Uncontrolled dogs (again)

[4x4]

The BREED is a working sheepdog. It is a pet OK? I informed the police for 2 reasons
1) The unpleasant gobbiness of the owner could be construed as aggressive behaviour
2) If we shoot it for sheep worrying at a later date I have a crime ref: no. to prove it's not the first time the dog was out of control on someone else's land.

As for not riding out if you're scared of dogs, what am I supposed to do, trek round and round my turnout paddock. Come one you lot, dogs should be controlled in the countryside. You wouldn't take a dog into the centre of and let it run about now would you? Or perhaps you would!

 

[ticker]

The BREED is a working sheepdog. It is a pet OK? I informed the police for 2 reasons
1) The unpleasant gobbiness of the owner could be construed as aggressive behaviour
2) If we shoot it for sheep worrying at a later date I have a crime ref: no. to prove it's not the first time the dog was out of control on someone else's land.

As for not riding out if you're scared of dogs, what am I supposed to do, trek round and round my turnout paddock. Come one you lot, dogs should be controlled in the countryside. You wouldn't take a dog into the centre of and let it run about now would you? Or perhaps you would!

I agree dogs should be under control, not an ideal situation but I wouldn't make a drama out of it.

 

[AmyMay]

As for not riding out if you're scared of dogs, what am I supposed to do, trek round and round my turnout paddock.

If it comes to it - yes. I think people completely and utterly over react when it comes to dogs.

I've never given any of my horses a days training where dogs are concerned - they simply get on with it. I have only ever had one bad experience with a dog - a little yorkshire terrier. It ended badly for the terrier unfortunately. But hey ho - such is life.

I come across dogs all the time. Leashed and unleashed. Say something to the owner - and the dog rarely acts. Sit there like a rabbit in headlights, and you can bet the dog will get agitated.

 

[ester]

you don't have to wait for a second time for it to be out of control/sheep worrying to shoot it anyway though surely . and we'd be keeping them pretty busy if we all reported a bit of gobbiness.

I also know plenty of pet working sheepdogs who are very well adapted.

 

[madlady]

I think that all dogs who are not safe around horses should be on leads on public bridleways. I don't have any issues at all with the dogs who are properly trained and don't cause problems but I do wish that dog owners would realise that if their dog isn't safe then in an argument with a horse the dog is going to come of worse!

On Sunday I was on a public bridleway taking my young stallion out - he is as sensible around dogs as I can get him - he has seen them and is used to barking etc.

All of a sudden a small dog appeared around the corner, no owner in sight, small dog proceeds to dive directly for Daegan's back legs biting and snapping, I carried on walking him, dog carried on harrassing us - Daegs then loses patience with small dog and starts spinning to strike at it (natural stallion reaction) at which point owner appears shouting and screaming. I told him that if he insists on walking his dog on a public bridleway off the lead and it's not safe around horses then expect the dog to one day end up dead.

I saw the same owner again later on the ride - small dog was at that point on a lead and owner stopped to apologise. We then had quite a nice friendly chat where I explained just what a lot of horses natural reaction would be to something snapping at their heels.

 

[burtie]

Good lord, all dogs on lead at all times in public places, what a load of nonsense! I ride out in New Forest with my dog loose (shock horror), we ride through various forms of livestock and wild deer, we meets loads of other dogs, they play, jump in puddles, jump out of hedges. Sometimes they run under my horses legs, he has been trained to largely ignore this and you have no business going out on the New Forest if you horse isn't at least used to dogs around. I'm not sure what OP problem is here, seems to be more that they felt the dog should not be on private land than was out of control as regards to her horse.

 

[JFTDWS]

The BREED is a working sheepdog

Um, no. The breed is, presumably border collie. A working sheepdog is just that - a dog which works sheep.

The thing is, 4x4, your OP didn't mention that the dog had deviated from the track, or that you were concerned about it worrying sheep. Both valid concerns, of course, dogs should be under control and not on private land with no permission.

What you said was that it whooshed past your horse, startling you, and you suggest this is unacceptable. It isn't. It's life. It's part of hacking. And I agree with YorksG and amymay that dogs are just something you need to deal with if you want to hack.

