SatansLittleHelper
Well-Known Member
A horse that suits you perfectly is always a bargain whatever the price
This, in spades 👌👌👌
A horse that suits you perfectly is always a bargain whatever the price
I’m trying to understand what you mean (but failing I think!)..
So you don’t mean a typical mother daughter share, but more something that looks like a Ferrari, to be sold to someone with a Ferrari budget, but with Ford Fiesta riding ability?
Those are a very tough market to produce for.
Given you have mentioned Burghley, and given I have a reasonable feel for the event market here is how it goes ....
Raw material a little bit more - say 6-10k.
Production of an event horse circa 12k a year at lower levels, maybe 20k ish when running advanced.
Eventers in general is a numbers game. Start with 10 lower priced 4yo’s and maybe 1 is top, 2 advanced, 2 intermediate, 2 novice and 3 not worth putting a point on.
Then if you are going to sell the above the price that can be achieved is driven by one of 2 things - either how much potential they are showing for upper levels OR how easy they would be for a true amateur to ride at a lower level. If they have both you are laughing.
The problem is a large proportion of these horses are never suitable for the amateur market (but are sold to them anyway).
The production of these horses for upper level is actually quite different to the production for amateur sale - so you kind of need to cherry pick the non-4/5* horses at the beginning.
Then when you get to the point of sale and you are wanting to sell this produced event horse to an amateur who is understandability spending what appears to be a hell of a lot of money on paper, they then want the excellent record, the squeaky clean xrays as well as a temperament that will accommodate nerves, being missed at a big fence, etc. Etc.
So assuming all the above is there that 2 year produced novice horse will have cost in the region of 30-35k, a 3 year produced intermediate horse 45k ish.
The gamble is high. The market is extremely limited.
I vote buy cheap & young and learn to do the work yourself!
The problem with that is that if it looks like a ferrari, it will have the ferrari conformation and therefore the ferrari movement and athleticism......this is NOT what the ford fiesta brigade can wagon. Also, it doesn't take into account the brain/attitude that comes with the ferrari." but more something that looks like a Ferrari, to be sold to someone with a Ferrari budget, but with Ford Fiesta riding ability" is close i wasn't thinking of a Ferrari more of a 125 motorbike which looked like a 700 ducati!
So what would you pay for example for a rock solid gypsy coloured cob who was grat on roads in all traffic, very well schooled to elementary level dressage and competing successfully at BD regionals etc ?
So what would you pay for example for a rock solid gypsy coloured cob who was grat on roads in all traffic, very well schooled to elementary level dressage and competing successfully at BD regionals etc ?
#pedant mode....i think my Burghley comment put a side track on the quote, sorry for not being clearer about the type of "mother/daughter" share, but your analogy of " but more something that looks like a Ferrari, to be sold to someone with a Ferrari budget, but with Ford Fiesta riding ability" is close i wasn't thinking of a Ferrari more of a 125 motorbike which looked like a 700 ducati!
Sorry, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree......or at least to a VERY VERY limited clientele, such that it is unlikely to be of interest as a commercial proposition to anyone.....just my view though.
I both agree and disagree with this statement, I know many people who can really ride as we all grew up together and we all still ride, but also there are many on yards with nice horses that just can't ride themSo few people can actually ride....
I would pay more than £6k for him when he was at that stage too see i am even coming across wrong on here!Skint1 - it will cost us £6k easily to get our sweet, kind weight carrier from backing to 6yo (incl purchase price at 3), to the point where he could take anyone without blinking, to do anything at rc level. And that is just the cost of keep, not including the hours spent educating him, arena hire, show costs, transport costs....
I defo am in opposite camp. I live in the NF so have met lots of foresters and wouldn't have one myself. Many of them tend to have an ungenuine streak and whilst connies can be sharp I've never come across a nasty one.
- ones that *should* be a good eventer, jumper etc but haven’t got any comp record of any note but priced as if they are ‘that’ horse.
What do behaviour do class as ungenuine?
I have a Forester, I know he looks very cute and sweet and he does not always behave that way. People expect due to his size he will be slow but he is not he likes to go out hacking with big horses. I think the main issue with Foresters is that people under estimate their intelligence. I have had my new forest 12 years, I agree he is not 100% reliable but we get on well despite me being a lazy rider with little talents. I have done lots of different things with him and at 17 he is doing surprisingly well in the veteran classes. From what I have heard lots of new forests are still really active in their late 20's so I am hoping to be still riding him in 10 years time. I do feel lucky to have him. I paid £3150 for him as a 5 year old, that was 12 years ago, he was late backed as he had spent a couple of years as a stallion running on the forest. I expect people think that is expensive but if I am still riding him in 10 years time when he is 27 I will have considered that a bargain price.
I've always wondered if NF that have run on the forest have a bit of something about them that is different from a typical domestic horse that is used to being more reliant on humans.
A slight tangent, but I find a horse to not be genuine if they have a tendency to do things such as bite/kick unprovoked. Or generally take the pee and spook at nothing, throw in dirty stops, buck, drop shoulder to lose their rider etc.
Some of these things for sure can be a training issue, but I've always wondered if NF that have run on the forest have a bit of something about them that is different from a typical domestic horse that is used to being more reliant on humans.
I have only ever had one NF, forest bred and pony of a life time. Bought her just backed for me to school for my eight year old daughter. She was so clever, had very boxy feet and both my daughter’s did PC and showing. She certainly knew danger and hated dogs off the lead with a passion and would walk through hedges.She ruled our herd with a flick of an ear and literally every horse or pony loved her.None of the NF's I have had would do any of the above, certainly not biting or kicking ever, provoked or not, ridden they have all been extremely genuine jumping although most were started here even if already backed, one was on the sharp side of cheeky and could take the pee but he was established when I bought him and had a bit of a tough time in his previous home, they are bright ponies that really enjoy a job and most would be bored in a home where hacking was the main job but I would still have expected them to behave in a mannerly way, they have been a mix of stud and forest bred.
I think there are many people who think riding is sitting on a horse when it moves and never understand the work that goes into a decent eventer or dressage horse. I think people who are involved with competition riding and breeding competition horses dispair at the bad riding of people who come to buy the horse for sale.I think as riders get more incompetent, and more and more need a horse that will look after them and take them to win rosettes, or at least safely trot them round the block facing all that todays world can throw at it, the only way prices can go it up.
So few people now seem to want to cope with any even quite normal 'quirks'.
I have had both sides of that. Our NF who ran on the Forest was wily with a serious sense of humour, but also intensely loyal. She bit and kicked, bucked and dumped riders for England as a youngster and was intensely spooky. But when she bonded, it was strong and she never actually hurt anyone. She did her back in badly once, twisting in mid-air so she wouldn’t land on me when she tripped and fell out competing. She helped a little boy with dyspraxia ride - on her, he could do anything any other child could. She taught many children to ride in her time, including my son - he was five, and she was 13.2hh but he could hack her off the lead rein and be completely safe. The memory I will never forget though - is her chasing off a fox that had arrived in the field where my young children were. All of a sudden, there were two horses flanking the buggy and she was racing towards the fox, ears back, teeth out. Like I said, loyal. We lost her this year and she has left an enormous hole in our lives.
We now have a stud bred NF. None of the spookiness, sweet and kind and adores children. Went to her first show and didn’t bat an eyelid. Clever, and she does remind me of her predecessor, but much more relaxed. I used to joke with our forest bred mare that you could send anyone out on her knowing she would come back in one piece - the new one is sweet but I would trust my judgement over hers!