To Stallion or not to Stallion...

Is sounds like your heart is set on it as a path ... I personally like stallions to ride but don’t like the way they are kept on most yards and having high enough strong enough fences to have them turned out safely can be a challenge ... life is too short not to follow your dreams but once you make a decision like this it is your responsibility both to yourself and to the horse to make it the right one .
 
blitznbobs said:
Is sounds like your heart is set on it as a path ... I personally like stallions to ride but don’t like the way they are kept on most yards and having high enough strong enough fences to have them turned out safely can be a challenge ... life is too short not to follow your dreams but once you make a decision like this it is your responsibility both to yourself and to the horse to make it the right one .
Click to expand...
Hi BnB.
I think for now while I actually think we could make it work, its probably beyond (certainly) my scope for the moment.
 
HedgePig said:
This is a fair point. I have only seen him perform one movement, I have no idea if he can do others. Again, some wild speculation that he has been trained like some super horse, these threads did not come from me, but from others. Words like Haute Ecole and Capriole were not mine. I happen to think he looks like a magnificent horse. He may be a dud. I have admitted as much but it seems its more fun to repeat the first bit.
Click to expand...

There was no wild speculation.

You described a capriole. Rearing onto his back legs and kicking out. That's a capriole. You don't know the name of it in spite of your girlfriend training with the trainer, or know that the fact he can do a capriole, by definition, means he is some kind of superhorse because most horses will never in a lifetime be able to master that movement, which is the very top of haute école training. That is is another thing making people doubt your story.


.
 
ycbm said:
There was no wild speculation.

You described a capriole. Rearing onto his back legs and kicking out. That's a capriole. You don't know the name of it in spite of your girlfriend training with the trainer, or know that the fact he can do a capriole, by definition, means he is some kind of superhorse because most horses will never in a lifetime be able to master that movement, which is the very top of haute école training. That is is another thing making people doubt your story.


.
Click to expand...
You're in the 'no' column already.

I guess now everyone is convinced this is all the creation of some fantasist online, the question I asked originally is irrelevant. I admitted I don't believe I have the necessary skill for now, in fact I used the term 'ruin'. Since then its been a campaign of telling me I'm right.

What would you have me do to back this up? To bunch of aggressive hidden ID's on an open forum? It just seems pointless and I have admitted this was a mistake and I have apologised for apparently wasting everyone's time. This. Was. A. Mistake.

Hedge.
 
I don't care to judge whether the scenario is true or not. I agree it sounds unlikely, but know that unlikley things do happen. Some of the information given has been misinterpreted and then other people have run with that - some of it has been misrepresented, to the same effect. It's not particularly helpful that old posts can't be edited, because HedgePig can't amend the first post, so some responses are missing information or clarification given later on.

I've read every post. Some people have been blunt, some snippy. Nothing particularly aggressive, though. Certainly nothing outside of the scope of what I'd expect from a public forum. I hate to say it, but if you think this is awful then you're going to struggle posting in public! It's really not :) Some of the posters and posts you've been most upset by (BePositive!) - I've not been able to read into them any of the aggression you seem to have found. But then that is compounded by people popping in with guns blazing and reductive statements like this :D

Yet still the burning question is why this geezer wants to offload his 10 year old in his prime well trained top bloodlines stallion to a bloke he's not seen ride (etc)
Click to expand...

So while I see why you're upset, I still think you are sometimes reading things and tone into posts that aren't apparent to other people, and (to use your own word, sorry!) being far too prickly. This is an interesting situation and one I'd like to follow the outcome of, so please don't storm out, Hedge.

HedgePig said:
I’ve sat here tonight chatting to my gf and we are both of the opinion that if this initial investigation has proven this difficult, that it’s unlikely we will proceed.
Click to expand...

Hopefully this is just hyperbole, because so far your initial investigation sounds like it's been a primary enquiry at a livery yard (which is initially positive), and asking for opinions on a public forum - in which the discussion may not have gone the way you wanted - but surely that's not 'difficult', nor ought that to factor in to your decision as to whether to proceed?!
 
HedgePig said:
Lesson learnt.
I should have placed a great deal more emphasis on the players involved rather than my own lack of experience of stallions. For the record I have not once used the terms "Haute ecole" or "capriole" or similar. You just quoted me from my first post. You used quotes. But if we go back thats not what I said at all, whats the point in writing something if people are going to make up quotes? It is a pity. I have repeatedly tried to steer the topic back to stallions.
Click to expand...