I also disagree with your assertion that collies can't make decent pets - with appropriate exercise, stimulation and training, they can. But naturally I am biased on that score as my beautifully mannered, fit young collie is curled up next to me.

 

[ester]

I think it might have been different if the dog was snapping/trying to round you up but it only barked? which doesn't necessarily mean it isn't good around horses..

 

[yaffsimone1]

If it comes to it - yes. I think people completely and utterly over react when it comes to dogs.

I've never given any of my horses a days training where dogs are concerned - they simply get on with it. I have only ever had one bad experience with a dog - a little yorkshire terrier. It ended badly for the terrier unfortunately. But hey ho - such is life.

I come across dogs all the time. Leashed and unleashed. Say something to the owner - and the dog rarely acts. Sit there like a rabbit in headlights, and you can bet the dog will get agitated.

Agree with this. I have had numerous arguments with dog owners that didn't get me anywhere. Now when I see a loose dog, I politely call out to the owner but I certainly don't stop, I just keep going. If the dog wants to come round my horses legs then so be it (dog will come worse off if it does try anything). The majority of the time the dog sniffs horses legs, she isn't bothered in the slightest. But if I was to stop and faff about, horse would get agitated, dog would get agitated and then the fights start.

 

[Mithras]

If it comes to it - yes. I think people completely and utterly over react when it comes to dogs.

Wait til you get bitten (hopefully not!) yourself, and spend the next few hours in A&E getting stitches and anti-tetanus, and then the next two weeks on antibiotics which pretty much knock you out. And then have to deal with the moral dilemma of whether or not you should report it to the police and probably cause the dog to be pts.

I'm glad it was me bitten while I was out running, scouting new hacking routes, because that dog would have bitten through a tendon or ligament if it had been a horse's leg. And I realise now I've also come close to being bitten twice before while out running by dogs off the lead, because I felt the teeth on my leg. The doctor in A&E said he had been bitten twice and sees quite a lot of people who have.

I was previously in a false sense of security, thinking dogs don't generally bite. They do!

 

[AmyMay]

I was previously in a false sense of security, thinking dogs don't generally bite. They do!

Indeed they do

However, this general hysteria is very misplaced.

 

[Nikki J]

My sympathies are with the OP. It is all fine and dandy for very confident, probably highly skilled riders, who rarely if ever experience a moment of fear. For the rest of us lesser mortals who have not been riding since they were knee high to a grasshopper, or who are nervous riders for whatever reason, it can be extremely frightening when our horse is prancing around, maybe rearing, bucking or generally freaking because they are scared of dogs. Horses are prey animals, herbivores, and their natural reaction when faced with a dog running around, maybe barking, maybe not, maybe snapping at their heels, maybe not, can be to flee if they are unused to dogs, or just plain scared of them. To me there is little scarier than being on a bolting horse down a steep hill - it has happened to me, and I was terrified but managed to keep my nerve and pull him up. It was not a dog that had scared him, but sheep (he was an ex police horse from the Metropolitan Police in London, and was terrified of sheep, pigs, cattle, tractors, combine harvesters etc. etc. but bomb proof with guns, dogs, traffic, motorbikes, helicopters, aeroplanes, lorries etc.).

As an inveterate dog lover over and above even horses, I will say that the onus is on the dog owners to keep their dogs under control around horses. Sometimes of course you are taken unawares, but if your dog is off lead, it is your duty to be able to recall him quickly and get him on the lead. If you cannot, then your dog should not be off lead. In the event of an accident, where a dog had spooked a horse, horse had bolted and rider was hurt or killed, the owners of the dog would be found guilty if there was an ensuing court case, apart from the fact that they would have to live with the knowledge that their dog had caused the serious injury or death of another human being.

Horses are flight animals and it is our duty as dog owners to keep our dogs under control around them. We have to keep dogs under control round livestock, and we should with horses too.

To say that if your horse is scared of dogs you shouldn't ride out, it just plain ridiculous.

