"

I am with the OP on this having a DIY turn up at random times to feed/ muck out/ turn out or bring in is disruptive to a routine when all horses get fed/ done at the same time, not knowing if the DIY is actually going to turn up is also disruptive and the profit margin is so small it is hardly worth having the box occupied.
I only take 1 or 2 DIY's and frequently regret it when I do, 1 is leaving soon who thought assisted DIY on 24/7 turnout in summer meant coming once a week and hoping I did notice if anything went wrong, which I do but her attitude was such that I was not going to be happy with a similar approach over the winter, I have 1 that is totally the opposite and really dedicated but there is always 1 that puts me off taking on any more, I don't mind when people turn up to ride but do expect the horses to have some routine especially when they are in part time.