Tokyo Pentathlon SJ

splashgirl45

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the horse should have been eliminated in the previous round but as the allotted time ran out he was not. he had obviously shut down so was not suitable to carry on in the competition, and that is the fault of the admin not the rider, however the horse was napping in the collecting ring and i would have thought it would have been more sensible for the coach to approach the organisers to point out that the horse was not suitable for the job rather than telling the rider to whip him which was obviously not working. what amazes me in this pc world is that if horse and/or rider fall they can continue until the second fall, that seems so wrong, it could lead to serious injury
 

ester

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I was sad enough to rifle through the rules re. changing horse.
They don't copy and paste very well though- page 66 for the vet stuff (which seems to concentrate only on lameness which I think is a flaw) and page 70 for other reasons.
and bit on if the rider thinks the horse is not fit :
Before mounting, a pentathlete may ask for an examination of their horse if they think
it is not fit to start. After consultation with the Veterinarian, the UIPM TD/NTO may
decide to permit a change of the horse.

https://www.uipmworld.org/sites/default/files/uipm_comp_rules_and_reg_2018_a5_v3.pdf
Here is my post/link to the rules again.
 

Orangehorse

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Shouldn't the competitors be able to watch "their" horse being show jumped over 1 round by its usual rider, and then let the competitor get on after 10 minutes or so of rest, let them get to know the horse, as done now, and then go in to jump. So they would have the confidence to know that the horse is capable of completing the phase, and then it would really be the skill of the rider being tested.
 

Fred66

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the horse should have been eliminated in the previous round but as the allotted time ran out he was not. he had obviously shut down so was not suitable to carry on in the competition, and that is the fault of the admin not the rider, however the horse was napping in the collecting ring and i would have thought it would have been more sensible for the coach to approach the organisers to point out that the horse was not suitable for the job rather than telling the rider to whip him which was obviously not working. what amazes me in this pc world is that if horse and/or rider fall they can continue until the second fall, that seems so wrong, it could lead to serious injury
As far as I could tell he had accumulated the 4 disobedience’s required to eliminate the first rider and the following rider could have asked for a horse exchange. Possibly they slipped up but once she got on then she lost the opportunity to challenge.
 

Kat

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As far as I could tell he had accumulated the 4 disobedience’s required to eliminate the first rider and the following rider could have asked for a horse exchange. Possibly they slipped up but once she got on then she lost the opportunity to challenge.
Apparently he only refused three times before the time ran down so a substitution wasn't permitted.

It seems the definition of a refusal is different in pentathlon as I agree that it looked like more than 3.
 

HashRouge

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Here is my post/link to the rules again.
So I read somewhere (wish I could find the link!) that her coach or someone linked said they'd asked to change horse due to its performance in the previous round, but were told that they couldn't as it had only refused three times. According to the rules he would have had to refused four times for this to be allowed. I'm not sure why they fact that he essentially refused to move until the clock ran out wasn't taken into consideration...
It might have been better if they'd perhaps argued that he wasn't fit to start/ it was a horse welfare issue. You'd hope that would have been taken more seriously!

Ultimately, I don't like the way she rode or handled him, but I also don't think she should have been sat on him in the first place as he clearly should have been withdrawn after his first round.
 

ester

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Shouldn't the competitors be able to watch "their" horse being show jumped over 1 round by its usual rider, and then let the competitor get on after 10 minutes or so of rest, let them get to know the horse, as done now, and then go in to jump. So they would have the confidence to know that the horse is capable of completing the phase, and then it would really be the skill of the rider being tested.
They do! Albeit days not 10 minutes before, I think them having to do 2 warm ups/rounds was sufficient in the heat.
 

MagicMelon

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I also had an xracer that was fab in warm up but napped badly and reared in ring. He also may have associated the ring with the previous round that went badly if the first warm up was OK. He did seem a sensitive type which made him an unlikely candidate for MP sadly.
Me too, I had a warmblood who would jump anything of any height at home and in training but put him in the ring and he'd just nap until we got eliminated. I found out later that he'd been beaten by his previous owners in the ring (who had backed him) to the point people actually recognised him because of it. He just didnt want to know so as I wanted to jump I sold him to a hacking home where he never had to jump again. Looks like this poor horse needs the same!
 

laura_nash

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dropped that ball then
'no animal welfare issues to answer '
'Inhumane treatment of animals in any form will not be tolerated, '
ermmm
I think it's now clear they can't or won't put their own house in order. Something needs to be done before this tiny sport ruins it for everyone. I wonder what the process is to throw a sport out of the Olympics?
 

