Tricky ownership situation, any advice???

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Claire.81

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Hi all,
Just looking for a bit of advice as I’ve found myself in a bit of a situation and I really don’t know what to do.
I’ve been looking for a horse to loan for a while now, and a few weeks ago I answered an advert for a 17 year old Tb gelding who’s owner wanted a long term/permanent loan home for him.
She’s owned him for over 8 years and due to her personal circumstances she had found herself in a position whereby she could no longer keep him.
Long story short, he was perfect for what I was looking for (mainly hacking around the village and some low level dressage and/or showing) so I agreed to take him on full, long term loan.
I agreed to pay his owner the cost of transporting him down to our yard, and he arrived last weekend. So far no problem.
However this is where it gets a bit complicated...
On handing me the horses passport the owner also gave me a handwritten note which was a receipt for the purchase of the horse.
There had been no talk of me actually buying the horse during any of our conversations, so it did come as quite a shock to me when I realised that instead of just loaning him as I thought, I’d actually bought him!
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining about actually buying him, he was intended to be with me permanently anyway, so in that respect it makes no difference. It was just a shock initially lol.
However his owner has recently contacted me and told me that she’s missing him and could she come down and collect him and I honestly don’t know what to do.
On the one hand, I feel for her, she had him for a long time and obviously she’s going to miss him, and that is telling me to say yes, come down and get him.
But the other hand (and my partner and yard owner) is telling me that she was looking for a new home for him for a reason, she told me her circumstances just last week and things can’t have changed that quickly. Plus given the fact that she was the one who chose to sell him to me rather than just loan him....
I don’t want to seem heartless and just say no she can’t have him back, but I also don’t want to give the horse back if hes going to be advertised again in a few weeks if this lady finds things getting difficult again.
It’s not a situation I’ve come across in the thirty years I’ve had horses so I really don’t know what to do for the best, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Sorry for the very long post, I tried to keep it as brief as I could lol
 
I would be suspicious that she has had someone else say that they would have given her more for the horse. As you have a receipt for him, you are quite within your rights to say no, if you want to keep him. If you are a BHS member, give them a ring and ask for the legal helpline's take on this.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I would be suspicious that she has had someone else say that they would have given her more for the horse. As you have a receipt for him, you are quite within your rights to say no, if you want to keep him. If you are a BHS member, give them a ring and ask for the legal helpline's take on this.
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That’s what my other half said. He’s under the impression she just wanted someone to take him as one of the things she told me was that she’s lost her grazing.
The letter she wrote clearly states she’s sold him to me. It’s just got me really worried and concerned what would happen to him if I did let her have him back :(
 
Not a lot. I agreed to give her £300 for the cost to transport him down to me. So in essence I paid £300 for the horse, all his tack and transport costs.
 
TBH, if you are not yet besotted with the horse, I would ask for a refund of everything you have spent so far (including transport, tack, feed, bedding, insurance etc) and let her pick him up. That might clarify things for her.


If it got into unpleasantness it would be a shadow on the pleasure you would gave with him.


If I were besotted with him, and you have accepted ownership in a conversation when she handed over the passport and receipt. then I would explain that when she gave the receipt and ownership to you, that you did indeed take ownership and he is now a family member.
 
Claire.81 said:
That’s what my other half said. He’s under the impression she just wanted someone to take him as one of the things she told me was that she’s lost her grazing.
The letter she wrote clearly states she’s sold him to me. It’s just got me really worried and concerned what would happen to him if I did let her have him back :(
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Forget the previous owner for a minute or two. Do you like the horse? If nothing untoward had happened within the process, would you be considering selling him on? If a complete stranger asked to buy him from you at this point would you sell?

If I were you, I would tell her that you will be seeking legal advice asap next week, in view of the fact that you have a receipt from her and see what her response is. Unless you don't want him, stick to your guns and keep him, he is yours now, as far as I can see.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Forget the previous owner for a minute or two. Do you like the horse? If nothing untoward had happened within the process, would you be considering selling him on? If a complete stranger asked to buy him from you at this point would you sell?

If I were you, I would tell her that you will be seeking legal advice asap next week, in view of the fact that you have a receipt from her and see what her response is. Unless you don't want him, stick to your guns and keep him, he is yours now, as far as I can see.
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I do like him very much :)
I’ve been looking for a horse for months now, and he’s the first I’ve actually seen that fits the bill. He’s really lovely, has settled in well here and no, I absolutely wouldn’t sell him. If I’d have bought him in the conventional manner I’d have absolutely no issue in saying he’s here for the rest of his life.
 
Claire.81 said:
I do like him very much :)
I’ve been looking for a horse for months now, and he’s the first I’ve actually seen that fits the bill. He’s really lovely, has settled in well here and no, I absolutely wouldn’t sell him. If I’d have bought him in the conventional manner I’d have absolutely no issue in saying he’s here for the rest of his life.
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Right! Tell her no, then! But I would tell her that you are taking legal advice. I bet she will back off then.

Enjoy YOUR horse!
 
