Timewasters - need a rant!

[numptynoelle]

... It doesn't happen much (and the latest one who didn't turn up was apparently a bit nutty and haphazard so may have been for the best) and I can count the incidents on one hand...

Ok, can you not see how posting something like this might be considered unprofessional? I really hope for the sake of your business that the person in question don't see this - it's an open forum, with threads that are easily found via google, and as others have said up thread, it's a really small world!

 

[Kylara]

The apparently slightly nutty person was someone who booked a flatwork lesson with me, gave yard details and everything. I drove half an hour to the yard only to find them nowhere to be seen. The yard farrier and manager were both there, both apologised on persons behalf and said that a trailer had turned up the day before and taken horse, they had no idea it was coming or what on earth was happening and owner had apparently just turned up at the yard the month before. So 2 hours were gone and from what I was told I think I made a lucky escape to be honest. This was two years ago and I have never had anything like it since. I lost money as didn't get paid for the missed lesson and never heard from them again. I can understand how telling that story could make me seem unprofessional, but it happened so long ago and is frankly so bizarre that I don't mind. I stayed for the whole hour they had booked, just in case, gave one of my cards to the manager so could get back in contact and chalked it up as a loss in my accounts. It happens, but I think I'm allowed to mention it, light hearted and low on details, and not in an area I now teach in. My current clients all seem to like me and do well and I hardly ever moan about my work as I love it. But I have got seriously upset that I have been messed around by viewings not happening when I have gone out of my way to accommodate.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I really do feel your pain OP.

When we had livery space at my yard a few years back, it seemed to be common knowledge that it was jamboree time, i.e. everyone around who is remotely horsey, plus a few who were very obviously not, to bring a friend - plus the requisite pack of unruly dogs, screaming kids, and OH's smoking like a train everywhere (in an equine yard FFS ), and dropping their litter everywhere to boot as well as leaving a trail of gates open behind them.

One person had already come out two other times with "friends" who wanted to see around, and then seemed surprised and indeed insulted when I said sorry but no to yet another visit!

A lot of the time I think people just want to come for a nose around someone else's yard: not funny when you live on site and have people eyeballing the place. We've nothing to hide here, but hey, we do live here too!!

Luckily we've got the perfect livery now, a real peach who is tidy, considerate, and fantastic in every way!

OP just hang in there as the perfect livery(s) ARE out there, but like the perfect horse, you sometimes have to wait a wee while for them to come to your door........

 

[Kylara]

Thanks. I too don't mind showing people around, but I think a couple at least (and others on the yard thought so too) came for a nosey which is also fine to an extent, but frustrating.

I'm sure there are very nice liveries out there and two of my teaching clients would have come if I had found a yard near them!

There are lots of yards about so probably lots of odd spaces that will fill as they are all established. If it all goes horribly wrong then I'll have to write all my money off as gone forever and give my notice, but I really don't want to. I really want it to work out and I love doing it.

I'm hoping for some lovely people and lovely horses and keeping my fingers crossed that they'll turn up soon!

I don't envy people who organise big events where people have to be booked in to arrive! Must be the most frustrating thing in the world to do.

 

[Evie91]

I agree op it is rude not to respond after a viewing. I have phoned and said thanks but no thanks before.
I also wouldn't offer DIY and prefer yards where the majority are part (I like the routine). It wouldn't bother me at all that you are small, your yard sounds fab! It would put me off that horses are generally finished off by 5/6pm. I work full time( to afford part livery!) and am only available to ride after work which tends to be 6/7pm, so horse having had tea and ready for bed so early would be a no go for me.
Good luck finding liveries, your yard sounds fab

 

[Tiddlypom]

You left at 6.30pm tonight.

Who does the late night checks?

 

[Kylara]

On site owner as we share the barn or one of the grooms from the other barn.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Does this include topping up hay or haylage or water as appropriate? iMHO that's a vital part of a premium livery package.

