Tips for field pacingand YO issue please.

SpringArising said:
You asked for help but aren't willing to swallow your own pride and admit that you are the issue here.

If everything is so fine and dandy why did you bother writing a hardback novel of an OP asking for help on stopping your horse from pacing and stressing out?

How miraculous that he's now suddenly stopped.

I feel so sorry for your horse, I really do.
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It's a relief to know you have such emotions as I doubted you did.
 
Poor illusion 100, some not very nice bullies on this thread. Wish you lots of luck with your horse who you clearly care deeply about.
 
I'm still amazed that anyone can consider keeping a 2 yo on it's own a good idea.

Obviously though despite everyone's efforts to advise and make suggestions on this thread and several before this you know best OP, your horse isn't really showing any signs of stress and will be hunkydory from here on in.
 
bouncing_ball said:
Poor illusion 100, some not very nice bullies on this thread. Wish you lots of luck with your horse who you clearly care deeply about.
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Thank you. Every decision I've made with this horse has not been done without careful thought and Professional advice from those that know him personally. Sometimes teething issues occur and I'd rather be pro-active about it.

Anyway, he will have been at this new yard 3 weeks tomorrow and although I've personally not seen him pacing at this new yard although the YO informed me he was doing it sporadically, it appears to have ceased over the last few days from what they or I have noticed. I have been to sort him Thurs, Sat and today. I've not seen any pacing or other indications that he is unhappy. He has that lovely liquid look back in his eye again that he has when he is very chilled. :)

Thanks again for caring. Much appreciated.

The cracks in his feet should hopefully be gone by the next farriery session (possibly 2 sessions) and he is looking much more 'rounded' again in his musculature after developing a bit of a banana shape from the pacing at the last yard. So yes, I agree with Ester, he's not showing any signs of stress and should be hunkydory from here on in. :)
 
Really glad he's settled .
It's not easy dealing with difficult horses when you can't be in control of the enviroment like you can on your own yard.
Please be careful when you get back on him I used to start a lot of horses and almost without fail the ones that came back with after problems where the ones that were not kept going for a while after they went home .
Do not get without going back to basics for a while , leaning across etc it should give you clues about how he will be .
Its always worth going back over the small stuff to avoid potential issues.
I have just had a 7 yo ID let down with out riding for the first time since he arrived as a rather tense rushed recently started five year old he's hunted one and half seasons and will go through a mini starting before I get on him it sounds silly and is very probably unecessary but it's much much better to do this than perhaps have a 'nasty'.
 
its not ideal to keep youngsters in individual turnout no, but equally i dont personally consider it the worst sin either(when you see horses either out in burning sun with no shade, or standing in a somme of poo and mud in the name of 24/7 turnout being best etc).

if we got a 2yo tomorrow, unless it was very fat and very quiet(and thus could go out with Bruce) it would be in individual turnout as we would have no other option. we would make sure he had social contact at other times but i find some of the responses on this thread rather hysterical tbh.

i agree with GS about a careful and thorough re-starting :)
 
Equally it is possible to turn out in groups and not have somme-like conditions and provide shade ;).

I guess I see that I'd want my horses to be as chilled and happy as possible with all of their needs met, and that it should lead on to better performance too.
 
yes definately i more meant some people have odd double standards (not all, but some)...........its a heinous crime to turn a 2yo out alone, but then on the "how does your field look" pics in dec/jan, some of those make my head explode at what people consider acceptable for a horse to stand in 24/7.

we all(mostly) do the best with what we have and i think its clear the OP hasnt quite got to the bottom of the issue, but is getting there slowly.

its easy to say that settled herd turnout is the best for all horses, but actually add in to the equation everything we expect them to do work wise and for some its not the best thing at all.
 