Capriole is there a horse rears then kicks out its back legs. The exact same move that you described in your post. Haute Ecole is the school that teaches these moves. They're attempting to educate you.

We're not impressed with stallions or owners of stallions. Stallions need special arrangements, places with very good fencing if they're going to have any kind of life. Going off to clinics may be difficult with your stallion if mares are present. You can't expect other owners to be pleased to be faced with a stallion if their in season mare plays up. This wouldn't happen with geldings. That's why most people at pleasure level have mares or geldings.
 
MrPerkins said:
I don't care to judge whether the scenario is true or not. I agree it sounds unlikely, but know that unlikley things do happen. Some of the information given has been misinterpreted and then other people have run with that - some of it has been misrepresented, to the same effect. It's not particularly helpful that old posts can't be edited, because HedgePig can't amend the first post, so some responses are missing information or clarification given later on.

I've read every post. Some people have been blunt, some snippy. Nothing particularly aggressive, though. Certainly nothing outside of the scope of what I'd expect from a public forum. I hate to say it, but if you think this is awful then you're going to struggle posting in public! It's really not :) Some of the posters and posts you've been most upset by (BePositive!) - I've not been able to read into them any of the aggression you seem to have found. But then that is compounded by people popping in with guns blazing and reductive statements like this :D



So while I see why you're upset, I still think you are sometimes reading things and tone into posts that aren't apparent to other people, and (to use your own word, sorry!) being far too prickly. This is an interesting situation and one I'd like to follow the outcome of, so please don't storm out, Hedge.



Hopefully this is just hyperbole, because so far your initial investigation sounds like it's been a primary enquiry at a livery yard (which is initially positive), and asking for opinions on a public forum - in which the discussion may not have gone the way you wanted - but surely that's not 'difficult', nor ought that to factor in to your decision as to whether to proceed?!
Click to expand...
MrPerkins you may not believe it but my gf named your post SPECIFICALLY last night as being helpful and the type we should focus on. Once again you have met and exceeded my expectations and I am sincerely thankful. This is exactly the type of post I was seeking. I have asked the forum managers if I can edit my first post but it seems this is impossible so I have had to add layer after layer when to me this all seems quite understandable. Unusual certainly, but then I spent at least 25 paragraphs admitting I was blown away by it. Since then everyone has agreed. But with a more and more cynical tone until I am left with words like scammer. Which really isn't nice. I am afraid it does reflect very poorly on the calibre of many of the people replying and as you say, after 5 relies in a row calling the whole thing suspect I don't think it is unreasonable that I try to offer a 'defence'. But should I be needing to defend myself if people are trying to help?

Sadly as this has continued today, given the fact we are likely to be heavily reliant on the opinion of others, and this avenue is seemingly fraught with criticism (by your own admission) it looks more and more dubious.

I would be more than happy to communicate by DM if you are willing to stay with me to follow this to its conclusion? Hedge.
 
The only reason words like that come up is because people are aware of similar situations where that has been the case and would think it remiss of themselves not to mention it in such a situation that it might be a possibility.

(you can edit posts but only for a certain period of time) - it used to be very short but is longer now (half hour/hour at a guess!)
 
9tails said:
Capriole is there a horse rears then kicks out its back legs. The exact same move that you described in your post. Haute Ecole is the school that teaches these moves. They're attempting to educate you.

We're not impressed with stallions or owners of stallions. Stallions need special arrangements, places with very good fencing if they're going to have any kind of life. Going off to clinics may be difficult with your stallion if mares are present. You can't expect other owners to be pleased to be faced with a stallion if their in season mare plays up. This wouldn't happen with geldings. That's why most people at pleasure level have mares or geldings.
Click to expand...
This final message comes through loud and clear. If you aren't going to breed with a stallion, all you are doing is being perceived like a thin bloke with a pitbull. Your words are clear, "we (as a horse community?) are not impressed with stallions or owners of stallions". That tells me all I need to know about how me and this horse (or any stallion) is likely to be perceived in the wider horse community, which is an important component of horse ownership. Fewer people seem to come to the defence of well-behaved stallions, where again I suspect my Pitbill analogy is probably quite accurate.
 
ester said:
umm you seem to be extending that 'we' to the wider horse community, that's a pretty big leap.
Click to expand...
9tails said exactly this, "We're not impressed with stallions or owners of stallions."

