Turning out a clipped horse with no rug to lose weight ?

3Beasties said:
Mpop - How refreshing to hear of an obese horse owner that is working hard and taking vets advise to reduce the weight of your horse. I have seen some really obese horses lately with owners that are not doing anything to change it. I wish they could understand the health problems they are opening their horses up to :(
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That's a really lovely comment and one I don't hear very often. My friends are very kind and tell me that he is not that fat, but I know that he is. I would never forgive myself if my vets warnings turned into reality because I did not take action when I was warned to. Unless you have owned a good doer like my horse, I think that it can be impossible to understand how hard he can be to manage.
 
This thread was never intended to be a 'pick on someone' from another forum.

Yes the details were taken from that thread, but it was merely to ask others opinions on clipping and turning out in a rainsheet and/or no rug for weightloss that was all.

I haven't offered an opinion and said 'Oh my gosh - SO cruel - WHO would do that ?! or anything else it was merely to ask other opinions. We can all see the horse is clearly well looked after by it's owner.

My apologies MPop if you thought for any moment if you thought this was aimed directly at the care of your horse, it wasn't.
 
It wasn't aimed at anyone, was it? It was all written very generally, I thought. It was only the later poster that had told everyone it was on another forum and, I expect, told MPop.. If the comments by the OP had been negative or there had been pictures of someone else's horse I would think differently.
 
If it was general the op wouldn't have added in snippets about them, such as on vets advice, been muzzled. The only thing they altered was the gender to she.

I didn't inform the owner I don't know them, but the fact they felt the need to join proves its not just a general let's start a discussion about rugging.
 
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You would assume that as the horse has a full clip it is being exercised a lot to warrant the clip therefore you would think weight wouldn't really be an issue. If it is not being exercised to the extent of needing a full clip then why do it?
 
The OP did say her post was based on MPop but not meant to be picky. I think it spurred a good general discussion, one people can learn things from perhaps. I don't know what spurred MPop to join, and they were worried they were going to get ripped to bits initially, but they seemed fine last night, and gave more details that expanded the picture. I think that the "snippets" were just extra information replying to things that other posters had said. I thought they were all pretty neutral and it wasn't obvious what OP's opinion was. They didn't seem opinionated or nasty to me.
 
Crugeran Celt said:
You would assume that as the horse has a full clip it is being exercised a lot to warrant the clip therefore you would think weight wouldn't really be an issue. If it is not being exercised to the extent of needing a full clip then why do it?
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To help it lose weight without starving it.
 
cptrayes said:
To help it lose weight without starving it.
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You don't need to starve it. Simply don't clip it. Turn it out 24/7 in a field with good shelter and feed it hay as appropriate.

Turning a fully clipped horse out without any protection is an awful thing to do, and quite frankly down right cruel. Any vet that recommended that would be no vet of mine.
 
cptrayes said:
To help it lose weight without starving it.
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I don't really understand why they would give it a full clip as if they just turned it out unclipped but naked it would lose weight anyway and then it would not be a cold miserable horse. Mine live out all winter unrugged, not clipped and ad lib hay but they still lose their summer 'grass' bellies.
 
I think its great that the OP was so inspired by a thread they located elsewhere, that they felt the need to join here.
You could still be viewed as a troll with only 4 posts all on this thread.
 
Isn't this about metabolizing fat in response to a lower skin temperature? How would that work on a horse with a full coat? Nobody has said the horse will be turned out without protection especially in bad weather, so yes I would do it on the advice of a vet rather than set the horse up for all the sorts of problems it will have later in life if left obese. This horse could be borderline/insulin resistant (especially as he's hanging on to the fat pads) and sometimes drastic measures need to be taken to address this. Owner of the horse seems to have it in hand with the collaboration of the vet - better dealing with it now than flinging meds at it later in life.
 
As someone who owned a horse that was clipped out and turned out with no rug - not by me! - I think it is unkind.

If you need the horse to loose weight, turn it out unclipped and unrugged and limit the amount of hay. Up until Christmas they don't loose much weight as there is still plenty of grass, but if the temperature drops the grass will stop growing, and they will loose weight between Christmas and before the grass starts growing again.

This is obviously a desperate measure if the horse is very overweight.
 
Well I Never said:
I think its great that the OP was so inspired by a thread they located elsewhere, that they felt the need to join here.
You could still be viewed as a troll with only 4 posts all on this thread.
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I could be but I hope I'm not. I've attempted to remain neutral in all my post.

If your first sentance is meant sarcastically then despite me trying to be neutral, you seem keen to start an argument ... !
 
I have to say, my own opinion is you are only considering options that suit you, ie clipping out and no rug unless wet/cold

To reduce the weight of a horse, reduce it calories, ie his grazing, yet you do not want to do this for 2 reasons

1. he will miss his friends in a 'fatty' paddock... no room to move... answer: make it large enough and don't you think he will miss his friends for a lot longer being on box rest for lami?

2. You dont want to leave this yard, and 'you have to make the most of what you have and adapt' answer: if you care for your horse and cant reduce his grazing to an acceptable level at your current yard, you need to move him

Obviously the easy answer for you is freeze the fat off because it suits you and you don't have to move yards or reduce his grazing like 90% of experienced owners of good doers, yes... really... some other people are experienced in dealing with good doers too..