 

[Nikki J]

Wait til you get bitten (hopefully not!) yourself, and spend the next few hours in A&E getting stitches and anti-tetanus, and then the next two weeks on antibiotics which pretty much knock you out. And then have to deal with the moral dilemma of whether or not you should report it to the police and probably cause the dog to be pts.

I'm glad it was me bitten while I was out running, scouting new hacking routes, because that dog would have bitten through a tendon or ligament if it had been a horse's leg. And I realise now I've also come close to being bitten twice before while out running by dogs off the lead, because I felt the teeth on my leg. The doctor in A&E said he had been bitten twice and sees quite a lot of people who have.

I was previously in a false sense of security, thinking dogs don't generally bite. They do!

Whereas I sympathise very much with your unfortunate experience, dogs actually generally DON'T bite - it is those dogs who are spoiled, pampered, untrained or are allowed to run amok that can be dangerous. Thankfully, there are far more NICE dogs than there are NASTY dogs - or rather nasty owners. Don't blame the dogs, blame their owners.

Hope you didn't suffer permanent injury from the bites, sounds very nasty.

 

[RunToEarth]

Wait til you get bitten (hopefully not!) yourself, and spend the next few hours in A&E getting stitches and anti-tetanus, and then the next two weeks on antibiotics which pretty much knock you out. And then have to deal with the moral dilemma of whether or not you should report it to the police and probably cause the dog to be pts.

I'm glad it was me bitten while I was out running, scouting new hacking routes, because that dog would have bitten through a tendon or ligament if it had been a horse's leg. And I realise now I've also come close to being bitten twice before while out running by dogs off the lead, because I felt the teeth on my leg. The doctor in A&E said he had been bitten twice and sees quite a lot of people who have.

I was previously in a false sense of security, thinking dogs don't generally bite. They do!

But that is a similar scenario to the riding out on road argument - if you ride out on the road, you could get driven into and injured/killed because it would be naïve to think that there are only good drivers on the roads, there are also a lot of idiots driving. The only way to 100% avoid being driven into is to hack around your turnout paddock or whatever you have private access to.

I don't really see the issue in this case - bad form on the owner for not controlling their dog, slightly odd reaction when mounted to squeak at something, but there you go, it takes all sorts.

 

[wench]

So all dogs should be allowed to run off the lead when they are in public.

If you are on a footpath/bridleway they are trespassing if they deter from the path, however most people seem to think that it's acceptable to let their dogs run all over the field.

I want to take my dog out for a walk down the footpath, but I cannot, as chances are some out of control dog will coming running over to mine. Owner thinks all dogs want to play.

My last dog would have savaged the dog that came over to play. My current dog would probably wet himself and then blindly run, terrified.

If other dog was on a lead, neither of the above occurances would happen.

I'm a member of a facebook group where people repeatly moan about other dog owners "attacking" their precious pooch when its been running around off the lead interfering with other dogs on leads.

 

[EllenJay]

it can be extremely frightening when our horse is prancing around, maybe rearing, bucking or generally freaking because they are scared of dogs.

The op didn't mention anywhere that the horse reacted at all - let alone prancing, rearing, bucking etc. And to be honest any horse that reacts this way to everyday scarey things (i.e. a dog) really shouldn't be out and about - what if it was a pheasant that flapped, or a cat running through the undergrowth?

Love to know what the OP would do if she came across a pack of hounds on morning exercise - as used to regularly happen where I used to keep my horse on early morning hacks

 

[MadisonBelle]

When I ride my horse the dogs come with me, off lead. I ride dead early or late as my dogs would never dream of biting or even approaching another horse BUT I am more than aware that some riders/horses do not like them.

However the other week I did have one lady shouting the odds at me to have my dog under control!.... Well I was quite speechless as the dog was sat 2 feet away..... just sat.....was literally doing nothing except catching his breath as we'd just had a canter with him alongside! Thankfully my friend had her voice and yes there are some seriously out of control dogs around horses but seriously some people need to get over their own fear as it's usually THEM that make the horses act up not the dog who is literally doing nothing and is just "there"................