Genuine query PS, in what way does work change whether settled herd turnout is best? Along the lines of me bringing Frank in before a show for a good sleep or something I've missed?
 
because from a purely practical note,if you arent riding or ride rarely and dont compete, if your horse gets a silly kick or a bite under the saddle and needs 2 weeks off its far less of an issue than if your competition horse does.

if your none ridden or rarely ridden horse spends all day racing round like a **** each time a horse jogs a bit, and runs its self up lean its not the end of the world, if your competition horse is running off weight as fast as you can feed it, its never going to perform at its best.

no matter how settled the herd, horses are horses and stupid scrapes and knocks and 24hours of idiocy can have a big impact.

i pour hundreds if not nearly a thousand a month in to this when competing, so if individual turnout saves me wasted entries and pointless vets bills, individual turnout it is.
 
I hear what Prince33Sp4rkle is saying although my competition horses (advanced medium dressage and BE100) are all turned out in two herds (1 mares and 1 geldings) although I keep my horses at home so there is not a constant change of field companions. Yes, I have lost out of competitions (including Regionals) and lost entry money after injury in the field but I have also lost out on competition (Badminton grass roots) following an injury in the stable.
 
There is an interesting article in one of the popular horsey magazines this month about keeping horses on their own.

I understand about young horses and being kept on their own isn't ideal but a lot of 'professional type yards' (and I use that term loosely) cater only for individual turnout. I am on one such yard and know of a few others nearby that only cater for this set up.

I don't think any of the horses suffer for this, admittedly ours can't interact over the fence during part of the year as the fence is electric fence, but sometimes when in the other paddock which is post and rail they can interact with each other but I have yet to see this.

I guess its each to their own and up to the OP how she keeps her horse.

I think some of the comments on this post are really unnessecary and very bully boy. 'I feel really sorry for your horse' is a terrible statement to make to someone for example and very upsetting to that individual. There is too much bullying on this forum usually the same people, time and time again. Its about time the administrators took notice to stop this from continually occuring. Hiding behind a user name is easy for some it seems.

PS one day I will learn to spell unnesscary :)
 
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i would like to add that i HAVE previously had the horses as a herd and can hand on heart say we have suffered barely any injuries requiring time off,sustained in the field since..... one bruised sole and thats it.......in the last 5 years(since we completely separated every horse).

we didnt have a bad record prior to that, but a lot more scrapes,nicks,bruises etc just needing 2/3 days off, so silly niggles really but niggles you can do without.
 
While I seek to avoid individual turnout I always kept horses preparing for three days events on their own to reduce the risk of injury and because the very fit are often not the best turned out with the not so fit .
I have also had two horses who where not to trusted on turnout, they where aggressive and it was not worth the risk .
How you turnout defiantly effected performance in some horses .
It's an old nags mans trick to turn out a naughty horse alone in a small paddock and work it hard and for some horses it's a way through an issue .
Some lazy horses can be better kept in a individual paddock and some are worse .
My new horse is super laid back when kept in a group it might a bit much if you where competing him at advanced .
For some pairs are best , three is I think the hardest number to settle in a group .
However it would never be acceptable for me to keep a young horse alone they need the exercise and mental stimulation they get from company .
I also totally understand what pros turnout valuable horses they ride for owners alone and why DIY yard owners do it too as it must just be much much easier .
 
This isn't criticising anyones choices, as most people make the best (or sometimes only) choices they can. I've kept horses for years on yards with both individual, and group, turnouts. They were fine on individual, but hand on heart they look 100 times happier when you see them playing and messing around and having fun with each other in a group.

For me the risk of injury doesn't justify isolating a horse, i've seen horses off for months because they backed off a horsebox ramp awkwardly.

I know if i was a horse which option I would want.
 
Goldenstar said:
It's an old nags mans trick to turn out a naughty horse alone in a small paddock and work it hard and for some horses it's a way through an issue .
Some lazy horses can be better kept in a individual paddock and some are worse .

.
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Out of interest how does the above work? Not being argumentative just very curious and a bit confused.
 
My horse is kept individually, although we have always sad that if he were stressed by this then we would have a companion. Other horses here have been fine too, one particular one was not, we had him a companion Shetland within 24 hours after him arriving.

One thing though, I would have loved a baby horse (yearling or so), but really believe that babies need to be in a group. I think horses can manage much better on their own once they have a "working" relationship with a human being. The being asked to comply, working out puzzles, physical contact, and physical work, I believe they all go some way to compensate for the loss of horse buddies.

