Mudfukkle
Well-Known Member
I would ask for a full blood count, including kidneys and liver. If he's older than 15 ask for a Cushing's test.
Too thin horse - blood test?
- Thread starter ycbm
- Start date
HollyWoozle
Well-Known Member
If it's any help one of ours gradually dropped off some weight over last year and still looked ok weight-wise (he was fat before) but seemed tucked up, quiet and a bit dull. To cut to the chase, bloods came back showing a vitamin B deficiency. He was up to date with worming but I had another worm count done and he had a medium count for redworm (only just enough to be in medium and not low), so I sorted that and he had a supplement from the vets to counteract the deficiency. He is now on a balancer and he is looking much more like himself.
V. different sort to yours as he's a 13.1 ish Welsh X but just thought this might be useful to share. You know your horse and I'd definitely be going down the same route as you, rather than upping the food more and more, since I don't see an issue with feeding just quality forage anyway if he has done well on it before.
V. different sort to yours as he's a 13.1 ish Welsh X but just thought this might be useful to share. You know your horse and I'd definitely be going down the same route as you, rather than upping the food more and more, since I don't see an issue with feeding just quality forage anyway if he has done well on it before.
Littlewills
Well-Known Member
Grass nuts are what I feed to my natives and good doers. They arent what you would feed for weight gain. The time spent ploughing through enormous buckets of grass nuts is time hes not eating forage. The only time Ive ever used grass nuts for weight gain was a cob recovering from ulcers, who needed weight on, but slowly. He had a water bucket sized bucket of grass nuts, linseed and pink mash twice a day along with ad lib hay and two smaller feeds.
For weight gain you need small calorie dense meals alongside ad lib hay. Theres options that have neither alfa a or linseed.
Interestingly theres a strong correlation between intolerance to alfalfa and PSSM. Type 2 can cause issues with weight, and hes the right type to potentially have it. Not something you can blood test for though, as type 2 doesnt show as raised CK levels very often unfortunatley
bouncing_ball
Well-Known Member
Grass nuts vary. They can be a reasonable calory and protein source and are higher energy than average hay. I don’t think the grass nuts are a problem.
Grass nuts 11 Digestible Energy (MJ/kg)
Spillers senior conditioning mix 12.2 Digestible Energy (MJ/kg)
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I don't think the grass nuts are an issue at all, they are a high quality food that gives good levels of energy and protein and my horses love them.
He eats 10-12 kg haylage as well so they aren't stopping him eating forage.
He eats 10-12 kg haylage as well so they aren't stopping him eating forage.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I've had a PSSM one before and I tested him for type 1 when I got him because of his breeding.
There's no sign (yet) of any muscle issues at all. His weight loss is definitely fat over the ribs, not muscle, his bum is great.
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Andalucian
Well-Known Member
Has he had any antibiotics this year? Weight loss due to poor gut flora and forna after antibiotics maybe?
PurBee
Well-Known Member
Havent read the whole thread but has hyperthyroid test been mentioned? Is that possible for him?
Hope you get to the bottom of the issue, youve added many more kg of food from the sounds of it so he should be normalising if food was the issue.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Good thought but no he's never needed any.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Is that a thing in horses, it's not something I've heard of?
I'm not sure he has actually has an issue, I think I'm just a bit paranoid because he's such a great horse.
PurBee
Well-Known Member
it is, but its rarer than the other pituitary disorders that affect horses.
weight loss is a key symptoms, drinking excessively...him being more sharp.
caused by either excess iodine exposure, so feeding loads of seaweed for example, or the pituitary growing larger causing an excess of thyroid signalling and thyroid hormones:
http://www.horsedvm.com/disease/equine-hyperthyroidism/
It may well be just the weather recently these past 8 weeks have been sharply cold, compared to a relatively mild autumn/early winter. My gelding and mare drop weight when its colder...because i measure everything they consume i up their food when we have a cold snap, as theyre unrugged and burn more energy keeping warm. If i keep at the same weight food when temps drop i can visually see after a mere few days them looking slimmer.
The difference between 5 degrees Celsius and -1 in what they metabolically burn is amazing considering its a mere 6 degree temp difference! They get an increase of about 3kg each just like youve given of extra grass pellets.
Roxylola
Well-Known Member
Can't help with the blood tests etc, and I may get hung drawn and quartered on here these days for this as its likely that nutritionally its probably shocking - full of sugar etc, but I fed blue chip pro to my blood horse years ago. Alfa used to bring him out in hives, he was sharp on no feed at all and ran up lean for fun. He was sharp but sane on the blue chip and maintained weight. I've not used it for years and as I say it may be out of the question but in my study of one it helped without sending him daft
Lady Jane
Well-Known Member
Apologies if this has been asked and you have answered - how old is he? Some horses just need more feed as they get older even if you do all the other good stuff mentioned previously
Boulty
Well-Known Member
Would suggest full bloods to include haematology to see if any signs that his immune system is fighting something, check for anaemia etc as well as liver function. You could also speak to Westgate about doing counts a certain amount of time after worming to check for resistance. Your vet may have other suggestions as I'm not sure what tests you'd need to check things like digestive function in a horse. If everything totally normal you could throw a curve ball in there & test for PPID but highly unlikely given age & lack of any signs other than weight loss so would wait for a free testing offer for that if I was you (but horse I had with it was tested as a "just in case" originally & there does seem to be the odd very young horse crop up with it)
scats
Well-Known Member
Definitely get liver function checked. I had a pony who we just couldn’t keep any weight on and it turned out she had a liver problem.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
He's 5, 6th birthday in May. I'm thinking this is it, having looked at him yesterday pretending I'd not seen him for a couple of months. He is really bulking out his fame and I missed it because I see him every day.
