To breed or not to breed

Wigglypigs

Wigglypigs

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 April 2008
Messages
1,742
Visit site
Hello,
Not been in here much - mostly on soapbox or competition riders and still a bit of a newbie but looking for some advice/opinions please.

I have a 2year old JRT bitch.She has a great temprement, is sturdy and very well put together (no bow legs etc)
When ever we are out at shows etc people coment on her.
I have always toyed with the idea of breeding from her but now its decision time as she has just come into season (last night).
I have a dog lined up (my friend has a fantastic JRT dog)
I have worked in a vets and expereinced a few bitches giving birth (usually with complecation hence why they were in the vets) and i am friends with a woman who has breeds dogs (she would help me if req) but i have never had any off of my own dogs

The question is do i go through with it. Now it has all become 'real' i am a bit aprehensive. I think it stems from the idea i might not get rid of all the puppies? I would be keeping one as would the owner of the dog with one more possibly be going to a friends mum.
Any advice experience much apreciated.
 
To me the only reason you should breed is to improve a breed. Not because people comment on how nice your dog is or whether you should make money on it.

They are 100s of JRTs and terrier types already in rescue centres.
 
I see your point on the improving the breed - which i guess i wouldnt be doing since JRTs arnt really a breed.....

The money aspect isnt whats driving me (im well aware it could end up costing me money). I would be doing it because id like another puppy and despite looking for a while i havnt seen one i like and if im honest i would like to have one of her babies so to speak
 
But what about the other number of pups in the litter? What if you can't find them homes? Bearing in mind the credit crunch people aren't as willing to take on pups. Or would you be able to market them as working dogs for farms etc?
 
I don't think u have a valid enough reason to be honest....there are thousands of j.r.t's in rescues, u state that u worry you may not get RID of them all, but what heppens if they need to be returned to you, as a responsible breeder u need to beable to offer a condition of taking the puppies back at any stage of their life so that u are not potentially breeding more to pack the rescues, after we as rescues have homing contracts and take dogs back and we make no profit at the end of the day.
If u cannot take any back at any stage then u really should not do it.
Regardless of the breeder, if the bitch has complications or needs a caesarean then u are looking at atleast £1000 in fees and that if she whelps in normal hours, if they go into emergency hours your bill will even bigger.

If I breed from every dog I had when people commented on how stunning they are inc all the pedigree rescue we get in I would be a millionaire, I would also be adding to the unwanted dog population, I think we have to look at the bigger picture and past the well my dog is in heat may as well breed.
 
I know you can never know exactly how many puppies thay would have . I have 3 definate homes before they are even born and i would keep 2 at a push. I realise i might still have a few to sell/rehome.
The credit crunch thing has crossed my mind as has the fact the puppies would be 8 weeks at the begining of december - not an ideal time to be selling them either.
Not sure about the farm thing. dont know anyone round here who had JRT's for anthing other than pets that happen to catch the occasional rat
 
Its not a case of 'my dog is in heat so ill breed it' I have been thinking about doing it since i bought her but ovb had to wait until she was older. Having worked at a vets im well aware of the costs that may be incured and although i ovb wouldnt want that to happen im aware that it might.
I do see your point on the rescuce centres however the centers local to me seen to be full of Staffys and the like. Not that there might be jrt's in centers around the country. I have a friend what works in the dogs trust who has been on the look out for any JRT's for a year for me now but there have none except jrt crosses that bear little or no resemblance to a JRT and im afraid thats not the kind of dog i want.

I also take on board your point about being able to take back a puppy i would have sold. I am not really in a position to do that so it is definatly a tick in the 'cons' box for that one.
 
Don't be put off breeding as long as you have 2 very good JRT's with no conformation faults or temperament problems.
To have 3 homes lined up already is a lot more than some people have!

It sounds like you have more than enough knowlege and experience yourself and the fact that you have an experienced person willing to help should there be problems means you are very well organised for the birth!

We breed Patterdale terriers who aren't a KC recognised breed our last litter of 9 were all sold by 3 weeks old, I did advertise before the litter was born so had a waiting list of people, although I wouldn't take deposits until the litter were 2 weeks old and I had made sure they were good homes! I could probably have sold the litter 3 times over!!

My only worry would be the timing of when the pups are ready to go. It may be worth considering waiting until her next season as it is a lot easier in the spring or summer.

Our first litter of 7 pups were born in August so went in Oct which was OK, as it was the first litter we didn't advertise until they were 2 weeks old but we did have 6 sold by the time they were 8 weeks old, we kept one which was planned 1 pup came back at 10 weeks as the owners daughter was sadly allergice, but we had him in a new home within 2 weeks.

