To those who doubted us

moomin, the before pic that christmassparkles posted is certainly not the worst one that I think we have seen of lady, hence in this instance getting weight off is likely to be deemed the least of the two evils here :).

I am struggling to score the mare at a 5 currently and I do think it is hard to tell from pictures where the horse is not stood on a level surface and from decent angles (side/front and behind) at the very least if not getting your hands on them!
 
But previously stated a horse should be a three?

Now call me old school, but a horse is either healthy, emaciated or overweight.

Why involve a numbering system set with no real 1-skinny 10-fat designed and implied by an organisation?

People really do think into things too much.
 
mountainview22 said:
But previously stated a horse should be a three?

Now call me old school, but a horse is either healthy, emaciated or overweight.

Why involve a numbering system set with no real 1-skinny 10-fat designed and implied by an organisation?

People really do think into things too much.
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It wasn't invented by WHW. It was invented by vets and is considered a medically valid way of assessing a horse's condition.

And there are, of course, things between emaciated and healthy, so the scale covers them too.

How would you like people to assess their horse if not by condition scoring?
 
mountainview22 said:
But previously stated a horse should be a three?

Now call me old school, but a horse is either healthy, emaciated or overweight.

Why involve a numbering system set with no real 1-skinny 10-fat designed and implied by an organisation?

People really do think into things too much.
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The numbering system is one to five and is a very precise measure used by vets. Each score has a complete description and everyone should, in my opinion, know how to score their own horse. You already do, and you know how to do it so well that you don't realise your own skill in it, it's the less skilled who need the scoring by numbers.

There are far too many 4s and 5s out there getting laminitis.
 
ester said:
moomin, the before pic that christmassparkles posted is certainly not the worst one that I think we have seen of lady, hence in this instance getting weight off is likely to be deemed the least of the two evils here :).

I am struggling to score the mare at a 5 currently and I do think it is hard to tell from pictures where the horse is not stood on a level surface and from decent angles (side/front and behind) at the very least if not getting your hands on them!
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I agree with all of this. Nothing like giving them a good wobble to work out how fat they are :p :D

I only say a bit over as to me any sign of a ridge over the bum says fat, and there clearly is one in the pic I chose to focus on. However, I am used to looking at TB types and it can be a real art to condition score, especially if you're only used to looking at the same shaped horse over and over again. Don't know what my point is really... I'll shut up now!
 
ester said:
moomin, the before pic that christmassparkles posted is certainly not the worst one that I think we have seen of lady, hence in this instance getting weight off is likely to be deemed the least of the two evils here :).

I am struggling to score the mare at a 5 currently and I do think it is hard to tell from pictures where the horse is not stood on a level surface and from decent angles (side/front and behind) at the very least if not getting your hands on them!
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I see that it is trying to get the lesser of two evils and hats off to OP as I said. I really am not trying to be horrible at all, I think people should just be aware that overweight is quite often a lot worse than underweight. The pic I saw on here (I never saw the previous ones) didn't look all that bad (poor yes but not by any means emaciated). But if it's right that the other pics were worse then yes, I agree that it at least it's something for OP to have got this weight on the horse.

MV - the idea of a staged condition scoring system is that the warning signs can be spotted before a horse gets either emaciated or morbidly obese - so yes the stages inbetween are important, as they are with human beings too. It is not adequate for a grading to simply go from emaciated, healthy, obese.
 
ChristmasSparkles said:
Oh my god. She's too fat, she's too skinny, there's no pleasing is there! She's done EVERYTHING suggested to her in the original post, which I remember vividly, and now has a mare looking a complete 180 to what she did before. What is WRONG with some people?

I'm sorry but this [sorry for posting your pics Jade...hope you don't mind!]:


SDC10333.jpg



To this:

563906_10150749409722743_662877742_11450003_259295068_n.jpg


Anyone who can say a bad word about that effort and change, should be shot.
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Exactly. OP you have done fantastically with her. When you tYhink of what she looked like and especially with her age. Good for you. I'd almost be proud of the she's too fat posts, knowing what she looked like before! :p:p:p
 
Right, so Joe public is able to now give me a vetenary diagnosis of my horses weight?

Can someone please tell me, is it 1 - 5 or 1-10 ?

Um, I'm now a bad/irresponsible person as I've not revised a vetenary scoring system?

I think not. I'm afraid, whilst a vet may tell me a number, I'd have no clue what they meant.

They're either healthy, emaciated or fat, not a 5 etc.

way too much in depth term going on.
 
In my humble opinion, without hijacking this thread or reference to it, a score of 4 or 5 is as dangerous as a 1. Although were in danger of going back to the 19 stone thread now. . But having dealt with a fat horse for years, despite hunting and eventing her (very successfully) her living out on fresh air all year. She was still a chunky. Whilst having skinnys aswell, The fatty was a bigger concern for me. Health wise.
 
mountainview22 said:
Right, so Joe public is able to now give me a vetenary diagnosis of my horses weight?