 

[MadisonBelle]

Oh yes and where we hack there are also LOTS of foxes! About the same size as my dog so what do these riders do when a fox runs out as they do very very often..............

 

[ester]

The dog was being recalled...
It did not snap or bite or run around.
The horse did not buck/rear/bolt, it spooked.

 

[RunToEarth]

So all dogs should be allowed to run off the lead when they are in public.

If you are on a footpath/bridleway they are trespassing if they deter from the path, however most people seem to think that it's acceptable to let their dogs run all over the field.

No I don't think it is acceptable at all, but I think people on this thread were highlighting that the dog walker may also have permission to be there, and that as nothing actually happened it was a bit of an over reaction to report to police - imagine what would happen if everyone called the police for near misses or incidents that could have happened but didn't.

Incidentally we have just been approached by a woman with a large vet bill for a Labrador who seems to have consumed slug pellets whilst out walking a footpath. If the woman had read the many many signs which stipulate that dogs should be kept on a lead she wouldn't be pursuing us. There seems to be a general understanding among certain dog walkers that dogs only need to be kept on leads when livestock is in the field.

 

[bonny]

No I don't think it is acceptable at all, but I think people on this thread were highlighting that the dog walker may also have permission to be there, and that as nothing actually happened it was a bit of an over reaction to report to police - imagine what would happen if everyone called the police for near misses or incidents that could have happened but didn't.

Incidentally we have just been approached by a woman with a large vet bill for a Labrador who seems to have consumed slug pellets whilst out walking a footpath. If the woman had read the many many signs which stipulate that dogs should be kept on a lead she wouldn't be pursuing us. There seems to be a general understanding among certain dog walkers that dogs only need to be kept on leads when livestock is in the field.

Bit of a tangent, but do you have slug pellets on/near a footpath....just curious ?

 

[4x4]

The op didn't mention anywhere that the horse reacted at all - let alone prancing, rearing, bucking etc. And to be honest any horse that reacts this way to everyday scarey things (i.e. a dog) really shouldn't be out and about - what if it was a pheasant that flapped, or a cat running through the undergrowth?

Love to know what the OP would do if she came across a pack of hounds on morning exercise - as used to regularly happen where I used to keep my horse on early morning hacks

This horse was hunted regularly by me until the ban, she is quite aware of what a pack of hounds are for, they are usually very controlled when out on exercise. The horse is a flight animal, prey of a dog. Simple.
They just need to be kept under control in public places. Do what you like in your own field or garden, but have some respect for other people.

 

[RunToEarth]

Bit of a tangent, but do you have slug pellets on/near a footpath....just curious ?

No, we don't pellet anywhere near public footpaths because I don't have enough faith in people's common sense not to pick it up and lick it! The nearest pelleted field was OSR which was a full field (18acres) further over than the footpath.

As a dog owner who grew up on the edge of moorland it has always been a no brainer to keep my dogs to heel when I'm anywhere but on home turf, because there was a real danger of them ending up in a snare or a peat bog. For some reason there are a wealth of people around here that just do not see the dangers of allowing their dogs to roam.

 

[Clodagh]

We slug pellet by footpaths, although not right up to them because we don't have any cross field paths and you don't pellet right up the edge of fields anyway. If we had crossfield paths yes we would, and Im sure most people do.

 

[Clodagh]

We slug pellet by footpaths, although not right up to them because we don't have any cross field paths and you don't pellet right up the edge of fields anyway. If we had crossfield paths yes we would, and Im sure most people do.

Just asked OH and he said you aren't meant o - just as well it has never come up for me then!!

 

[RunToEarth]

Just asked OH and he said you aren't meant o - just as well it has never come up for me then!!

We leave slightly more space than we are meant to when we're pelleting. I suppose it depends where in the country/how heavily walked you are. We seem to live in part of the world that attracts an absolute wealth of idiots - I saw someone walking in Ugg boots down a cultivated field last week - not on the neatly marked footpath, but down the tramline, whilst his Labradoodle put up most of the pheasants in the Home woods... I wouldn't trust him to successfully put one foot in front of the other, let alone be left to play with all the blue pretty pebbles in the field...!