I put wider community to a '?' leaving the option that this may not in fact be with wider community but then that would be for 9tails to qualify who 'we' are should they wish to.
 
HP, you are taking offence at posts by very knowledgeable people on here and many know the pitfalls of owning a stallion. i have been lucky and have only handled 2 stallions which were owned by my friend and they were very well behaved and could be ridden amongst mares with no problems..i have also spent many hours at catherston stud where jennie loriston clarke had quite a few stallions and the most badly behaved was a pony stallion who was quite a handful. jennies big stallions were all well behaved because she was ,and still is, a professional and knew exactly what she was doing. please dont flounce off, it would be nice to know how you get on this weekend and what you will be doing...
 
You also said 'That tells me all I need to know about how me and this horse (or any stallion) is likely to be perceived in the wider horse community ' which is the bit I was responding to.
Stop being over dramatic then :p
 
Just go and ride him, you'll know whether you like him, love him or don't really care about him. The fact that he is a stallion will probably be more of an inconvenience, but one that could be overcome (or he could just be gelded, utlimately if they sold him on it is probably that they didn't think his contribution to the breed would be that interesting).
Now just keep in mind that your friend has a vested interest in this, as he'll be receiving money so take things with a pinch of salt and go with what you see of the horse, he might be a dobbin he might be a fire breathing dragon, we can't tell.
 
ester said:
You also said 'That tells me all I need to know about how me and this horse (or any stallion) is likely to be perceived in the wider horse community ' which is the bit I was responding to.
Stop being over dramatic then :p
Click to expand...
Ha ha I am trying to sound like I understand!! I really am not winning here!! :)
 
I've kind skimmed the rest of the thread and it's all got very jumbled, so I'll just reply to the original post.
Everyone who owns a Stallion at some point has been a first time Stallion Owner. And as such, there will be a good amount of learning, and probably mistakes too.
As long as you can A. Ensure a good quality of life and accommodation for the Stallion and B. Have access to and supervision from experienced Stallion owners to help you, then I don't see why, with your background, you can't give it a go.

I'm not going to comment riding wise, as plenty of people own horses but don't ride them, or have them ridden by others, and I can imagine your GF will be riding him regularly with the current owner/instructor whilst you get back into the swing of things (But I'm speculating here!).

We're all new to everything at some point, it how we go about it that determines how successful or not we are.
 
HedgePig said:
This final message comes through loud and clear. If you aren't going to breed with a stallion, all you are doing is being perceived like a thin bloke with a pitbull. Your words are clear, "we (as a horse community?) are not impressed with stallions or owners of stallions". That tells me all I need to know about how me and this horse (or any stallion) is likely to be perceived in the wider horse community, which is an important component of horse ownership. Fewer people seem to come to the defence of well-behaved stallions, where again I suspect my Pitbill analogy is probably quite accurate.
Click to expand...


It is not at all accurate, it almost seems like you are willfully misinterpreting people which I am sure could not be the case.

You must understand this... we live in a horse rich world in the UK, by that I mean we have far too many. Horses of decent calibre are in want of a good home because to be blunt there are way more horses than good homes. No matter how you want to cut it, a stallion's main reason for being is to breed, whether you as an owner choose to breed it or not. Some are kept entire to see if they can make a name for themselves and then if the do, they are bred from. Many people's perspectives would simply put be this: it is reasonable to expect a breeder to keep a stallion for obvious reasons, it is also reasonable to expect the higher level competitive industry to keep younger upcoming horses entire to assess their suitability for breeding and then make a gelding choice later down the line. But there is simply no rational for keeping a horse entire that is not going to be used to breed. It just throws up added complications in the ownership and management of the animal which will most likely affect the animal itself. And this is the reaction that you will be faced with if you have a horse for pleasure but keep it entire. It will be frowned upon and there is no reasonable argument that you would be able to come up with to defend keeping him entire since he will not be a breeding prospect.

So, in answer to stallion yes or no. No. In answer to the horse itself, I would cautiously explore, but only if I could hand on heart say that I intended to geld it.