Too me you do not sound experienced enough to challenge your terrible vets advice, which we all have had to do over the years, they can be wrong as other people have said and you have to know when to follow advice and when to ask for a second opinion
 
Feeding lower calories than the horse needs is starving it, however slowly.

This thread is positively drowning in anthropomorphism!
 
Palindrome said:
No, starving is not satisfying his hunger, you can feed enough volume so he is not hungry but reduce the calories (by feeding oat straw or/and soaked hay).
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The owner has already said she can't do this. I am baffled by the people who would rather see the horse in a muzzle than without a rug on a dry night.
 
If he's cold he will use up the excess fat to become warm which is the point or am I missing something here? He will have a rain sheet to protect him from wet and that'll take off the wind-chill. As far as I'm reading it, the horse is more at risk from worse problems in future if this isn't addressed now?
 
Well my vet has advised the same for our pony as she isn't losing weight ... clip her leave out and no rugs, though did suggest rubbing some oil/Vaseline across her back to protect the sin from rain...
 
Crugeran Celt said:
You would assume that as the horse has a full clip it is being exercised a lot to warrant the clip therefore you would think weight wouldn't really be an issue. If it is not being exercised to the extent of needing a full clip then why do it?
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Quite right. Ridiculous to clip an overweight horse unless its in hard work or sweats up easily. I cannot believe a horse in hard work can be obese. Better to have left the coat on & follow a feeding regime suitable for a laminitic.
 
I can't believe how busy this forum is! I don't log on for a day or so and come back to loads of replies - it's great!

To address some of the questions:

He is in 'full' work to the extent to which I can manage it. He is ridden every single day and we do a variety of activities - although all at a pretty low level! We jump, do dressage, attempt some low level cross country, hack over our fields, go to shows most weekends. He has a very thick coat and was getting so hot after being worked that I had to clip him.

Yes, I could move yards. I could move him away from what I consider to be our perfect yard where he is happy and settled and where I have fantastic support in the form of my yard manager and riding instructor who both live onsite. The disadvantage of the yard is also the main advantage - the fantastic turnout. I do not live in an area where grazing is cheap or freely available and if I moved yards I would have to stable him at night which is something I don't want to do. I cannot section off a bit of the main field and I don't want him separated from the herd unless it is an absolute necessity.

No I am not an experienced vet, but I neither do I take advice without fully considering it first. My horse is fully monitored - not just by myself but by all the fantastic people who support me with him. My yard manager, my riding instructor, other liveries and my vet. None of us would allow any horse on our yard to suffer. Since he was reclipped last week and the weather has turned cold, he has worn a rug every night. He will only go naked on a warm, dry night.

Yes, the topic of this thread was stolen from elsewhere but as the person who has done it has not identified myself or gone into too many details I don't really mind. I have to say that originally I did find it odd that someone deliberately created a new account to start a thread on this topic as it made me think that this person does not want to be identified. I have no idea why they did this, but I don't really care either!

I originally posted about my situation because I was very upset that after all my hard work over the year my vet still considered him to be a condition score of 4. I thought that he was more of a 3, but my vet explained his reasons and I do agree. When the vet listed all the potential things that could go wrong with him in his later years if we did not shift the last bit of weight I felt like the most useless owner in the world. Sometimes we all need to vent and the internet is the best place for this, but as I said before, I will follow the advice of the people around me - my vet, my yard manager and my riding instructor. Forums are a great place to chat about horses and discussion ideas, but any advice I get via a forum will never replace the 'real life' advice I get from people who actually know my horse.
 
Mpop I answered the question posed in the title not a specific horse and I stand by my comments as an answer to that question I personally would never turn a fully newly clipped out horse as an attempt to lose weight and as you have seemingly found it doesn't work he has put on a bit if your answer is as I have interpreted, He needs to be kept warm not hot and encouraged to move more. I would be a bit worried unless your grass is long if he was muzzled at this time of year as not enough fibre will be going through his gut. So he needs a track system or more work. Muzzles only work if they are worn continuously while out only removed once in a stable as the horse can eat four times his needs in an hour if he is hungry. He needs managing not freezing. However as you are there all the time day and night to make sure he doesn't get wet and cold I am sure you will succeed in getting him to lose weight. Being low on food volume will only make him greedier and so will make his metabolism slow down and get fatter. Just like human diets they only work if you are happy to make them a lifestyle
I have four fat natives two highland ponies that graze all year as much as they want who spend far more time playing and snoozing I rarely see them eat they get fat in summer and skinny over winter and are not greedy
The other two one had a bout of laminitis and had to be on box rest and restricted grazing for a while he is greedy to the point every blade to the root is eaten in case he has to be hungry again the Connie is a lovely mare but her new owner wanted her to lose weight so she joined the little fellow on restricted grazing and now from a really fussy feeder she too eats everything to the roots for fear of not getting her tummy full So in a small experiment I have found that year round grazing of short grass has kept them fatter in summer and skinny at the end of winter and as a result have never had any metabolic issues on 50 years. Please try to organise you management and keep him protected from severe cold and wet
 
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