Tips for tempis?

ycbm

ycbm

Overwhelmed
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
61,638
Visit site
My wonderful Clydex sports cob has nailed one change in each direction and is beginning to 'jump' them through really sweetly. So I'm starting to think about tempis. I've taught one horse threes before, but I thought your tips on teaching tempis would be interesting. It was an unconventional hint from Goldenstar that cracked the singles, so anything considered!

I did threes because I had read that they were more in tune with the basic canter rhythm than fours, so I would plan to do that again unless persuaded otherwise.

Only got boring rich tea to share I'm afraid.
 
If you can teach them against a fence you can get them much straighter than if you teach across the diagonal... For some reason (Probably my psychology - or psychosis) I could only ever teach tempis in an indoor cos I needed the solid wall to lean on... But I'm wierd and my horse at the time was even odder...
 
No help on tempis but would love to be able to do them but if Goldenstar doesn't mind sharing what was the unconventional tip that cracked the singles?
 
Crazy_cat_lady said:
No help on tempis but would love to be able to do them but if Goldenstar doesn't mind sharing what was the unconventional tip that cracked the singles?
Click to expand...

I can't remember exactly how she described it, but what ended up working for us was half pass back to the track, use the fence to straighten and ask for the change before the corner. Up until then he was with completely late behind, or changed through a stride of trot. This sorted him out.

He also responded very well to one my trainer taught me back with the first horse, to canter straight towards the fence and ask for a change when a short distance away. That made him wait to see which way we were turning, and think about organising himself.
 
We did our first simple change the other day (pony is 18 years old - never too late to learn!) My instructor got us to pick up right leg canter, come across the diagonal, hold the counter canter and then apply the aids for the change at the same time as making a turn to the left in front of the arena fence. A placing pole really helped and once he cracked what I was asking, he did it really nicely with plenty of jump. I'm not sure if we'll ever reach the dizzy heights of tempis but I'm watching for training tips with interest! It's thanks to Milliepops' tip that we've cracked medium trot too - the power of the H&H forum! :)
 
I've done them on the fence to help with straightness as blitznbobs suggests. We have a couple of mirrors where I am and I like to ride the tempis into the mirror to assess straightness and also see any late-behind changes.

I started doing 3 "somethings" rather than specifically riding tempis, so a change at the start of the long side, another change somewhere in the middle and another somewhere towards the end. (easiest in a long arena ;) ) That kept it flexible and easy for the horse and I could work on her balance and the quality of the canter between each change rather than pressing on and letting the quality deteriorate and consequently compromise the correctness.

When that was reliable, then I started doing 5s or 6s round the track. Our school is 30 x 40 so its easy to ride effectively a giant oval rather than get stuck in corners but tbh if the horse is ready for tempis then doing a change to the outside around a corner shouldn't be a problem :p

From there, yes, I found 3s easier as a more natural rhythm but that is also partly about me getting ants in my pants in the 4s, my horse is super quick to the change aid and I am inclined to prepare her too early :o
I have persevered with 4s because you need them in the advanced tests and PSG so now I do more 4s than 3s at home.

If you get that far, then try the 2s. Kira is actually producing better quality changes in the 2s than in 3s and 4s, she keeps impulsion more naturally so I ride some 2s now and then to try and siphon off the enthusiasm into the 3s and 4s :)

Now, if anyone has any tips for getting the rider thinking quickly enough for 1s that would be appreciated! Horse can respond but I get my brain in a tangle, so at the moment we can just do pairs of 1s :D I'm struggling to get in a rhythm :o
 
For me once I could get the single change it was all about speeding up the preparation for it. I'd work on getting a couple down the long side, one at the start and another by the end. Once I could do that I did the same on the quarter line to check straightness, mirrors are worth their weight in gold here.

My trainer had a slightly unconventional exercise, we'd go across the diagonal immediately do a change and then ride a small circle. Once the canter is good enough on the small circle I'd make it slightly egg shaped to give more space on the diagonal and then do another change followed by a small circle. Same principle as above, when ready ride the final change. At first you have to ride several circles in between but you gradually reduce them and then leave them out just riding 3 changes across the diagonal. It's an exercise we used a lot prior to starting flying changes but with simple changes. If the horse started to anticipate the changes or start running after them/getting strong I'd return to the exercise.
 
ycbm said:
I can't remember exactly how she described it, but what ended up working for us was half pass back to the track, use the fence to straighten and ask for the change before the corner. Up until then he was with completely late behind, or changed through a stride of trot. This sorted him out.

He also responded very well to one my trainer taught me back with the first horse, to canter straight towards the fence and ask for a change when a short distance away. That made him wait to see which way we were turning, and think about organising himself.
Click to expand...

Ooh that's interesting as might help with straighteness as mine can do them but also likes to decide he knows best and then ends up late behind or the trot stride. So exactly those 2 issues so might have to give that a try.
 
Great stuff, thanks guys.