The 2nd litter we had of 9 were born in April and went early June which I think is why we found it so easy to sell them as the weather is nicer and easier to deal with a pup when you can take it out in the light and dry for all its initial training!!

Epupz is a good place to advertise, or the local feed merchants. I wouldn't put them in free ads papers as you tend to get some right numpties calling up.

Without wanting to get into a debate, but docking is another thing to think about, I assume as you say they are only pets that you would leave them undocked, but make sure you state undocked in the advert as people who might want a pup as a working dog will tend to buy only docked pups. I say that through my friends experience in selling her JRT's
Ours are legally docked and only done so as they are from working stock, and advertised as such and my husband has to produce his shot gun licence for the vet to prove that he is the sort of person who would intend to work his dogs.

Good luck with whatever you decide, if you want any more advice feel free to PM me!!
 
i think that you sound like you have thought about it and you sound like you would have enough experience and educated friends to whelp a litter and care for the pups BUT so many people every day decide that breeding their own pups sounds like a nice idea without realising the cost and time that needs to go into it. Before we even think of putting a bitch in pup we make sure we have a list of at least 10 people who would be interested in a pup if there was one available, this means that if anyone drops out then you still have a back up plan. i would rather have to tell people that there wasn't a puppy for them instead of having to do desperate last minute searches for prospective buyers who i know nothing about. Why not leave your bitch for this season instead of rushing into it, she is only very young still and you will have plenty of chances to breed from her in the future, maybe after you have done a bit more research, good luck though whatever happens!
 
Unless a breed is rare and there is a waiting list for pups even before breeding them, I dont think it is responsible to breed more, and wanting a replacement in waiting for existing dog is not really a good enough reason., however nice the bitch. She could have 6 pups and you could end up with 3 or 4 of them either unsold or returned.

If you dont breed your next dog could be one that needs a home and would have a different personality and would be just as loveable.

thats just my opinion, rehoming a homeless dog to me is far more enjoyable as the dog really needs your help and there are definitely a lot of JRs in rescues all over the place.
 
Where are you? There are loads of JRT's in rescue centres round here
crazy.gif
 
I agree that there are a lot of homeless dogs who need loving homes but also not everyone wants a rescue dog, there are a lot of people out there who rightly or wrongly want a dog from a pup so that it can grow up with them!! Also not all dog owners have the knowlege to be able to cope with a rescue dog ... and yes before anyone says it maybe that means they shouldn't have a dog at all but thats a different arguement!!

I have a recuse dog myself a GSD x Dobi and I love him to bits but he was a complete nightmare and there were times when I nearly gave up. He used to escape and run off regularly and has also killed sheep too!

Our patterdale stud dog was also a rehomed dog and he is a little star, but has taken a long time to come out of his shell, he hadn't been socialised at all and just didn't know how to be cuddled and loved or how to play with other dogs, he has turned into the sweetest natured chap now.
 
So long as you are prepared to take back any pups/keep any that are unwanted, and vet all homes, I don't see why you shouldn't breed, but are you sure there are no heriditary diseases/problems with your dog or your friends? I dont believe anyone can say someone else has not got a valid enough reason to breed..
If you are not prepared to keep/take back any pups (be they 9 weeks or 9yrs) then don't breed.
 
I do understand that...puppies in rescue are snapped up pretty quick, it's only when they are older and not so cute that they are returned.....but what if this happens to the OP...as stated taking any back is not an option if the need arises.

The OP...I do understand u would like another puppy and that the alternative is going to another breeder or rescue...but then again there is the taking back problem such this arise, at the end of the day u can only weigh all the pros and cons as u suggest.
 
I agree with GinaB & Cala
smile.gif


Also just wanted to add - although a little off topic. Epupz is not a good place to get a puppy - it is used by puppy farmers (as well as responsible breeders). Anyone looking for a puppy should be contacting breeders and putting their names down for well bred puppies (ie. where both parents have all health tests, hip scores etc. as appropriate so you have best chance of a healthy dog) or going to rescue centres for crossbreed puppies/ older dogs (and some pedigrees too!).

Incidentally - I don't nescessarily mean KC reg'd - because really good, well bred gundog puppies may not actually be KC reg'd - but KC reg'd is a start. Doesn't work for JRTs tho
grin.gif


Just my opinion - but I hate the idea of people giving money to puppy farmers - falling in love with a cute puppy that possibly ends up costing thousands in vets bils
frown.gif


sorry for small rant
smile.gif
 
I can answer this thread from the perspective of someone who has done what the OP is intending, and who would probably not do it again.....