 

[Kylara]

Ad lib hay/haylage so yes and water all auto unless you want a bucket in which case topped up as and when required

 

[honetpot]

I have insurance for DIY livery, I had spare stables and extra land so thought, why not? I only advertised locally but I seemed to attract every nutter in the area, one the day before her animals were supposed to move here texted me to say rather than move them she had them PTS. I can not decide if this was the most extreme lie ever or if true she was seriously disturbed. I ended up with someone who threatened me and left me £500 poorer, so I am now very suspicious of everyone, do not believe most of what I am told and would never change my plans to accommodate a viewer.
As to being a control freak. Neat non horsesick, ragwortless paddocks need effort, my livery from hell left me with land that took weeks to clear of accumulated poo, and another six months for the grass to recover and when I took legal advice, yes I was responsible for her animals in law.
Its seems people can not follow the most simple instructions. I like stock of any sort checking in the morning, even if they are in the field, it allows time to get the vet, farrier, and daylight hours to sort out problems, and the a second check later. The person who I thought was checking them, we were sharing the care, I found out when I arrived at lunch time and she turned up about 1pm was not coming in the morning at all. By this time I had decided that I could not be bothered, did it all myself and got rid of her ASAP.
DIY, is supposed to be do it yourself, the trouble is a lot seem to forget about the doing and its an excuse to do b****r all.
I would just think on the positive, if they do not get back to you then you have escaped the experience of the deluded. I have a friend who worked for a local riding school, they were always full by Christmas so I would bump up your winter rates for the DIY'ers get fed up of the mud and the travel in winter and want Christmas off.

 

[SO1]

Spaces at good yards are hard to find.

If people don't turn up or don't come and see the yard after enquiring about price/more information then it could be that a space at another yard has come up and they have taken that, something may have happened to the horse or their circumstances have changed or the price is not right for them. Hopefully if you have a website the website is accurate and therefore they know what facilities you have before making an enquiry.

I agree it is very rude not to call to let you know that they are not coming if they have made an appointment and decide not to come {probably not the right sort of client for you anyway}.

Could you offer assisted DIY so you do morning feeds, turn out and catch in and poo picking, but livery does mucking out and making up feeds/hay. This would give you the same level of control over fields and TO and CI times. Bearing in mind part liveries who work or have busy lives may also like to come at what you call "inconvenient times" such as after 6.30pm when you have gone home, to ride or if they are out competing.

I think possibly what might be putting people off is that is sounds like there are potentially 24 horses on the yard and you will only be responsible for 6 of these horses. This means most of the horses and the yard is managed by someone else who you have no control over.

 

[Holly Hocks]

Why not offer assisted DIY if you don't like full DIY? You provide feed, bedding, hay but you turn out and bring in and owner mucks out/fills nets/grooms/rides? That way you still keep control of the turnout and field situation. Does it really matter if they don't muck out til later in the day? You keep control but give the owner some responsibility too. I used to be on assisted DIY and it really was the best livery I've been on. It also offered the option of full livery by the daily rate for holidays etc.

 

[charlie76]

What are you charging?
I'm local to you, offering part and full livery.
American barn with big airy boxes
Small indoor exercise arena (good surface)
Huge outdoor with great surface and lights ( mirrors are ready to go up)
Indoor walker
Hot wash box
Kitchen
Loo
Washing machine
Tumble dryer
Gallops
Show jumps
Xc jumps
Excellent hacking..miles and miles off road
Alarmed heated tack room
Good ,dry grazing with equi fencing in pairs or small groups poo picked daily
Owner on site
CCTV

On site BHS Senior coach

Its kept very clean and tidy

I am currently full with a wait list, I only opened this year having moved from smaller premises, I thought I would struggle but been inundated.

I wonder if you are too expensive?

 

[Theocat]

Okay - I've had a look at your website, OP, and you're coming across as a bit lightweight. The yard is described as new in the top Google hits, you don't talk about a current or recent significant competition record (but talk a lot about when you're younger, which looks odd), don't have a horse of your own except your retired pony - the whole thing adds up to feeling like someone new to the game. I'd change the vocabulary and position yourself as established and a bit more heavyweight.

On both the website and your posts on here, you are reasonably voluble and very confident in your own knowledge and ability. That's great, but it could be slightly off-putting in real life!

I'd add prices to the website, and don't say they're negotiable- it makes you look less professional. Of course packages can be, but not prices. Have more photographs of the facilities. Think about the logic of the services list - putting the forage next to the feed and bedding feels more sensible and makes it look more thought-through .