MP I also have 30×40 and thank my lucky stars we couldn't fit a 60×20 , because the bigger width is just so useful.

Mirrors? Not a chance in our winds, they'd be off down the valley the first autumn :D
 
I agree with MP, absolutely start them on the wall, its much easier, and also dont start by thinking of tempis (or counting) just see if you can get two or three changes calmly on your aid on the wall. Take your time with this stage as you need to be sure that the change will happen on your aid, otherwise your counting will go up the spout.

Fours are hard, no question, but I start with them as I know its the first thing I will need in competition, but if that itsnt a concern, by all means start with threes, they are easier, and twos easiest of all. Doing threes I would count 1,2,change, that will get you threes.

MP, with ones you need to approach them slightly differently, a single change, 4s, 3s and2s all work the same way so its a very logical progression, but think of ones almost as a different gait, so ultimately you can set the horse off doing ones and it just keeps going. The pair of ones is usually easy to get, its doing three ones that is the sticking point, but once you can do three, you can do fifteen. You have to know that the change is absolutely on your aid as you dont have time to check if the horse has changed before you ask for the next one, it helps in the begining if you have the canter quite short and bouncy, the success of ones is hugely due to the quality of the canter and it needs to be a nice quick short stride. I'd spend a little time just being able to get that quick jumping canter before I ask for changes out of it, after that keep plugging away at it, the three ones will come, then I can tell you how to turn three into fifteen.
 
ah that's great daffy :) very helpful.

I had one go on a schoolmaster when Millie was learning a single change and that was really good down to 2s but Kira is the first horse I've ridden *any* 1s on so back to the blind leading the blind :o With Adam we do quite a bit of short super quick active canter for the pirouettes so I suppose building on that will help with the kind of canter we need for the 1s then. I won't give up! Good thread ycbm... post back with an update, as will i :p
 
Yes, absolutely that canter work will help, you need a more forward canter for the ones than you do for a pirouette, otherwise you will lack the power to keep going, but you need it quicker than the canter you use for the twos, think of a middle ground between those two canters to start the ones. Once the horse is more confident and experienced with the ones, then you can let the canter out a bit to get better quality and ground cover, but that takes time.

I do understand, the first horse I taught ones to also didnt have a clue what I was doing either, she and I learned everything together from the first single change all the way up to fifteen ones, she put up with a lot that mare! Actually, now I think about I've only ever had one lesson on a schoolmaster, and that wasnt for changes, so dont worry, it can be done. Other than that first mare I tend to buy foals, so its always my own work, and the first mare was an eventing reject who had had her brain blown, so I've never had a horse who knew what it was doing, so the blind leading the blind is fine. But be warned, it can take time, my first mare was pretty quick at learning everything, but the next horse, who was the first horse I competed at GP used to get in a right tiz over changes, ones took us two years, but worth it as she now has no problem with the GP changes, and will cheerfully do 25ish at home for fun, so dont worry, keep going.
 
milliepops said:
ah that's great daffy :) very helpful.

I had one go on a schoolmaster when Millie was learning a single change and that was really good down to 2s but Kira is the first horse I've ridden *any* 1s on so back to the blind leading the blind :o With Adam we do quite a bit of short super quick active canter for the pirouettes so I suppose building on that will help with the kind of canter we need for the 1s then. I won't give up! Good thread ycbm... post back with an update, as will i :p
Click to expand...

MP - I really struggled to be quick enough to get the 1's. I knew how in theory, the horse knew how in practice, and the canter was good, but I couldn't get them! We figured out that I was quick enough to change (my) legs, but I wasn't actually asking for change, so they were missed/late/rubbish. My trainer had me saying "Hurrah" out loud (So German!) The "Hu" was when I swapped my legs over, and the "Rah" was when I asked for the change. I felt a bit silly, cantering down the long side bellowing "HURRAHHURRAHHURRAHHURRAH" - but it worked for me!
 
:D :D :D :D love it Aus, that sounds hilarious (and effective) ;)

I'll do a bit more quiet work before I start entertaining the yard like that though I think... :p But at least I know it's not just me being a numpty then ;)
 
milliepops said:
:D :D :D :D love it Aus, that sounds hilarious (and effective) ;)

I'll do a bit more quiet work before I start entertaining the yard like that though I think... :p But at least I know it's not just me being a numpty then ;)
Click to expand...

You could probably say it in your head - but I've always been a squawker!
 
Daffy you're a genius :biggrin3:

We got our bestest canter and then I imagined we were changing gear and mentally rode a transition into a different gait... and got 3 1s :D took me a couple of goes but managed to do the same thing 3 times so hopefully that'll help my weedy brain cells to get the idea. Such a good way to think about it. Thank you! That'll keep us busy for a while :p
 
milliepops said:
Daffy you're a genius :biggrin3:

We got our bestest canter and then I imagined we were changing gear and mentally rode a transition into a different gait... and got 3 1s :D took me a couple of goes but managed to do the same thing 3 times so hopefully that'll help my weedy brain cells to get the idea. Such a good way to think about it. Thank you! That'll keep us busy for a while :p
Click to expand...