Our black Lab bitch, China, was always being complimented by strangers - she's a lovely stamp of a Lab, with a temperament to match. Friends of ours had a gorgeous black Lab boy from good working lines, and several people we knew had said they'd love to have a China puppy if ever we did decide to breed. And so we went for it! We had her checked out beforehand, and the vet said she was fit, healthy and in perfect condition for breeding. Her pregnancy went without a hitch.....right up until her labour. We knew something was wrong at once; she had some green discharge - the one thing the vet had told us to look out for. At midnight, we drove her 10 miles to the vets, during which time she gave birth to her first pup on my lap in the back of the car. The vet wanted to turn us away as she had already had one, but mum insisted that we stayed put, in case anything went wrong. Needless to say, it did, and at 3am, she was taken into surgery for an emergency caesarean. Her calcium levels dropped dangerously low, to the point that we nearly lost her. She pulled through, as did nine of her ten puppies (although we lost one at a week old
frown.gif
) It was touch and go, and hugely expensive - the vets bill was in excess of £2000, which even the sale of the puppies didnt cover. That was another thing - most of our promised homes dropped out at the vital moment, so where we'd thought we had at least five or six homes lined up, we actually only had one
crazy.gif
We then had to advertise them, and put up with countless unsuitable people turning up wanting to barter with us over their price
mad.gif
It was heartbreaking - we didnt have the space, money or facilities to keep four puppies, and so the last ones to go went to homes that we were perhaps less than happy with. One of them had an awful time - believe it or not, we had visited and fully vetted his new home before hand, yet they went back on what they had led us to believe, and put him in a 4ft x 4ft cage for the first three months....and then they wondered why he was agressive and uncontrollable when they decided to let him out
mad.gif
Again, we hadnt considered the possibility of having to take a dog back - let alone one which, through no fault of his own, had developed behavioural issues. Luckily for that pup, we managed to find him another home in the same village with a lady who actually trains dogs for a living, so it ended ok for him. But it could easily have gone so very, very wrong.

On the good side, we have lovely memories of having bred - looking after the puppies was a wonderful experience, and one which none of us regret. And we now have India, who is just as lovely as her mum. But we'd never do it again, and would advise anyone thinking of breeding just for the sake of it to really think before they act - it isnt always a bed of roses, as we found out!

But good luck with whatever you decide - doggy sounds lovely
smile.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with GinaB & Cala
smile.gif


Also just wanted to add - although a little off topic. Epupz is not a good place to get a puppy - it is used by puppy farmers (as well as responsible breeders). Anyone looking for a puppy should be contacting breeders and putting their names down for well bred puppies (ie. where both parents have all health tests, hip scores etc. as appropriate so you have best chance of a healthy dog) or going to rescue centres for crossbreed puppies/ older dogs (and some pedigrees too!).

Incidentally - I don't nescessarily mean KC reg'd - because really good, well bred gundog puppies may not actually be KC reg'd - but KC reg'd is a start. Doesn't work for JRTs tho
grin.gif


Just my opinion - but I hate the idea of people giving money to puppy farmers - falling in love with a cute puppy that possibly ends up costing thousands in vets bils
frown.gif


sorry for small rant
smile.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Epupz is where we have sold all our pups, so long as you ask enough questions to the breeder then anyone with half a brain can sieve out the puppy farmers!!
They normally tend to be the short sharp adverts with very few details and when questioned they do not tend to give you much information about the parents or anything else!
Puppy farmers will advertise anywhere, not just Epupz!!
Epupz openly warn people to be aware of puppy farmers and also encourage people to report any worries to them!!

Certainly with the Patterdales there is no Patterdale terrier group to register as a breeder with so there is no central register as it were. Although 1 web site advertise as building a register I have put our name forward and put in for pup enquiries when we were first looking for Patts and I have heard nothing, my initial enquiry was in 2005!!!!

In fact maybe its somthing I should look at setting up!!

One of our pup owners only contacted me as I was registered as a breeder on Epupz. So it is somewhere that is excellent for advertising in my opinion as it is the place that has given us the most homes for ours.... and good genuine homes too!!

OP is selling not buying so therefore why would they worry about puppy farmers, I would say it is fairly obvious that OP isn't a pup farmer and so long as the advert is well worded then potential pup buyers will see that too!!
 
I know the OP isn't buying - that's why I said it's off topic
smile.gif


I also never said it was a bad place to sell puppies - just don't think its a great place to look for one.

I know the OP isn't a puppy farmer
grin.gif


But I disagree that most people can work out which ones they are - you clearly could and I like to think I could too - but there are also lots of people that just wouldn't realise - perhaps we may have to agree to differ on that point
smile.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
I know the OP isn't buying - that's why I said it's off topic
smile.gif


I also never said it was a bad place to sell puppies - just don't think its a great place to look for one.

