Trot Diagonals

[scats]

I think maybe you're out of date? You learned in the days when the UK didn't have a hope in hell of winning an Olympic title, I guess.

I think you've also missed the word 'not' and changed the while sense of what you are saying. But if we follow that argument, you are saying that no horse should be trotting a ten metre circle until it is capable of carrying the rider in assuring grit. Which to me, is plainly ridiculous.

This. Tnavas, I am not denying your classical background and this is quite obviously the way you have been taught (as perhaps the instructor that I had in the 80s), but things have moved on and surely the mark of a good horseman is one who can adapt and change to suit the animal they are riding to achieve the best results, not one who is so rigid in their thinking that they must ride everything the same because that's what you do. This change is why we are now a force to be reckoned with in dressage, rather than a nation who could never quite make it.

As Cortez has said, there are numerous uses for riding on the 'wrong' diagonal also, and I solved a canter transition issue with current mare via this exact method.

Dressage has moved on, you don't have to sit for 10 m circles anymore, and rising is allowed in lower level tests, because it has been recognzied that some horses working at that level may still not be strong enough to do the whole test with the rider sitting. Dressage has become more accessible, which can only be a good thing, surely.

I am not knocking classical methods and indeed I have trained with some well known classical riders, but I won't name drop as that's not my thing. But being completely aghast that people now rise while riding a ten meter circle was quite amusing to me.
It's a bit like being shocked that people no longer wear chin cups on their hats.

 

[blitznbobs]

If you are needing to rise in more collected movements then the horse is not yet ready to be working them, it is not supple enough or strong enough in the back - go back a step and develop the strength first.

I am a very classical dressage person who spends time getting the horse to the different levels - too many horses these days are asked to work too advanced before they are physically strong enough. The horse MUST be supple laterally from circles and longitudinal from transitions before it is asked to perform more advanced work.

Mmmm Charlotte and Carl must be wrong then...

 

[tristar]

i agree with tnavas on this one, the fact that you feel the `need` to rise on 10 m circles could be an indication of lack of strength, although i do it sometimes to get the weight off the horses back and allow it to discover that it can come through more sometimes.

sitting trot does not need to be done to death, just jogging slowly, balanced and concentrating on relaxation has a marvelous effect on my horses, especially when done on a circle and then into medium trot, it has a gentle collecting effect, but of course this would not be enough for `greedy` competition riders.

i also find that shoulder in in rising trot seems to diminish the quality and purpose of the softening
and collecting effect of the movement.

 

[teapot]

I don't think there are (or should be) any hard and fast rules on this: sometimes you need to sit, sometimes it is more helpful to rise, and soemtimes it is an advantage to ride on the "wrong" diagonal (when training horses which struggle with canter leads, for instance). Sometimes it is helpful to even rise in the more collected movements such as shoulder-in or half pass, it all depends on what the horse needs at that moment in time. Focusing on small details can sometimes obscure bigger, more important difficulties. It is easy to comment on a rider's diagonals, less easy to correct poor position or feel, perhaps?

Don't forget staying rising to change diagonal too. Some horses respond better to it.

 

[ester]

i agree with tnavas on this one, the fact that you feel the `need` to rise on 10 m circles could be an indication of lack of strength, although i do it sometimes to get the weight off the horses back and allow it to discover that it can come through more sometimes.

sitting trot does not need to be done to death, just jogging slowly, balanced and concentrating on relaxation has a marvelous effect on my horses, especially when done on a circle and then into medium trot, it has a gentle collecting effect, but of course this would not be enough for `greedy` competition riders.

i also find that shoulder in in rising trot seems to diminish the quality and purpose of the softening
and collecting effect of the movement.

I don't think anyone here has said that they 'need' to rise on a 10m circle just that rising and sitting has different advantages, dependent somewhat on the horse you are sat on and to have a blanket ban would just be a bit daft, as at the end of the day you do what works for you and the horse.

 

[tristar]

i was merely saying it could be an indication of the horse not being ready or strong enough.

no one with any sense would be rigid about this

comments on threads like this make you you seriously wonder about the actual experience of people commenting.