Timewasters - need a rant!

[Holding]

Unfortunately in any service industry you are going to get 'time wasters'. I used to work for a private membership club and 9/10 people who called for information didn't join - some of whom I spoke to for a good half hour/45 mins and never heard from again. Just something you have to grin and bear when trying to build business.

Your yard sounds super but agree that it might not appeal to the general leisure rider who will be mainly doing their horse in the evenings and like to socialise. Sorry if I've missed it, but where in the country are you? Might be worth thinking about remarketing to a different kind of client.

 

[charlie76]

I have a mix of people at mine, from hacking ladies to competition riders, they all come at various times through the day at all get along really well, yesterday we have a yard picnic so we also enjoy social time together.
I also diversify so I take on short term schooling and holiday livery. I also have boxes that I have resting or young race horses in. I have also a good relationship with the local vets and they send me horses that need rehab occasionally.

It can work but you have to be open minded.

Do you have staff?

 

[rachk89]

It does sound like you are restricting turnout though. Like one pony goes out for a few hours by itself and the rest have to stay in? I wouldn't be overly happy at that. I like my horse to be out 24/7 when he can be as in through the whole of summer but it doesn't sound like that's an option there. That might be why people aren't interested as most do like their horse to be out all of the time.

 

[charlie76]

It does sound like you are restricting turnout though. Like one pony goes out for a few hours by itself and the rest have to stay in? I wouldn't be overly happy at that. I like my horse to be out 24/7 when he can be as in through the whole of summer but it doesn't sound like that's an option there. That might be why people aren't interested as most do like their horse to be out all of the time.

I don't think this is strictly true to be honest, especially in the case of full and part liveries. In the summer all of mine are out during the day for about six hours and in at night. In the winter they are out for about four hours , if the weather is rubbish then they stay in and are turned out indoors and go in the walker and are ridden in the afternoon. I have every box full with a wait list and every single person is happy with this arrangement.

I think with diys , they tend to want 24 hour turn out in summer as it allows the owner to have a break from chores ( and who can blame them!) Where as on part or full that doesn't come in to it.

Just to say that all of the horses are happy, relaxed and content on this, all of them ( unless specified by owner) are on the exact same regime and it works well.

 

[R.F.S]

I appreciate you are in a much more expensive part of the country than me so can only assume that your prices match that of local yards and also you state in previous posts that your pricing doesn't appear to be the issue. I can't locate your website so unable to comment on that. I think from reading original post and your replies there are some key points which may be deterring people:
1) the times seem very restrictive, you say that you are flexible however go on to say you often leave at 6pm - I don't finish work until 6pm sometimes later (which I'm sure the majority of people don't) if I was planning to ride I'm not sure I would feel comfortable turning up to ride when everything had been done for the night, I would worry I would be in 'trouble' for disrupting the routine. Also people competing on a night often won't arrive back until 11pm or later or competing on a weekend may leave at 6am or earlier, are people feeling you are too restrictive and that they find clashes between their normal routines and yours ?

2) I would not want to share the school/ facilities with others - as in if I wanted to school I would want to have sole use for that hour not be concentrating on keeping out of the other persons way. This would be extremely off putting for me. Is there not a way you could use a book so your liveries can book a slot and the other yards not use the school at this time?

3) you mention there are plenty of people around but are these fellow liveries who are around at none working hours? Eg someone to arrange to hack out with after 6pm. A big part of a livery yard to me is the social aspect.

4) the turnout doesn't seem clear front your posts, certainly in my area all livery yards offer 24/7 in the summer. Some are restricted in the winter (mine isn't but we are fortunate to have enough land to have a trash paddock) but the restricted ones offer 6 hours per day.

This isn't intended to pick fault your facilities sound fantastic I'm just pointing out areas which would concern me as a potential customer. I live in an area which is predominantly DIY or assisted DIY so have no idea of restrictions part or full yards normally have.

 

[Jnhuk]

I have no idea where you are or what you are as no where near you so not enough local knowledge to piece that info together

I would say if that other local yards are full with waiting lists then there is something that you need to find out what is putting folks off. This may be a mis-interpretation with something in your advert/website or a potential issue that no-one has wanted or thought to be candid with you about. Folks may not want to tell you for the fear of it coming back on them or upsetting you or that they think it is so obvious that you must be aware of it already. Get fresh eyes on your website/fb page/advert etc...

If time wasters are an issue then would it be worth having an open evening or afternoon for a couple of hours and advertise this locally. May mean a bit of effort on your part but also ask your existing liveries to be about on site and they can also talk to potential liveries as often they are your hidden weapon in converting a person who is not sure.

This way may mean that you get some interested parties as well as all the folks that just want a nose. I would also give everyone a business card with your contact details as pretty sure anyone who comes along to the open viewing who is serious will wish to arrange a private viewing to discuss their livery requirements.

Regarding feedback you could try to get some from folks viewing at an open day, you could give them a wee postcard to fill out with comments anonymously & ask them to pop it in a box by the gate on the way out. You may find something interesting out that hasn't occurred to you.

 

[Kylara]

In regards to the little pony. Owner wants him on restricted diet and turnout as he is at risk of lami and if he gets fat he can't be ridden, only long reined. He goes out for a little bit but have to make sure the other horses in other fields are sane and not bothered by him so they get swapped round so he can have his turnout. There are still horses out, just not the ones who are scared of him!