Has she acknowledged in communication with your OH that she "sold" him to you? I can't work out if she has forgotten that bit and wants to take him back off loan, or is she acknowledging she has sold him but now saying she made a mistake? If it's the latter, a flat no is easier. If It's the former, she sounds like a fruitcake and I would be treading carefully - you might find she doesn't let it drop or even just turns up.
 
If you want to keep the horse and the receipt is a sale receipt for the horse and not simply delivery of horse and tack, then ask her nicely to do one and be thankful you are a way away, past owners with guilt can be quite difficult but she should be pleased he's found a good home for a 17yo just before winter. As you said, her circumstances can't have changed-she's having a wobble. But make sure that receipt is unambiguous.
 
Claire.81 said:
I do like him very much :)
I’ve been looking for a horse for months now, and he’s the first I’ve actually seen that fits the bill. He’s really lovely, has settled in well here and no, I absolutely wouldn’t sell him. If I’d have bought him in the conventional manner I’d have absolutely no issue in saying he’s here for the rest of his life.
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The letter she wrote clearly states she’s sold him to me.
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Tell her nicely to go away and stop bothering you.
 
But make sure that receipt is unambiguous.

“I can no longer keep X and he is sold to you at £300 to include transport costs to bring him to Yarmouth”
That’s a direct quote from the note she gave me.
 
Theocat said:
Has she acknowledged in communication with your OH that she "sold" him to you? I can't work out if she has forgotten that bit and wants to take him back off loan, or is she acknowledging she has sold him but now saying she made a mistake? If it's the latter, a flat no is easier. If It's the former, she sounds like a fruitcake and I would be treading carefully - you might find she doesn't let it drop or even just turns up.
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I had exactly the same worries a) that she’s just going to turn up and take the horse back and b) that she might be a bit of a nut job.
She hasn’t really acknowledged anything to my OH, just that she’s heartbroken and missing him and wants to come and collect him :(
As I said I’m not heartless, I completely understand that she’s missing him, it’s only natural after having a horse for so long.
My YO lives on site so I’m not really too worried about her just turning up and taking the horse as my YO was there when the horse was delivered and heard the entire conversation so she knows he was sold not loaned. She’s a very practical woman who has basically told me to ignore this woman.
I just worry that if she does turn up things could get messy and I don’t want to bring any hassle to the yard:(
 
holeymoley said:
So with that quote she doesn’t really have a leg to stand on.
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I’ve also (luckily) saved every text and email she’s sent me stating that she isn’t in a position to take him back due to her circumstances and that he’s mine.
Maybe I’m just worrying too much, but as this wasn’t the usual way of buying I just don’t know where I stand.
 
Claire.81 said:
But make sure that receipt is unambiguous.

“I can no longer keep X and he is sold to you at £300 to include transport costs to bring him to Yarmouth”
That’s a direct quote from the note she gave me.
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sounds unambiguous to me. If she persists then I would tell her that the horse is legally yours and she should contact you through a solicitor only from now on and then do not answer any messages.
 
I cannot see any issue here. You have paid money to the person for the horse. You have a receipt for the payment & a bill of sale. You now own the horse. The fact that the previous owner has changed their mind has nothing to do with the transaction. If she wishes to pursue the matter it will cost her to engage a solicitor & once the solicitor is in receipt of the circumstances he will tell her not to waste her time & money pursuing an issue she has no chance of winning. Don't lose any sleep over it, enjoy your horse. Don't waste your money engaging a solicitor, only do this if the previous owner has one contact you, but I doubt if she will.
 
sounds like a scam. she gets £300 for the horse and reclaims it a week later. does the same thing multiple times in a year. nice little earner. get a letter from a solicitor if need be. if you have a receipt saying the horse is yours then it is yours. just a thought, was it hers to sell in the first place? have it scanned ( microchip) it might be registered at wetherbys and if so they will have owner details. have pm'd you
 
Thanks everyone for your replies, you really have put my mind at ease. I have had a nightmare of a week what with all the worrying about this. My OH has told me I should just relax and enjoy lofty (the nickname the girls at the yard have given him lol) but being a natural worrier it’s been playing on my mind something terrible.

Lofty really has settled in well at our yard, he had the vet out on Tuesday to give him a full health check (I would have had him vetted if I’d actually known I was buying him!) and he’s in great health, fit and ready to go. At least he will be once he’s had some new shoes. Not bad for a 17 year old bless him.

I’ve actually spent a good amount of time this week looking into both lofty and his old owner as I was a little bit worried I could have a stolen horse or something along those lines, but thankfully that isn’t the case.
He’s RoR registered and BD affiliated which has helped my investigations a great deal (I felt a bit like Sherlock Holmes :D) and I’ve spoken to his vet up north who had seen him just prior to my taking him on. It is all above board, just a very odd way of doing things in my opinion.
I will get his passport sent off to Weatherbys to get my name put on there, as well as changing ownership with RoR etc and start enjoying him :)
 
Poor you I can understand your worry but it sounds like you just need to enjoy your new horse and forget about his previous owner, it sounds like his very happy where he is and I wish you all the best with him:)

I think we definitely need some pictures of him now!
 
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