 

[Lizzie66]

Well OP in reply to your question yes you are being unreasonable, for a number of reasons.

You don't know whether the person had permission to be on the land, the dog didn't do or try to do any damage to your horse, it barked in passing.

Yes dogs should be under control so should horses. How many people can hand on heart say that their horse is under control 100% of the time. The answer to that is none, does that mean you should never take it out ?

Are you seriously proposing that dogs should never have any time off a lead ever ?

No harm was done, in my opinion serious over reaction. Why can't people learn to be more tolerant of others rather than continually trying to find fault ?

 

[BWa]

If you were riding across our farm, with or without permission there is a big chance that a border collie would be 'lost' and returning to me at speed, horse in way or not.
And if I had been told to off by the rider they would have got a mouthful from me too. I appreciate the dog walker wasn't the land owner but if you ride on private land they you may run into people not expecting to meet others.

 

[Nikki J]

The op didn't mention anywhere that the horse reacted at all - let alone prancing, rearing, bucking etc. And to be honest any horse that reacts this way to everyday scarey things (i.e. a dog) really shouldn't be out and about - what if it was a pheasant that flapped, or a cat running through the undergrowth?

Love to know what the OP would do if she came across a pack of hounds on morning exercise - as used to regularly happen where I used to keep my horse on early morning hacks

I didn't mean to imply that she did - I was merely stating scenarios that can happen. Not everyone has a schoolmaster for a horse - I can think of literally hundreds of horses I have known over the decades that would behave in exactly the way I have described at a rattling pheasant, or a cat running through the undergrowth. My bombproof mare would shy violently at a crisp packet in the hedge that wasn't there in that very same place the day before. Horses are not desperately intelligent, but they have phenomenal memories, so something different on a particular day from the previous can make the quietest of horses shy ... or in more extreme cases, prance buck and rear as I have described.

Clearly, you are a confident, experienced and extremely competent rider. Not everyone falls into the same category. Horse riding is one of the most dangerous sports, mainly because horses are flight animals, unpredictable and hence the reason horse riding is categorised by insurance companies as one of the most dangerous sports. My cousin, who had been riding since she could walk, and rode for her university, hunted, evented and was an exceptionally good rider, was killed in her 30's when her horse was spooked on the Yorkshire moors we think by low-flying RAF aircraft. The horse, a youngster, came galloping into the yard minus my cousin, a search found her in a coma from which she never recovered. Even for the highly skilled, expert riders such as yourself, accidents happen and for the more novice riders, such as myself and the OP, a loose dog can be terrifying. I believe it is incumbent on dog owners such as myself to keep our dogs firmly under control when we see horse riders approaching.

 

[Holly Hocks]

Some of the attitude towards dogs on this thread are OTT IMO. It is usually the rider, not the horsethat is worried about dogs. The comment that all dogs should be on a lead and muzzled at all times is frankly ridiculous, and IMO on a par with all the car drivers who believe that horses should only be ridden in fields! I would suggest to those who are concerned about their horses reacting badly to dogs running past their horse, that they should try acclimatising their horses to dogs.

So agree with this ^^ and AmyMay. So if you have a horse that is traffic shy, do you not take it out in traffic to help traffic proof it? Of course you do. So maybe think of the incident OP as a little bit of dog proofing. We have quiet lanes where I hack out and there are often dogs off the lead - they don't hear me coming (unshod) and I don't see them due to the bends. When I see them, I stop so they have time to get hold of their dogs, I don't keep going relentlessly like I own the road. What do you do if a large bird flies out of a hedge? Your horse spooks but you can't do anything about that. A few months ago, I was approaching a T junction when a huge deer jumped over the wall and came towards me. When it had touched noses with my mare, who was doing a dance it leapt into the field at the side and got stuck between the hedge and the stock fencing. It then jumped out, literally onto my mare. Yes she spun and did a bit of an episode down the road, but I didn't feel the need to call for the local deer population to be eradicated. It's safe to say, that this incident hasn't affected her or given her a deer phobia