So, much as I would love a baby horse, I don't want a whole group of them, so I have to stay with adults only. For me really that would be 5 yrs plus, maybe a 4yo at a push.
 
The thought behind the single turnout on a bare paddock for naughty horses was that it concentrates their minds on people and what people want from the horse and the horse seeks relationship with the person because you have removed their horse friends and keeping them on short rations gives them less energy for bad behaviour .
In my youth I knew a real old fashioned nags man he had a small paddock a little away from the yard high hedges all round a naughty horse went in there and was worked from there . He was very very good at turning round naughty horses .i have always remembered this and have used it myself at times when I have felt the need although they can always see others on my yard .
On the lazy thing I thinks just some horses are perked up by group turnout and for some it has completely the opposite effect .
Until Fatty is stabled at night he's much more perky when you work out of a field where he's on his own .
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
yes definately i more meant some people have odd double standards (not all, but some)...........its a heinous crime to turn a 2yo out alone, but then on the "how does your field look" pics in dec/jan, some of those make my head explode at what people consider acceptable for a horse to stand in 24/7.

we all(mostly) do the best with what we have and i think its clear the OP hasnt quite got to the bottom of the issue, but is getting there slowly.

its easy to say that settled herd turnout is the best for all horses, but actually add in to the equation everything we expect them to do work wise and for some its not the best thing at all.
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Well, quite - it's common sense really. Blanket statements and horses just don't mix. End of. My own horse busts those generalizations all the time and every day - and so do everyone else's - why? Because they're individuals. Yes, there are standards of care we must adhere to - basic principles - access to clean water at all times, adequate feed and forage, appropriate exercise and turnout and proper socialization - and, yes, the "ideal" is to have horses in large herd groups browsing on hedgerows and grazing a wonderful tapestry of herbs and grass . . . but the reality is that the "ideal" isn't always practical (or even preferable) for some horses and some owners.

Know what? Yes, Kali is now retired . . . but he is still stabled for part of the day/night and come winter he will be clipped. He has an impressive wardrobe of rugs, will always have access to ad lib forage (grazing or hay/haylage), shelter in the field and a stable to sleep in at night . . . he HATES the winter weather, stresses and charges about when it's wet and windy (increasing the risk of further injury to his off fore suspensory) and (yes this is selfish) I have no interest in having him ruin either my clothes or his when he starts moulting . . . he will be sufficiently warm and dry - job done. Is it how everyone would manage a retired, older horse? Nope. Is it how I will manage MY horse? Yep. I'm not right, but I'm not wrong either - and that's my point.

Herd turnout is undoubtedly wonderful for many horses - I have several friends who keep theirs (and others - on livery) in large-ish herds and they are all amazingly happy and healthy . . . but it isn't necessarily for everyone.

Another (small) example - when Pops was in full work we tried both turning him out 24/7 and just at night in during the summer months - neither worked - he was far too tired to do any meaningful work so any schooling was counterproductive. Now that he is retired, he has transitioned successfully to being out at night and having a snooze/rest in his stable during the day . . . what didn't work then works now. I manage the horse I have now . . .

P
 
I am glad your horse is starting to settle - I presume his paddock has some shade/shelter as if not it maybe he gets uncomfortable if there are a lot of flies around or if it is very hot/wet/windy and there is no shelter from the elements and causes him to pace. I know this is difficult to find out but does he only do it if people are around {e.g is he trying to get someone's attention or does he still do it if he can't see or sense anyone is about?}

I think nearly all horses would be prefer to be turned out with a friend or friends if given the chance. If the Shetland is available as a companion for him I would take up that option if I were you as long your horse is not aggressive towards the Shetland it would I am sure be nicer for him to have the option of a friend in the field if possible.

However I appreciate that there may be some cases where a suitable friend/friends are not available or the horse is has a history of being so aggressive that it is too risky to try out companions in case they get injured, so the horse may end up on individual turnout.