Also, with the utmost respect to your OH, she has a horse, classical riding is more her thing, this is not a horse being purchased for her. It is one for you to ride and enjoy. It seems odd albeit well meaning of you to purchase a horse based on your OH's suitability to ride it. These horses are beautiful and mesmerising but I am not entirely convinced from your background that it would be the right horse for you even if you had not had 20 years out of the saddle. Now obviously I don't know you, but from your history that you have expanded on, it would seem far more up your street to perhaps go for a decent tb or tb x, that you can hack, jump do a bit of everything on. If you wish to pursue a classical route do this on the side get some lessons from a good classical trainer on a schoolmaster and see if this is really something you want. Personally I would never want to give up the adrenaline buzz of fast rides, soaring over jumps and wind in hair for tedious and frustrating schooling exercises. It would frustrate me to death. For some people it is all they love about riding but not for everyone. I also would not want to dive straight in there without knowing for sure.

In short, I would say that stallion yes or no... no. This horse in particular, probably no. For your OH yes, sounds like its up her street and she has the technical capability in this sphere, but not for you from what you have said. I would personally keep looking for a horse that suits your type of riding historically.
 
Last edited:
Prancer & Vixen/Grinch said:
It is not at all accurate, it almost seems like you are willfully misinterpreting people which I am sure could not be the case.

You must understand this... we live in a horse rich world in the UK, by that I mean we have far too many. Horses of decent calibre are in want of a good home because to be blunt there are way more horses than good homes. No matter how you want to cut it, a stallion's main reason for being is to breed, whether you as an owner choose to breed it or not. Some are kept entire to see if they can make a name for themselves and then if the do, they are bred from. Many people's perspectives would simply put be this: it is reasonable to expect a breeder to keep a stallion for obvious reasons, it is also reasonable to expect the higher level competitive industry to keep younger upcoming horses entire to assess their suitability for breeding and then make a gelding choice later down the line. But there is simply no rational for keeping a horse entire that is not going to be used to breed. It just throws up added complications in the ownership and management of the animal which will most likely affect the animal itself. And this is the reaction that you will be faced with if you have a horse for pleasure but keep it entire. It will be frowned upon and there is no reasonable argument that you would be able to come up with to defend keeping him entire since he will not be a breeding prospect.

So, in answer to stallion yes or no. No. In answer to the horse itself, I would cautiously explore, but only if I could hand on heart say that I intended to geld it.

Also, with the utmost respect to your OH, she has a horse, classical riding is more her thing, this is not a horse being purchased for her. It is one for you to ride and enjoy. It seems odd albeit well meaning of you to purchase a horse based on your OH's suitability to ride it. These horses are beautiful and mesmerising but I am not entirely convinced from your background that it would be the right horse for you even if you had not had 20 years out of the saddle. Now obviously I don't know you, but from your history that you have expanded on, it would seem far more up your street to perhaps go for a decent tb or tb x, that you can hack, jump do a bit of everything on. If you wish to pursue a classical route do this on the side get some lessons from a good classical trainer on a schoolmaster and see if this is really something you want. Personally I would never want to give up the adrenaline buzz of fast rides, soaring over jumps and wind in hair for tedious and frustrating schooling exercises. It would frustrate me to death. For some people it is all they love about riding but not for everyone. I also would not want to dive straight in there without knowing for sure.

In short, I would say that stallion yes or no... no. This horse in particular, probably no. For your OH yes, sounds like its up her street and she has the technical capability in this sphere, but not for you from what you have said. I would personally keep looking for a horse that suits your type of riding historically.
Click to expand...
Hi P&V/G,
I apologise if my reply seemed wilful, it seems the harder I am trying to understand people's opinion on a stallion, I swiftly receive a rebuke from someone on the other side of the argument. Starting to lose the will to live... :)

This is a very reasonable post thank you, and it sets out the fact that I have not been actively in the saddle for some time, other than the odd hack a few times a year. Personally I am process and outcome driven as a personality so the idea of taking a year to achieve something through minute adjustments to enjoy success is exactly the sort of thing I love, but I would not be so bold as to assume that translates well into my riding personality. You also make a fair point about my gf and this horse but I agree we cannot curve fit this to meet my needs by proxy of her skills.

