Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Riders who should not be attempting a course of this standard. Poor horse.
Tokyo Showjumping thread
- Thread starter Bellaboo18
- Start date
Bellaboo18
Well-Known Member
Completely agree with this but I saw it in the eventing as well.
NinjaPony
Well-Known Member
Interesting comparison with the eventing where the course has been downgraded for the benefit of smaller nations, I wonder whether the same needs to happen for SJ too.
Kat
Well-Known Member
Not good from the Israeli, took him a while to get up too.
Then the Mexican horse taking a dislike to the wall.
There are a lot struggling.
Then the Mexican horse taking a dislike to the wall.
There are a lot struggling.
Bellaboo18
Well-Known Member
Good point.
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
The “bigger” nations aren’t shining either.
m1stify
Well-Known Member
My team also! Yes he should have retired. I just thought maybe as I am not a top showjumper to try to understand why not, giving him the benefit of the doubt.
I don't like this 3 on a team rule - I think if they could drop his score he would have retired. But I agree he should have.
Maybe would be less pressure on the riders if they still had the old format.
NinjaPony
Well-Known Member
Agreed, but that was more of a general musing about the format too. I do think having the fourth rider would take some pressure off too, can’t understand the point really of getting them out there without letting them compete.
Bradsmum
Well-Known Member
Long time since I've seen so many horses fall during a round. Perhaps it is too big/complex for some of the horses.
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
Two horses on the floor, numerous horses looking like they are struggling physically and mentally with the questions asked?
And this is enjoyable?
Nicnac
Well-Known Member
Crikey - managed to catch Holly's round between meetings and then just logged back on to see the bloke have a crashing fall. Looked like he was knocked out. The Argentinian was pretty disastrous too.
Interesting that the Eventing isn't 5* level to take into account less experienced nations but show jumping doesn't seem to do the same. The track looks as big as any top level ones I've seen.
Interesting that the Eventing isn't 5* level to take into account less experienced nations but show jumping doesn't seem to do the same. The track looks as big as any top level ones I've seen.
Kat
Well-Known Member
This course isn't up to height according to John Kyle. :-(
I guess it is a balance between having a course tough enough to weed out enough before the second round but easy enough that there aren't accidents.
Poles falling and time faults is what we want. Stops and run outs not too bad but horses falling or landing in the jumps is really uncomfortable and shouldn't be happening this frequently.
Michen
Well-Known Member
The fallen horse looked pretty lame after too ?
Bellaboo18
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I was replying to pure showjumping isn't enjoyable to watch. This wont put me off watching sj the rest of the time.
I as everyone else hate watching the horse and rider combinations which clearly shouldn't be attempting this course. Questions hopefully will asked about qualification or the course etc.
humblepie
Well-Known Member
It looks a question a bit too big for some of the horses/combinations. On the whole I am not finding issues with the riding as such - it is mistakes due to the course or the time which is obviously very tight.
Bellaboo18
Well-Known Member
This isn't a true representation of pure sj, in my opinion.
Kat
Well-Known Member
I agree I think the 3 riders no drop score format puts so much pressure on that it would be very tough to retire.
I think the SJ format needs some work, there has to be a way of allowing nations to compete without horses falling all over the place. I'm not sure that multiple rounds of straightforward show jumping is particularly viewer friendly either. I wonder if having a speed class and something like a puissance or six bar as part of the team competition would appeal. Maybe they have each member of the team do a different class and then decide it based upon overall performance. It would be much more interesting for less horsey viewers.
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
Even the stops and runouts are worrying because they are unusual at this level and suggest a real breakdown in confidence. Taking a pole out with a toe is a long way from a horse finding itself in mid air unable to make a spread and paddling through several poles.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
He looked a bit better once he was being led away, but still sore. He didn't slide across the surface as he fell, he sort of crash landed on it with his hind legs underneath him ?.
Squeak
Well-Known Member
I only just started watching before the Israeli rider and have to admit it's not making nice watching so far.
Agree that the 3 riders with no drop score is possibly putting pressure on riders to complete where they wouldn't have previously. Was it a mexican in the xc who kept trying to complete even though their horse was too tired to even canter?
Agree that the 3 riders with no drop score is possibly putting pressure on riders to complete where they wouldn't have previously. Was it a mexican in the xc who kept trying to complete even though their horse was too tired to even canter?
humblepie
Well-Known Member
They used to have a speed element as the first round I am sure. I wonder if the 30 clears from the first competition made the course builder think he needed to up it? Be interesting to see whether the horses that did the teams jump better because they have their eye in or not so well because of those efforts.
Snow Falcon
Hoping for drier days
Some car crash jumping here, not pretty viewing
Kat
Well-Known Member
Brazilian, and he did withdraw, but probably should have withdrawn a couple of fences earlier. Again the pressure when there is no drop score and in his case he was in sight of home must make it very difficult to retire.
Bradsmum
Well-Known Member
That last Egyptian round wasn't hanging around and yet still got time penalty so perhaps it's a combination of no discount score, big/technical course and tight time that's just putting too much pressure on riders and horses and we are not getting an enjoyable event.
humblepie
Well-Known Member
That was another nice round for Egypt but the score wouldn't really reflect it. Horse has some jump
Kat
Well-Known Member
If that was in response to my comment, I agree that run outs and refusals at this level aren't good. Perhaps my wording was at fault, I meant that they aren't as worrying as horse falls and you might expect to see one or two on a tricky distance or approach and that wouldn't give you too much cause for concern about a course, but this is causing more than that.
I agree that the horses paddling in the air and landing on the jumps is very different to knocking a pole and it is worrying how many are demolishing the fences.
Two horse falls already is VERY worrying indeed, they were both pretty crashing ones too.
Course designers aim for a certain % clear rate to ensure that it is competitive but the faults should be a top rail tipped off, a foot in the water, or time faults in by far the majority of cases. Horses looking like they have lost their bottle or jacked it in isn't good viewing, and is a world away from a horse glancing off a tight angle for a run out.
Kadastorm
Well-Known Member
What was the reason for not having a drop score this time? Because of covid or something else? I hope they change it back because it really isnt working this time and its seen 2 horses fall where they probably would have been retired.
The Israeli guys fall was particularly horrid and the amount of horses refusing and poles crashing at this level isnt right. A huge triple bar coming into a treble!?
This and the modern pentathlon showjumping has just made me sad for horse welfare today.
The Israeli guys fall was particularly horrid and the amount of horses refusing and poles crashing at this level isnt right. A huge triple bar coming into a treble!?
This and the modern pentathlon showjumping has just made me sad for horse welfare today.
Kat
Well-Known Member
The reason was apparently to make it easier for smaller nations to be competitive and to make the equestrian events quicker to get through.
I agree that it isn't really working in eventing and showjumping due to the pressure to complete.
SpottyTB
Well-Known Member
Feel like this is a bit of a silly question but what are the coloured dots up in the top left hand corner?
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
Agree with all of that, I was really replying generally.
I also think that as a team qualifying event, you need to be getting teams through to the next round. At this rate they’re not going to even get the requisite numbers through, with teams now pulling out.