Turnout is as much as possible, but not 24/7 as there just aren't enough fields for that and it limits other horses turnout time. So generally overnight or daytime turnout. In summer, if routines allow horse can have overnight and half a day. The fields drain well in winter so turnout is available (unless owner doesn't want horse out) and guaranteed at least an hour in the smaller field if horrendous weather/snow etc stops being able to get to other fields and time on walker but I don't see that happening except in exceptional circumstances!

Less people on the yard in the evening, but the neighbouring yards have a fair few people who hack out in the evenings. I'm at the yard later on Thursdays but I teach a few evenings a week off site.

In regards to sharing the arena. It is 30x70m so refusing to share with anyone is a little unfair I think. People are happy to stick at one end if you want to school without worrying about other horses or are having a lesson. But it is never very busy. You can ask for no one to use it at X time if you want which is fine, for lessons etc or whatever but from about 6/6.30 you're pretty much guaranteed for it to be empty or maybe with another livery there are extra schools and a xc schooling field next door which can be hired as well if you want to use different jumps or charge around some lovely xc/open field (dwarf walled arenas as well and an indoor which you might be able to use if you ask really really nicely).

There are a few odd spaces at local yards I think, but not many.

And part and full livery is organised around the owners requirements the only difference to diy is that you don't have to do any of the chores - just the fun bits!

 

[9tails]

I don't think this is strictly true to be honest, especially in the case of full and part liveries. In the summer all of mine are out during the day for about six hours and in at night. In the winter they are out for about four hours , if the weather is rubbish then they stay in and are turned out indoors and go in the walker and are ridden in the afternoon. I have every box full with a wait list and every single person is happy with this arrangement.

I think with diys , they tend to want 24 hour turn out in summer as it allows the owner to have a break from chores ( and who can blame them!) Where as on part or full that doesn't come in to it.

Just to say that all of the horses are happy, relaxed and content on this, all of them ( unless specified by owner) are on the exact same regime and it works well.

6 hours in summer?! This is massively restricting turnout.

 

[be positive]

You keep saying that there are people on neighbouring yards that hack in the evenings, this is not really a selling point for your yard as, unless those yards are full or don't offer the livery potential clients want, people will go and see if those neighbouring yards have space, if they do then that may be where they end up.
You have to be very careful about trying to please all of the people all of the time, if you are too flexible and seem to be bending over backwards to accommodate every individual you will either come across as desperate or end up messing about constantly moving horses, dealing with clients, chopping and changing every time a new client arrives.

Decide what you offer as standard and what your target market is and stick to it, you can still be flexible but you need to get them in first.
Sharing the school with 2 other yards is not normal for most people, however easy it seems to you it will put a question in peoples minds about how easy it will be to use, especially if one is a pro eventer, many less experienced riders will feel intimidated by having to ride while the pro is using it but also be rather too "polite" to ask for exclusive use at a time that pro would normally be busy.

 

[Lammy]

Sorry but to me it really sounds more like restricted turnout than "managed". Could it be that people are turning up and seeing that actually you don't have that much grazing? How many acres do you have for your own liveries and then how many acres in total is shared between 21 horses on the site? If there's not a lot it may look overcrowded.

Also if I were moving to a new yard I'm not going to be knocking around the neighbouring yards to ask if there is anybody who wants to hack, especially if it's a pro stables next door. I'd want someone on the yard to ride with at least to start off with so that I could get to know the area and even the yard itself.

I really think a book or rota for the school would help settle your potential clients worries about having to share the school. At least then they know there's a system in place that if they need to use it.

 

[chaps89]

Having browsed the local fb groups today for grass/diy livery for a friend of my mums moving to the area I can say there is a huge lack of these types of livery but a glut of yards offering part/full/schooling, so that may be part of the issue, I think you really need to be able to sell yourself/set yourself apart in some way to stand out.
If you are who I think you are (without sounding too stalkery!) you also commented on someone's post who was after diy livery- there is usually a big price jump between diy and part meaning people either want diy because they like doing their chores/want to be in control of their horses management or because it's all they can afford. So they're unlikely to follow through a conversation with you- and others may see you commented with your yard on a request for diy so they may think it's something you can offer.
Also, does the yard itself have a reputation- I can think of 2 yards locally with bad reputations that have changed hands but struggled with their new owners/managers for seemingly no good reason, can only think it must be down to the yard having a bad name.
Can you ask the YO what previous occupants have used the yard for or if she has any input as to what might help?
Have you adverts in local tack shops? Can you talk to vets about taking on horses for box-rest/rehab or to other pro's who might want an 'overflow' yard?
I agree with comments about company for hacking from neighbouring yards being off-putting, but it is a bit chicken/egg scenario- once you have liveries in they'll probably find someone from the yard to hack with anyway but need to get people in first.
I don't think the fact you're done by 6 is off-putting so long as liveries can still go up to ride after work and the tack room is accessible etc, but if it is a relatively small yard I wonder if people are nervous of feeling like they're intruding on someone's property after hours as it were? As it sounds like there'll only be half dozen liveries but at least twice this in pro horses that will be done and put to bed by the time liveries turn up. Personally that would suit me fine, but I know others like a more social setting.
Just a few thoughts anyway.

 

[charlie76]

6 hours in summer?! This is massively restricting turnout.

All of my liveries are happy with this arrangement otherwise they wouldn't be there! What suits one may not suit another, this suits mine. They go out in the morning, come in mid afternoon and are either ridden by us or the owner, riding usually finishes about five where they are groomed and put to bed for six pm.
They are then checked later on.

There are different people with different needs, I have 22 in at mine, all of which are happy with this, in fact, many of the owners actually request less turn out than I offer due to weight issues, horses that simply don't like to be out for hours and horses that are in a lot of work for racing and competition.