Oh thats fantastic!!!! I'm so delighted, you are a very clever pair, brilliant!! Ok, next phase is practise the 3x1, make sure you can do it everywhere, on the wall, on the diagonal, starting from true canter, starting from counter canter, until it is really reliable whenever/wherever you want it.

Now you've done it, you understand how the right sort of canter is absolutely key as is the thinking of it almost as a different gait. I'm so, so happy for you, any other questions, just ask.
 
just be careful, my first GP horse loved doing 1 x so much he kept going after i stopped asking (on average for another 3 or 4,) in a test I had to stop asking for changes at about x... and hope he'd stop in time...
 
I followed this but had nothing to add, but please could I pick your collective brains!

Counting!
I apparently cannot count or reliably do set numbers of strides... Currently (when trying for say 4's for example) tend to go change , 5 strides oops change, three strides CHANGE and so on :o...

Our right change is stickier so part of the problem though is improving fairly quickly, but I just cannot seem to multi-task of asking for the changes and counting strides. I then start to override and Topaz goes weeeeeeeeeeeeee :lol: :o...

When I don't count and just aim for say a change before X, one on X and one after, it's good. We can go round the wall doing changes, and trainer extraordinaire wants me to book our first Advanced :eek3:, and has given me tips, but thought I'd ask you guys too :).
 
have you got anywhere near you that could do a schoolmaster lesson on this? Just thinking it might be easier with a horse that is super established and not likely to go freestyling ;)

That's my only suggestion I'm afraid, counting seems to be the only thing I'm naturally good at :D (my mum's a maths teacher, that's probably it :D ) the only time i rode tempis on a schoolmaster the trainer sat there in shock because I found it easy to get into the rhythm straight away :p
 
Hmm not that I'm aware of....

Will investigate, I'm hoping if I keep trying suddenly it will just click into place or is that wishful thinking :biggrin3:...
 
blitznbobs said:
just be careful, my first GP horse loved doing 1 x so much he kept going after i stopped asking (on average for another 3 or 4,) in a test I had to stop asking for changes at about x... and hope he'd stop in time...
Click to expand...

I know a certain large bay horse, not a million miles from here, who was training GP at home, but competing Medium. He blew a test completely by entering at A in collected canter, and doing ones all the way down the centre line. Show-off
 
Alex, I am naturally appalling at counting, so I feel your pain! Start by cantering round the school, no changing, just cantering, and count 1,2,3,change with every stride, just keep counting and cantering (no changing) until counting to the canter rhythm becomes really comfortable. Apart from this work on the reliabilty of your changes, tempis work when you know that barring major disasters, the change will happen on your aid.

Then put the two together, count 1,2,3, change and you will have fours, count 1,2, change and you will have threes. I know some people will tell you you should count differently, but as a person who struggled hideously with counting, trust me, this is the most simple way to do it.

Its also quite common when the horse is established with ones that they take over and you can be almost run away with in ones, but dont worry about that for a while, equally as I'm sure you've already found out when learning a new thing (changes etc) they will chuck them in at the moment you want it least!
 
daffy44 said:
Alex, I am naturally appalling at counting, so I feel your pain! Start by cantering round the school, no changing, just cantering, and count 1,2,3,change with every stride, just keep counting and cantering (no changing) until counting to the canter rhythm becomes really comfortable. Apart from this work on the reliabilty of your changes, tempis work when you know that barring major disasters, the change will happen on your aid.

Then put the two together, count 1,2,3, change and you will have fours, count 1,2, change and you will have threes. I know some people will tell you you should count differently, but as a person who struggled hideously with counting, trust me, this is the most simple way to do it.

Its also quite common when the horse is established with ones that they take over and you can be almost run away with in ones, but dont worry about that for a while, equally as I'm sure you've already found out when learning a new thing (changes etc) they will chuck them in at the moment you want it least!
Click to expand...

Fab tips, thank you daffy44 so glad I am not alone :o!

The left change is pretty much 100% on the aid and clean and lovely, it's the right which is a little less reliable which isn't helping, so will definitely carry on working on getting it to catch up! But just counting the canter rhythm might just be the trick, shall report back :).
 
My pleasure Alex, you are certainly not alone, counting really wasnt my thing! But you can do it, just work on those two things and then tempis will be fine.
 
Daffy44 I can confirm you are indeed a genius! :biggrin3:

Really just focused on the rhythm of the canter and counting strides to focus it in my head, did lots of changes round the wall and then attempted a diagonal. Schools a little small really, but we managed three changes with the same number of strides between them :thumbup:.

Bit dark sorry:
[video=youtube_share;Qh13akskH-g]https://youtu.be/Qh13akskH-g[/video]

I think it's highlighting that we're not quite 100% on the aids 100% of the time, so just need to keep working on it, thank you so much for the advice!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top