You could be clearer in your comms generally- on this thread, you talk about there being lots of people around, but then you seem to be suggesting that's because there are lots locally or next door - which is not the same as on the yard. Present everything succinctly as a positive, not a debate, and always think about it and present it from the customer's point of view - for example, the turnout - "individual turnout in view of other horses"would be better than a garbled explanation about walkways and barns.

These are just my impressions- and please don't be offended; marketing and reputation is what I do, and it doesn't matter what the reality it - it's the perception that will persuade people to join you (or not!)

 

[Kylara]

Not offended at all, I haven't updated that bit of the site for a good long while and had rather forgotten about it!
Re-ordering the livery bits is fine, it was all rather just plonked together

I'll go through it all today and update everything as I'm behind with updating, tut tut! Thank you for pointing it out. I do have more pictures but they aren't good quality, so I'll bring proper camera and get some fresh ones.

I'm nice in person, I promise! I do know what I'm doing, but I'm always open to new ideas and I'm always learning new things. In regards to recent comp record, aside from the driving it's been on hold while I finished uni (went back full time) but have a pony in I'm going to start competing after some schooling and still looking for a decent horse (whole other thread on that palaver!) to get out with. It's not all about competing though - I've mostly been teaching and schooling.

In view of that field, it is individual or pairs and there is a gap between it and the next field so that you can walk horses down to the bottom fields without going through fields. It really is just a gap of 3-4m all fields are in view of other horses or next to other horses. It's all a bit fields with horses as far as the eye can see around here for a good few miles!

In response to an earlier comment on number of horses - my yard is on a medium size yard with two barns. All have their own fields and tack rooms etc so all separate. There is another big yard next door, a small private yard on the other side, and more yards/horses as you go down the lane so there are loads of horses about, in various yards and various closeness. So many that it is hard to tell where one ends and another begins!

 

[charlie76]

What are you charging???

 

[Kylara]

I've mentioned earlier in the thread, but £120pw for part including everything but full groom and exercise.

 

[charlie76]

That's exactly what I charge for part and for the same terms.
I'm charging 170 per week for full.

It has taken me a while to get the right people and the I wouldn't change the ones I have, they are brilliant.

I don't advertise either , I am very well located but I think ( I think I have seen you on Facebook) you are too.
You do have to be a bit flexible with people although we do have opening and closing hours.

 

[ester]

I wonder if it is the set up putting people off, yes plenty of people rent and do livery but half of half a yard is not quite the same and may make people wonder if that just makes the chain longer if there are problems to deal with, especially with shared facilities between the 3? separate outfits.

 

[ihatework]

I haven't seen your website but from your posts have worked out your general area.
I think £120 a week for a fairly comprehensive part livery, with good facilities, in that neck of the woods is pitched about right.

If I were looking I think I would have 2 main concerns.
1) Your age, are you experienced enough and act professionally enough that I would leave you in charge of my horse? I do think you need to be a little careful of your use of social media in this respect as I'm sure you are easily identifiable. I really do not think your market is going to be the full schooling type liveries. You just don't have sufficient experience IMO to count on that. But what you can do is go down the bespoke / top end part livery route. Those liveries, like myself, that want a top end service but actually don't want to be told how to manage their horse and want to do the riding themselves. Before I moved away I was livery on a yard run by quite a young girl (which was an initial worry for me), but she was utterly professional and absolutely super with proper individual care. She charged £120 a week which included a full groom but had less in the way of facilities, just a 20x40 school. She was always full.
2) My other concern might be about access to the facilities/school - are these shared between the yards? Am I going to have to battle 6 different horses in the school all the time. Am I going to be trying to flat while the pro eventer wings their young explosive horses over a set of jumps? That could get quite tiresome.

 

[Irish gal]

Just a thought: perhaps a lot of leisure riders aren't so attracted to sharing a yard with professionals like racing people and pro eventers. There's a huge social aspect to horse ownership and being a livery. I'm not sure that goes too well with a racing yard. Might people even be a little intimidated and rather a more relaxed setting, which was just liveries?

 

[concorde]

I think sharing the facilities of your yard with a pro yard would really put me off.
I turned down a similar yard because the facilities were never free for me to use during the working day. The pro was either exercising all her youngsters , or teaching outsiders on their own horses.