Can someone please tell me, is it 1 - 5 or 1-10 ?

Um, I'm now a bad/irresponsible person as I've not revised a vetenary scoring system?

I think not. I'm afraid, whilst a vet may tell me a number, I'd have no clue what they meant.

They're either healthy, emaciated or fat, not a 5 etc.

way too much in depth term going on.
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There are two separate systems. one uses 1-5 and one uses 1-10. I personally find 1-10 a bit of a faff and use 1-5 myself.

The whole point is that the system empowers joe public to know exactly what they're horse's condition is, and to address any issues before they become a medical issue.

Not quite sure what your problem with the idea is?
 
JT, I know with frank that his bottom is the first to go ;) if I stand behind him often enough I can spot it before it sneaks up on me :p. But then I do have pics when I bought him where you really can see the fat/cellulite to put me off letting that happen again and will do my best even if lameish pony + spring grass doesn't equate to a great plan on that front :mad:.

eta 1-5 tends to be uk, 1-9 (henneke scale) is more USA

and guido16 even though we know that this horse is not inherently 'a fatty' if she was she would have been fat previously, I do think it makes a bit of a difference long term if honest.
 
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Theres 2 diffrent scales to condition score on a 1-5 and a 1-10 and theres loads of papers out there if you want to read up on them all and why its important and how they were developed. They have been designed to make it easy to assess your animals weight and they are used on not just horses but dogs and farm animals too.
 
I remember the first few threads Jade posted about lady.. and my god the difference now! Well done for taking all our advice on board and turning her around. I know its hard to get the weight on older horses, especially finer types. Older horses carry weight differently, do you know if she's had foals? that might be why it looks like she's carrying a bit of a belly, out mare always looks a bit portly but she's had 4 foals and we've had her on a weigh bridge to prove she was at the right weight, so don't worry! I agree with some, it might be an idea to get her tested for cushings but otherwise i think she looks great. I'd ignore JDFT... the horse in her sig looks fatter than your girl.
Keep up the good work :)
 
"Quite frankly, if there is a small fat pad on the horse, who gives a flying fig."

This.
Well done on turning your mare around Jadey, you've done a great job. :)
 
Lady La La said:
"Quite frankly, if there is a small fat pad on the horse, who gives a flying fig."

This.
Well done on turning your mare around Jadey, you've done a great job. :)
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If that is the way it's going then we could also argue "Quite frankly, if there are numerous ribs showing on the horse, who gives a flying fig". It is proven that being overweight is as bad as being underweight. People should be trying their best to get their horses within the healthy range, not either end of the scale.
 
Aw, Jade, she looks so different! Well done on turning things around with her, and I hope the two of you have a lovely summer together xx
 
Moomin1 said:
If that is the way it's going then we could also argue "Quite frankly, if there are numerous ribs showing on the horse, who gives a flying fig". It is proven that being overweight is as bad as being underweight. People should be trying their best to get their horses within the healthy range, not either end of the scale.
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I read 'a small fat pad' as being the equivilent of 'a bit ribby'. Not ideal but not a disaster especially if the owner is aware of and working on the issue (ie aiming for the healthy range).
 
amymay said:
Oh Moomin, give it a rest now....
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Oh go away amymay - you just have to comment on my posts all the time and it's getting irritating now! If you're bored with the topic - move on to another one. I am not bored of the topic, so I will continue to read and comment. I haven't said anything nasty - so don't turn it into something that is.
 
Moonin, the debate was never about whether being fat is better or worse than being thin...
This thread is about a young girl that has learnt some valuable lessons over the last year or so, and who has acted upon the advice that she was given.
If you think that she needs berating for that, I fail to understand why...

Do as Amymay suggests, and hive it a rest for a while, eh?
 
Wagtail said:
Really? :confused:
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From the picture posted on this thread - yes, really. That is nowhere near emaciation. Poor condition yes - maybe even very poor condition. Although someone (can't remember who) has said that the horse was in much worse condition at other points so fair enough (I wasn't on HHO then so don't know the full history).
 
Lady La La said:
Moonin, the debate was never about whether being fat is better or worse than being thin...
This thread is about a young girl that has learnt some valuable lessons over the last year or so, and who has acted upon the advice that she was given.
If you think that she needs berating for that, I fail to understand why...

Do as Amymay suggests, and hive it a rest for a while, eh?
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Erm, I have only posted praise to the OP - and suggested that she now needs to reduce the amount of weight her horse is carrying. I haven't been rude to her, and have said that she deserves a pat on the back for what she has done. Just because I am now debating whether there's any difference in a horse being underweight to overweight, does that warrant an attack on me now does it?!
 
Lady La La said:
An attack? Really?
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I will not for one second 'do as Amymay suggests' - I am my own person and secondly I get sick to death of Amymay feeling the petty need to constantly disagree and comment on my posts. I don't automatically respond negatively to her posts.
 
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