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Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
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It makes Robert Whitaker doing puissance bareback even more impressiveAh I thought that was a real shame for Fernandez, he wasn't giving that horse a bad round at all. But I guess if you're not so secure in the saddle, that sort of thing can happen easily at 1m20!!
Why does that have anything to do with being utterly horrified at what those horses are put through?
It doesn't, just pointing out your cannot compare MP to the main three disciplines.
Did you watch any of the men's? Much better, and again, not disimilar to what we have ALL seen out and about every weekend. Does that horrify you too? Regardless of level, basic welfare is basic welfare - why do so many people turn a blind eye to what happens out at BE 90/100 with riders who probably actually have more experience and know better than these MP competitors? Or people who use their horses as a glorified movable chair out hunting? Yet there's utter uproar about the modern penthalon every four years?
The double standard is what gets on my tits. Perhaps that's the issue - MP riding is far closer to home than some people (generally, not personally) would care to admit...
yeah i have to agree with this. it's on TV and in the news because there are medals at stake so everyone is seeing it. but like you say the issues are not unique to MP as a sport.It doesn't, just pointing out your cannot compare MP to the main three disciplines.
Did you watch any of the men's? Much better, and again, not disimilar to what we have ALL seen out and about every weekend. Does that horrify you too? Regardless of level, basic welfare is basic welfare - why do so many people turn a blind eye to what happens out at BE 90/100 with riders who probably actually have more experience and know better than these MP competitors? Or people who use their horses as a glorified movable chair out hunting? Yet there's utter uproar about the modern penthalon every four years?
The double standard is what gets on my tits. Perhaps that's the issue - MP riding is far closer to home than some people (generally, not personally) would care to admit...
In Japan during the wet season it ought to have taken place on grass that was an terrible decision .
It doesn't, just pointing out your cannot compare MP to the main three disciplines.
Did you watch any of the men's? Much better, and again, not disimilar to what we have ALL seen out and about every weekend. Does that horrify you too? Regardless of level, basic welfare is basic welfare - why do so many people turn a blind eye to what happens out at BE 90/100 with riders who probably actually have more experience and know better than these MP competitors? Or people who use their horses as a glorified movable chair out hunting? Yet there's utter uproar about the modern penthalon every four years?
The double standard is what gets on my tits. Perhaps that's the issue - MP riding is far closer to home than some people (generally, not personally) would care to admit...
I can’t believe anyone is defending this “sport” tbh.
I agree with this. I definitely noticed a difference in the dressage since 2012 and that was after many years of people saying how bad it looked, and then obviously the better pictures started winning. It takes time to filter down but it does happen, and I think future dressage will be even more relaxed both professionally and amateur.How can you stop the lower level crap if stuff like that is shown all around the world at the Olympics every 4 years as acceptable?
It has to start somewhere and it can't start in the middle if the middle riders can point to a world championships as being acceptable.
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ALL of these horses are tested at the level, all are capable of going clear. The issue is that some horses are forgiving and some are not. Even the two who caused issues for the German and Irish rider yesterday started out ok, they just got to the point where they said well if you aren’t riding me I’m not doing it with their first round riders which then gave knock on problems to the second round riders.MP makes sense as a natural progression from PC tetrathlon but I am not sure it works as an Olympic event. Compared to the heptathlon and triathlon the competitors don't seem to be of the same standard. Maybe having riders compete on their own horse would make the most sense. I think for an Olympic standard a 1.20m course isn't that a big an ask. But on a strange horse, that is then used twice there are way too many variables to make it a fair test.
How can you stop the lower level crap if stuff like that is shown all around the world at the Olympics every 4 years as acceptable?
It has to start somewhere and it can't start in the middle if the middle riders can point to a world championships as being acceptable.
Me neither ?
Perhaps some people are forgetting that there is big money changing hands for the "privilege" of showing this systematic abuse as entertainment?
ALL of these horses are tested at the level, all are capable of going clear. The issue is that some horses are forgiving and some are not. Even the two who caused issues for the German and Irish rider yesterday started out ok, they just got to the point where they said well if you aren’t riding me I’m not doing it with their first round riders which then gave knock on problems to the second round riders.
Whilst what we watched was definitely not pretty and if it was an ongoing reflection of how they are normally treated then I would consider it a welfare issue, but two rounds of being ridden poorly and unsympathetically is highly unlikely to cause any serious welfare issues.