Thanks to MP, for the growth support suggestion!
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Inda
Well-Known Member
When my horse got ribby, unlike the rest on the yard. It turned out she had multi drug resistant worms. We only found out by checking her normal looking faeces after treatment. The Liverpool worming people ended up with a drug cocktail that I would never of dreamed of.
I thought it was impressive for a horse that had never actually left the yard as she was still on the stud farm she was born on.
if it helps I get annual full biochem and haematology at her scope just to keep an eye on any issues that might be brewing
I thought it was impressive for a horse that had never actually left the yard as she was still on the stud farm she was born on.
if it helps I get annual full biochem and haematology at her scope just to keep an eye on any issues that might be brewing
MummyEms
Well-Known Member
My fine thoroughbred (we show jump and do everything) was too thin. She's on a seriously decent amount of linseed, a high quality balancer (to ensure she is getting everything) thunderbrooks chaff (as she can be lively so am careful not to add alfalfa or molasses / starch etc) plus ad lib hay.
Bloods will give you a piece of mind even if they're all clear.
Perhaps try a week or two off work also xx
Bloods will give you a piece of mind even if they're all clear.
Perhaps try a week or two off work also xx
jhoward
Demon exorcist...
Gosh for some one that normally has an answer for everything and knows it all you really did just come across as very condescending.
I suspect this will be a post like many others people will offer you ideas (forums eh) and you will just shut them down.
LadyGascoyne
Well-Known Member
I thought that too, ycbm. If he looks good, feels good and is generally happy then I’d probably measure him.
Mim looked not as ‘well’ as she usually looks for this time of year recently (although definitely looks great and if she was this weight in summer, I’d be celebrating). She’s up a full inch and I hadn’t noticed ?
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
I would ask for the tape worm test as well as for white blood cell count and anemia.
My sisters tb had steady weight loss was diagnosed with ulcers which wouldn't go and then found out had a tape worm infection which was a shock as we worm correctly for tape worm. Once this was cleared up his ulcers went and the weight piled on. Hind gut ulcers could be another one.
Also just a check over his body, trot up, teeth etc just incase its low level pain and maybe a bute trial might be needed. I say teeth as even though he is eating it could be that he isn't chewing enough for it to digest.
How old is he now? Could he be going through another growth spurt as mine did this about age 5/6.
My spotty needs careful managing in the winter for his weight as he very easily drops off. Rug wise he has to be toasty all the time, warm just makes him angry and loose weight very quickly. Adlib hayledge and Dengie meadow grass and soaked grass nuts in feed.
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
I treat my spotty as Type two as he has had two tying up sessions in the 6/7 years we have owned him. His parents are type one neg as they are reg appy breeders.
At the time it was only the muscle biopsy test which the vet and I didnt want to do as the outcome would have been the same, diet and management change.
There is a tail hair test now but its £300+ and not peer reviewed so I am not doing it.
He does well on how he is managed, high vit e, kept warm, low S and S. I can't have him out all year round but it works what we do.
He also cannot tolerate Alfalfa in any form, he is like a child on E numbers and unride able.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I do worry about PSSM, he's of an age to start showing it soon if he's got it. Tested type 1 negative, and I feel the same way about the type 2 test so I'm not doing it, just keeping an eagle eye out for symptoms.
If the bloods show nothing and the extra food does nothing then I'll be buying some vitamin E.
If the bloods show nothing and the extra food does nothing then I'll be buying some vitamin E.
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
My old Irish vet always gave vit e to her show jumpers oct to may as she wanted to help them out as there isn't any in the grass and she swears more are low in Vit e than we think, kind of like Vit D trouble in us humans. most of the UK is low but doctors do not look for it very easily and do not give the right advice.
Its always stuck with me.
Good luck.
spotty_pony
...
Following with interest as my Appy has dropped weight this year despite being fed two feeds per day and ad-lib good quality hay. Up to date with worming, etc. Heart was checked in October when he had his yearly jab. Teeth being done in Feb by Vet so I will mention then to them. He is 22 this year though and I have a suspicion it could be cushings but will see what vet thinks. He had a cushing test last when he was about 17/18 and was clear but it's not a possibility now.
Chinchilla
...
What are the symptoms of a horse being low in vitamin e please?
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
Similar to pssm, vit e deficiency can cause muscle weakness, neurological problems including gait abnormalities and heart problems to
name a few.
It's basically needed for everything in a horses body but they can't make it themselves so have to rely on diet to obtain it.
Forage plus to a good explanation below.
https://forageplustalk.co.uk/vitamin-e-the-warrior-vitamin/
name a few.
It's basically needed for everything in a horses body but they can't make it themselves so have to rely on diet to obtain it.
Forage plus to a good explanation below.
https://forageplustalk.co.uk/vitamin-e-the-warrior-vitamin/
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
Well weight loss is one of them, tying up is another, shakes and trembling, lack of energy ... and more extreme ones.
Anything getting enough turnout on enough grass should be ok though.
It's something I always supplement in the winter because mine only get all weather turnout in the winter and no grass.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
all of mine (non PSSM) are supplemented with E all year round. Would never dream of not doing so.
Shysmum
Well-Known Member
My tuppence worth.... 5/6 year old having a growth spurt ? Good luck with everything x