My pony had to be on individual turnout for a few months after being on box rest while he was recovering from an injury broken splint bone due to being kicked by another horse - vet did not want him on group turnout until he was cantering and fit under saddle. Even though he had a kick injury that resulted in 10 weeks box rest and a total of 7 months till he was fit enough to go out in a group again, it has not put me off group turnout as I think he is happier to be with friends than on his own.

I think if your horse settles at this yard then even though it is not perfect for you because of the distance it might be worth staying for a while for your horse's sake as if he is highly strung it might be hard to find another more suitable place nearer to you.
 
Hi all. Thought I would give an update. :)

I haven't been to see him since my last reply but daily evening reports say YO has seen no pacing! The Shetland was removed (I think last Fri) due to Lami concerns so he has been in the paddock on his own but with company in next paddocks. Every time I've been since last Thurs/over weekend, he's just had his head down grazing when out. I saw YO in person Sunday and they said that for the last few days they have not noticed him do anything other than eat either. I'm so relieved!

I am still in no rush to get on him (even though I'm desperate too! :D) until I know he's completely happy about everything. He was been Pro backed Nov last year and again this early Summer. I have now started the process again and it will go at his pace, if I think he needs more experienced hands, he will go back to Trainer again to make sure things go just right. My poor horse.

Ever since the awful experience he had at 8 months old due to a vet op, yes, there have been many difficulties. Most people would have passed this horse from pillar to post just making him worse. Many would have put a bullet in him a few years ago and he'd most likely have passed through a digestive system somewhere. Instead I've invested years of time and a heck of a lot of money. Again my poor horse.

I have never previously expressed something like this but for those few who go out of their way to be deliberately offensive, judgemental and patronising, do me a favour and go *fill in blank*

Thanks for everyone else giving more balanced, though out opinions and experiences that are actually helpful and offer support. It is so very much appreciated and just what I needed. Thanks again. :)
 
applecart14 said:
I think some of the comments on this post are really unnessecary and very bully boy. 'I feel really sorry for your horse' is a terrible statement to make to someone for example and very upsetting to that individual. There is too much bullying on this forum usually the same people, time and time again. Its about time the administrators took notice to stop this from continually occuring. Hiding behind a user name is easy for some it seems.
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I find the same. Often I read a thread and while going through the comments I think 'bet I know who that was posted by', yep, same ol' same ol'. Not the same member every time obviously but each is easily recognisable by their style of bullying/usual fashion of response.

I am unaware of the ins and outs of what Admin do on this Forum but it does certainly appear they are reactive to bullying rather than proactive.

One day, the forum bullies will have a not so easy time of things and look for support and advice on a thread they have started. I for one, will try to help them as best as I can, as life can be hard sometimes and we all just need some support.
 
Oh FFS, people ARE trying to support you. There are a lot of experienced people on this forum. You have been given a lot of advice, but are choosing to ignore anything that you don't agree with. Fine, its your horse, whatever. People are just exasperated with your head in the sand attitude. Its hardly bullying.
 
pixie said:
Oh FFS, people ARE trying to support you. There are a lot of experienced people on this forum. You have been given a lot of advice, but are choosing to ignore anything that you don't agree with. Fine, its your horse, whatever. People are just exasperated with your head in the sand attitude. Its hardly bullying.
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agreed,post on here ask for advice about a young horse stood on its own and fence walking most people are going to say the same thing...its fairly obvious. If stating the obvious makes me a bully then go ahead and be a victim.
 
Having posted on the OPs previous threads it is difficult for people to read lots of advice having been given, find the OP does something completely different against the vast majority of the advice and then posts again, sometimes several times over, describing similar problems. There are only so many times people feel they can do that cycle, particularly when you yourself are describing a 5 yo horse that has had issues since he was 8 months old - suggesting that what you have tried so far hasn't really been that successful despite all your efforts and money spent and perhaps a more fundamental difference/change would help/be worth trying.

Re. the forum, no it isn't actively moderated, which for most they like hence they are here. Admin are for the most part reactive and only intervene if issues are reported to them. This is well known I am surprised if you expected anything else OP. Though I do think some people have some rather odd definitions of bullying, and fwiw witch hunts and cliques just because a lot of people happen to agree with eachother.
 
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