 

[Kylara]

Facilities sharing isn't really a problem. Huge arena and everyone is happy to share if needed and there's plenty of space for everyone. But you generally get to use all of the school or share with one other. Everyone works around everyone else so that the more stressy horses go up on their own/with another. Both barns are super laid back and lots of hacking out with people in barns and people at the giant diy next door. There are a fair few liveries around in both of the barns so not too isolated and definitely not a tense super busy place to be. Very relaxed yard, one of the most chilled places I have seen, hence why I decided to rent it.
I'll update the website bits and get some new pictures and having just taken new pony next door xc schooling I think I'll book him an event to go to mid September if I can find a nice quiet one.
There are few limits on visit times, none on vets/farriers/feed/etc, the only limitations I can think of are bedding (which is fab dust free non edible amazing stuff) and that I will be working out turnout plans but even turnout is as much owner input as possible to have happy horses.

 

[Zero00000]

What I meant by the arena is there is no fence (as far as I can see from the photos)

 

[pepsimaxrock]

I'm at full livery and always looking for something closer to home. I look at a lot of yards, especially when they readvertise saying that something has changed. Most arent a patch on the yard Im at but much closer to home. I often end up totally undecided so I usually email back after a visit and say I'd like to be put on the waiting list and give a tentative date I might consider moving (usually around 3 months from visit date) ..... do I get a response? Nope. Customers need looking after.

 

[Kylara]

Oh! The arena is dwarf wall (which is great as no wall hugging and fab for straightness work) but there is a post and rail fence a couple of metres out from the arena on all sides, one side has a hedge as well. Gate that is easy to open/close from horse or floor. So it is enclosed but the fence just isn't immediately next to the surface.

 

[9tails]

Oh! The arena is dwarf wall (which is great as no wall hugging and fab for straightness work) but there is a post and rail fence a couple of metres out from the arena on all sides, one side has a hedge as well. Gate that is easy to open/close from horse or floor. So it is enclosed but the fence just isn't immediately next to the surface.

Put this on your website too, I'd love an arena like that.

 

[Lammy]

I think I too would be put off with the yard sharing - more so that you share the actual barn and don't have one to yourself. It might not be a problem to you but potential customers might see it as one. Are you able to setup a rota to say that at a certain time in the day they could definitely have the arena to themselves/just your liveries - even if it's just an hours gap at a convenient time.

Also is the grazing restricted? You've mentioned turnout times am/pm so I assume this means horses aren't out 24/7 or they're only out for parts of the day. If this is the case it would also put me off.

Also please don't tarnish all DIY's with the same brush, I've just gone back onto DIY from part livery as the horses weren't being looked after to an acceptable standard at all - not looked at for days when out in the fields and constantly on/off lame. I know not all part/full liveries are like this just as I know not all DIY'ers are awful. Mine are in a clear routine and doing far better on DIY than they ever were at the part livery yard.
I understand that you don't want to disturb routines but it seems as though you may have better luck attracting assisted DIY clients, it's slightly cheaper than part livery and owners retain some semblance of control and responsibility, if more yards around me offered this kind of service with your facilities I'd snap their hand off.

 

[Zero00000]

Oh! The arena is dwarf wall (which is great as no wall hugging and fab for straightness work) but there is a post and rail fence a couple of metres out from the arena on all sides, one side has a hedge as well. Gate that is easy to open/close from horse or floor. So it is enclosed but the fence just isn't immediately next to the surface.

That sounds a lot more appealing!
From the photo shown it looks completely flat, or may just be as I'm on a phone, but I'd definitely add a description of some sort and get a few more photos to show

 

[Kylara]

I think it looks flat because the wall is black and it's a sand and rubber arena! I'll get some more pictures and add a little description as well.

Grazing is managed more than restricted. So I can rest some bits if necessary and pop horses out for their slot (have a slimming down pony who goes out for 1 - 4 hours because of grass and pony but will go out more in winter so he has to go out at a set time as a couple of horses can't get over how small he is and get wound up so he goes out when they are not out for eg). As much turnout as possible is what I try for but in winter that may only be a morning or afternoon so that fields don't get wrecked and all horses get their turnout and I can have parts of fields resting for a week etc. But if it does get like that then horses can go on the walker to keep them active if there isn't much turnout due to weather. So not what I'd call restricted. In summer as much as possible, but again working around horse and what is best for it. So overnight works for one with a sensitive nose and as a native 24/7 on the grass in summer would result in a porker!