I know the OP isn't a puppy farmer
grin.gif


But I disagree that most people can work out which ones they are - you clearly could and I like to think I could too - but there are also lots of people that just wouldn't realise - perhaps we may have to agree to differ on that point
smile.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

if the advert was worded "homebred, mother can be seen" i think that would solve the problem?
 
[ QUOTE ]
To me the only reason you should breed is to improve a breed. Not because people comment on how nice your dog is or whether you should make money on it.

They are 100s of JRTs and terrier types already in rescue centres.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto.
 
[ QUOTE ]

Our patterdale stud dog was also a rehomed dog and he is a little star, but has taken a long time to come out of his shell, he hadn't been socialised at all and just didn't know how to be cuddled and loved or how to play with other dogs, he has turned into the sweetest natured chap now.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly why people should rehome dogs from rescue centres. Just think that lovely little chap was in there all the time and just needed kindness and patience to bring him out. Any pillock can breed to get a pup (no offence meant to OP!) but it's so much more rewarding to rescue.
 
Good point OOTP.....I also don't understand these rescues handing dogs out to be breed from themselves...this is the reason all ours are neutered before rehoming so they cannot be breed from, the aim should be to reduce not produce more from those that have been in a rescue situation to repeat the cycle
crazy.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
I agree that there are a lot of homeless dogs who need loving homes but also not everyone wants a rescue dog, there are a lot of people out there who rightly or wrongly want a dog from a pup so that it can grow up with them!! Also not all dog owners have the knowlege to be able to cope with a rescue dog ... and yes before anyone says it maybe that means they shouldn't have a dog at all but thats a different arguement!!

I have a recuse dog myself a GSD x Dobi and I love him to bits but he was a complete nightmare and there were times when I nearly gave up. He used to escape and run off regularly and has also killed sheep too!

Our patterdale stud dog was also a rehomed dog and he is a little star, but has taken a long time to come out of his shell, he hadn't been socialised at all and just didn't know how to be cuddled and loved or how to play with other dogs, he has turned into the sweetest natured chap now.

[/ QUOTE ]
So you took a dog out of rescue centre, knew nothing of his background, nothing of his health history, nothing of his parents health history and then used him as a stud Dog? Seriously?
mad.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Our patterdale stud dog was also a rehomed dog and he is a little star, but has taken a long time to come out of his shell, he hadn't been socialised at all and just didn't know how to be cuddled and loved or how to play with other dogs, he has turned into the sweetest natured chap now.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you took a dog out of rescue centre, knew nothing of his background, nothing of his health history, nothing of his parents health history and then used him as a stud Dog? Seriously?
mad.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

How do you know Foxfolly knew nothing about the dog's history? Just because he was rehomed, it doesnt mean he had no papers, or that the rescue centre knew nothing of his health/parental background....
 
[ QUOTE ]
So you took a dog out of rescue centre, knew nothing of his background, nothing of his health history, nothing of his parents health history and then used him as a stud Dog? Seriously?
mad.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Excuse me.... you could ask rather than assume the worst!!!

Not at all what happened!

His original owner had him from a pup and used him as a stud dog but he also bred Bull terriers that didn't get on with him, therefore he rehomed him to an older couple as he was worried about his safety with his bull terriers.
The older couple that had him couldn't cope with him, he is a patterdale after all...!! So his original owner took him back and put out the word to find another home for him, we found out about him, went to see him, liked him, he was very bubbly and friendly just didn't know how to be cuddled!! He suited our bitch as his conformation etc. is excellent and his strong points compliment the slight weakness our bitch has, which is just that she could do with a slightly stronger head if you were going to be hyper critical. Between the 2 of them they have produced 2 cracking litters with superb conformation and temperament.

We have a lot of extremely happy new puppy owners who are very happy to reccomend us due to the temperament and trainability of our pups.
We went to a terrier show the other week and came back with a rossette from every class we entered!! I think that says a fair bit!! So I hope we wouldn't be considered as irresponsible breeders!!


Oh and we also know exactly how he is bred.... out of a Nuttall bitch by a top irish working terrier, he is said to have been bred by Brian Nuttall's son, so therfore he will not be put to anything from that line of breeding, we would only consider putting to a Nuttall bred bitch with only 1/2 Nuttall blood so therefore line breeding rather than risk breeding anything too closely related!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
How do you know Foxfolly knew nothing about the dog's history? Just because he was rehomed, it doesnt mean he had no papers, or that the rescue centre knew nothing of his health/parental background....

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the support
grin.gif
See post above
wink.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the support
grin.gif
See post above
wink.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

You're more than welcome
wink.gif
I hate it when people are jumped on, when all that is necessary is a little explanation. Not that you should have to justify yourself to anyone, but it certainly seems that way on here a fair bit!
crazy.gif
grin.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top