Your point about too many horses already needing a good home is fair too. I have a rescue dog for exactly this reason who I adore. I shall give this some more thought, thank you. Hedge.
 
tiggipop said:
well my thoughts (having a stallion of my own!) if you have this opinion of stallions being demons etc how on earth are you going to manage to handle one? mine is a total poppet, but is handled confidently, correctly and consistently and he KNOWS the boundaries.. He lives just as my geldings do, but I have my own property and therefore he gets daily turnout with other horses around him and is stabled along side them.

I understand that in this country not many livery yards can/will accommodate stallions, which is fine.
Click to expand...
Another who has their own stallion, and has handled many stallions and colts over the years. Horses pick up so quickly on their handlers feelings. I would say no as you have no experience of them. Also, how big is this boy? most Lippizzaners are under 15 hands as I found out to my surprise when seeing John Lassetters' many years ago.
 
I can't help on the stallion issue other than to say that owning a mare cuts down my choice of yards so owning a stallion on livery must be very difficult.

What I did want to say is before you go and see this horse have a very serious think about why you want to buy a horse and what you want to do with that and keep this firmly in mind at all times.

Are you looking for:
A) a horse to get you back in the saddle after a long break that you can hack, have lessons on, go on pleasure rides, maybe even hunt and explore what if any competitive discipline suits you.
B) a horse to progress your girlfriend's classical dressage skills
C) a horse to own while a professional trains/competes/shows it to a high standard and you are "the owner"

All three are valid choices but the suitable horse in each case is different. Too many people intend to buy horse A or horse B (albeit normally for their own competition aims) but with the help of a friendly trainer end up with horse C. That doesn't necessarily mean the trainer is scamming them, it can be due to misunderstanding aims, or not matching horse to rider well, or not wanting to lose a good horse entirely when circumstances dictate they should sell.

Many people end up buying horses that don't make them happy and aren't suitable for their needs. It is an expensive and time-consuming hobby if you aren't loving it.

So pretend you haven't been offered this horse. Write down your hopes and dreams and aims for horse ownership. Then consider whether this is the horse to help you live those hopes and dreams.
 
HP, I'm intrigued. What's changed in your life that you have barely ridden for 20 years in spite of having a girlfriend who owns a horse, and now want to go the whole hog and buy your own, potentially keeping it in a different yard from your girlfriend's horse? No worries if it's off topic and you don't want to discuss it.

.
 
eggs said:
fyi I did reply earlier in this thread so I am not new to it.... (you even liked my last comment to help jog your memory)

Also I still think your gf is in a much better position to advise you as she knows you much better than a bunch of random people on a forum.

PS you can put me in whichever column you wish it really doesn't bother me
Click to expand...

I think what H means is that she has two columns....for and against....yes and no (as to whether it's a good idea or not.) And you are in the No column. She did not mean offence.
 
ycbm said:
HP, I'm intrigued. What's changed in your life that you have barely ridden for 20 years in spite of having a girlfriend who owns a horse, and now want to go the whole hog and buy your own, potentially keeping it in a different yard from your girlfriend's horse? No worries if it's off topic and you don't want to discuss it.

.
Click to expand...

Not the OP but I hadn't ridden for at least 10 years before I bought my TB nutter. My reason was a horse that reared and landed backwards on me.....broke my back at T12/L1.....spent 6 months in hospital learning how to walk again. Another few years recuperating. Married a rich bloke.....bought my horse against everyone's advice. I had NO muscle grip, but had a good seat and good balance. So there can be many reasons.....all legit.
 
dree said:
Not the OP but I hadn't ridden for at least 10 years before I bought my TB nutter. My reason was a horse that reared and landed backwards on me.....broke my back at T12/L1.....spent 6 months in hospital learning how to walk again. Another few years recuperating. Married a rich bloke.....bought my horse against everyone's advice. I had NO muscle grip, but had a good seat and good balance. So there can be many reasons.....all legit.
Click to expand...

You broke your back, didn't ride for five years, and then bought one without having ridden, not knowing whether you would be able to ride at all?

Breaks are common. I had a five year break myself when I found boys and married. But I went to a riding school a few times before I bought horse.

.
 
i havent read every reply so apologies if its been asked ....but OP have you considered what would happen if you fell off this horse (as is likely after such a break) in an none enclosed place?

having stallions brings all kinds of added pressures to even the most experienced rider, let alone a novice.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top