The decathletes, heptathletes, triathletes are not dissimilar, they would be highly unlikely to qualify for the olympics in any of their individual sports. Men’s javelin for example the decathlete throws this year ranged from 50-75m with the actual javelin throwers being in the 90m range
yeah me too. plus i don't buy that the middle riders can't lead improvements because of a particular, fairly niche, thing going on elsewhere. that's a massive cop out. All of us need to get our houses in order. it's too easy to point at other people cocking up and cast a blind eye over the stuff happening in your own backyard.I think the changes for the sport will help change that. I'm also not saying what we've watched is 'top notch' but I've seen worse week in week out and for far longer than one MP show jumping round.
Do the eventers jumping tired horses count as abuse? Does the round and subsequent fall of the Irish rider's horse count as abuse?
Agree with this.
The issue is that some horses are forgiving and some are not. .......
Whilst what we watched was definitely not pretty and if it was an ongoing reflection of how they are normally treated then I would consider it a welfare issue, but two rounds of being ridden poorly and unsympathetically is highly unlikely to cause any serious welfare
Yes. This should not have happened. He should have retired two jumps previous. He has been widely condemned by many on here for this.Does the round and subsequent fall of the Irish rider's horse count as abuse?
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yeah me too. plus i don't buy that the middle riders can't lead improvements because of a particular, fairly niche, thing going on elsewhere. that's a massive cop out. All of us need to get our houses in order. it's too easy to point at other people cocking up and cast a blind eye over the stuff happening in your own backyard.
This is the key point, I think. If we want equestrian events to remain in the Olympics, they have got to be whiter than white. This has been a tricky games tbh - some very tired horses in the XC, Jet Set being PTS, falls in the SJ, that horrible nosebleed, and then some shocking riding in the modern pentathlon. For many people, this is the only time they will see horses competing and we absolutely have to show them that horse welfare is the most important thing.If we want the riding of horses to be banned altogether in future, then excusing the poor treatment of horses for "world class" sport and human entertainment, on the basis that it's temporary and won't cause lasting harm, is imo an effective way to go about making that happen.
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i feel unable to challenge them just because so many people seem to think it's fine to just buy a horse and then ride it poorly, treat it unfairly, talk about how it's taking the p or being a tw*t because it won't let them catch it etc, the whole attitude towards horses at many levels is toxic. I honestly don't think having MP as an olympic sport is the problem for 99% of horsesNobody is saying that middle riders can't, shouldn't or don't lead by example.
But people who are abusing their own horses, imo, aren't likely to stop if they see stuff like that as acceptable at the Olympics, and personally I would feel unable to challenge them directly if this is seen on a world stage as acceptable.
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how did the horse that was punched get on in the mens , i didnt watch any of the mens as i couldnt finish watching the womens as i hated it
as TP says he was not in the draw for the men's jumping.how did the horse that was punched get on in the mens , i didnt watch any of the mens as i couldnt finish watching the womens as i hated it
i feel unable to challenge them just because so many people seem to think it's fine to just buy a horse and then ride it poorly, treat it unfairly, talk about how it's taking the p or being a tw*t because it won't let them catch it etc, the whole attitude towards horses at many levels is toxic. I honestly don't think having MP as an olympic sport is the problem for 99% of horses
ALL of these horses are tested at the level, all are capable of going clear. The issue is that some horses are forgiving and some are not. Even the two who caused issues for the German and Irish rider yesterday started out ok, they just got to the point where they said well if you aren’t riding me I’m not doing it with their first round riders which then gave knock on problems to the second round riders.
Whilst what we watched was definitely not pretty and if it was an ongoing reflection of how they are normally treated then I would consider it a welfare issue, but two rounds of being ridden poorly and unsympathetically is highly unlikely to cause any serious welfare issues.
The decathletes, heptathletes, triathletes are not dissimilar, they would be highly unlikely to qualify for the olympics in any of their individual sports. Men’s javelin for example the decathlete throws this year ranged from 50-75m with the actual javelin throwers being in the 90m range
I'm not defending it, if you look back at my posts on this thread i've consistently said the riding needs to improve if it's to stay (I do think that is possible as there have been multiple rounds that were a very good standard ). and I think it should come under FEI rules because I have a *higher* degree of faith in their ability to do consistent stewarding even if there are issues remaining.Neither do I but knowing your feelings about our right to use horses for our pleasure, I'm a wee bit baffled by your apparent defence of this at world level. 2 wrongs never made right, and for me a wrong sanctioned by world level organisation and shown to millions as acceptable is many times the wrong of anything I see done locally.
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I just think it's tricky ground, to say that those people are too rubbish, but naturally we are all perfectly fine horsepeople with no issues worth examining.
Hmmmmm but the reason for that being insufficient skill for the task at hand having an impact on horse welfare?Nobody has said that, have they? They haven't even said these riders shouldn't be riding. All anyone is saying is that this shouldn't any longer be an acceptable part of organised sport at world level.
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