Quigleyandme

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I don‘t know if I read it on this thread or elsewhere but MP is based on the skills needed by a soldier to escape capture so why can’t the showjumping element be subbed by climbing or assault course or something that doesn’t necessitate an animal?
 
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Observation from Dr David Marlin on the disciplinary panel findings.

WEAK, ARROGANT AND NAIVE - UIPM DISCIPLINARY PANEL FINDINGS ON KIM REISNER & ANNIKA SCHLEU AT TOKYO 2020 MODERN PENTATHLON JUMPING

The following words come to mind after reading the findings of the UIPM Disciplinary Panel published yesterday online – Weak. Arrogant. Naïve.

Whilst the panel upheld sanctions at Tokyo and further sanctioned coach KIM REISNER (GER), it is astounding that no action is to be taken against the rider ANNIKA SCHLEU (GER).

“Annika Schleu, representing Germany as an athlete, was found not guilty of excessive use of the whip and spurs and no action will be taken”

This is DESPITE the fact that they have this rule:

Rule 4.6.8. Disqualification (as per UIPM 2018 Competition Rules)
A pentathlete or team is disqualified for:
i. unsportsmanlike conduct or contempt of officials;
ii. rapping or beating a horse and all other cases of cruelty and/or ill treatment of a horse;

To me SCHLEU was guilty of both “unsportsmanlike behaviour” AND “beating a horse”.

As far as I can recall SCHLEU at one stage hit SAINT BOY 6-7 times in 2-3 seconds. Is that not a “beating”?

So despite all their promises, the UIPM seems to have decided not to respond to the outcry from equestrians and the lay public. Why? Are they weak? Scared that there will be more “tantrums” from athletes and their membership. I received plenty of abuse from within MP for raising concerns. Are they arrogant? They don’t think they have to do anything and can just carry on as they have always done? Are they naïve? Do they think now we are a month on everyone will have lost interest? Or maybe all three.
 

cauda equina

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Perhaps it's damage limitation - there's a petition doing the rounds on change.org to ditch all equestrian sports at the Olympics and the Modern Pentathlon fiasco forms a large part of its argument
 

Tiddlypom

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Modern pentathlon’s governing body has secretly voted to remove horse riding from the sport and replace it with cycling, multiple sources have told the Guardian.

The decision, which is said to have been taken by the UIPM’s executive board in recent days, was hastened by the distressing scenes at the Tokyo Olympics when a horse was punched by a German coach after refusing to jump a fence.

The former British modern pentathlete, Kate Allenby, who won a bronze for Team GB at the Sydney Olympics, told the Guardian any move to replace riding would be a “disaster” for the sport.

“This needs talking about because it’s not modern pentathlon if it hasn’t got riding in it,” she added.
 

jnb

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I have always said, the outcry after the MP needed to tread carefully as as recently as 2008 or so, moves were afoot to ditch equestrian full stop, from the Olympics. Looks like this has handed the IOC the stick to beat equestrianism with, quite literally. :(
 

Rowreach

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MP had its chance and failed to put its own house in order. I have no problem with that decision, no bicycles will be traumatised by being ridden by these athletes.

The Olympics showcases sports that people don't know a lot about, which tends to raise interest and opinions (like the discovery of curling and boccia), and inevitably leads to questions about the ethics of horse sport. Taking it out of the Olympics might actually save equestrianism in the wider sense.
 

ElectricXmasTree

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I have always said, the outcry after the MP needed to tread carefully as as recently as 2008 or so, moves were afoot to ditch equestrian full stop, from the Olympics. Looks like this has handed the IOC the stick to beat equestrianism with, quite literally. :(
Which is such a shame since it's the modern pentathlon thats not even governed by the FEI.
 

jnb

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I'm not sure it has handed them a stick, MP equestrianism is very different to the rest.
I absolutely agree with you but I distinctly remember Princess Anne defending Equestrian very rigorously when there was an attempt to remove it from the Olympics due to adverse weather (the excuse)

I think it was Atlanta - there was a very real chance all Equestrian Sports would be dropped. No sport is safe from being dropped that is abundantly clear.
 
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splashgirl45

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i think if its not dropped they need to make it the first sport event so the athletes should be less wound up, i think the fact that it made the difference between gold and nothing contributed to the desperation of the rider and her team. still thats no excuse for the fiasco and the treatment of that horse but may have been part of the problem
 
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