Unsustainable, elitist sport... how have we made it here?

[Chianti]

I don't compete, but the cost of horses will be why I won't be getting another when H goes, and a significant contributing factor to my massive loss of interest in the whole thing. I was warned its not the buying it's the keep that's the big cost, I wouldn't be advised at the time as its all I ever wanted. I now understand what everyone was trying to warn me. Also the cost of buying one having looked at adverts, not that I'd want to, would price me out as I'd want something safe and able to do everything with and these would be well out of my price range

The only thing that would change it would be to win the lottery and have my own land and stables I could keep them at.

I don't think I'd even loan.

I don't have a massive salary and the constant forking out for horse related costs, when I don't even enjoy it any more is very wearing.

I'm also at the time of my life where I'm starting to want children, and am well aware there is NO way I can afford the horse and a child. Maternity is so paltry most of it would go on the horse, and I couldn't expect OH to subsidise the horse costs if he were covering the bills and mortgage etc

Although I nearly fell through the floor when I heard what nursery costs, my goodness it made the horse look cheap and that says something!

Unfortunately nursery staff can't turn two year olds out in a field and leave then there for eight hours unsupervised!

 

[sbloom]

I think we put competing way too high in priorities, I see crooked, posturally compromised horses and riders going out and thrashing their way ("more left leg!!!!") round dressage, jumping, XC....we've forgotten the basics and forgotten than to do the basics well, and especially to learn them, is where we should be spending our money. Plus a good saddle of course

 

[spacefaer]

Going back to the cost of eventing, back in the 90s, we reckoned on it costing £5k pa to run a Novice horse, £10k an Intermediate and £15k for an Advanced. That was competition costs ie entry fees, diesel etc. This was before start fees, and excluded the anticipated end of season 3DE.

Generally, you'd run your N every fortnight, the Int every 3 weeks and the Adv when there was a class for it as they were limited and you had to travel.

There was a strong u/a framework which prepared you for Novice. If you could jump clear round a PC Open class, you'd be competitive at BE

 

[RachelFerd]

It's never been affordable - it's a luxury. I spend more on my horses each year than the average UK wage - it's through huge privilege that I'm able to do so... And yet this sport makes me feel quite poor when I compare my set up to others taking part...

I think the affordability shock happens to many when they start paying for it all themselves post-uni when parents were picking up the bill before.

 

[Velcrobum]

I had "lessons" if that what you could call them being lunged on an eventer when I was 6-8. Then had a pony aged 11 as father was a farmer. Was a weekend/school holiday working pupil for the same event rider during my teens. Then stopped as career in NHS low pay, long hours, weekend working on call at night excluded horse ownership. Got married in early 30's quit NHS inherited a small amount of money which enabled me to buy my first horse kept at DIY livery next door to then home. We moved to where we are now not long afterwards as it was derelict and had land but it was all we could afford. We did as much DIY as we could when renovating only employing people to do jobs we could not.

I evented on a shoestring by myself starting when BE was still a subsection of BHS. It has never been a cheap sport but has become much more expensive as everyone considers all the add ons to be part and parcel of competing. By that I mean chiropractor, nutritionist, back person, etc etc. I trained as much as I could and all my horses have been cheap 2 purchased as unbroken 3 year olds, the first was a failed SJ horse and the latest off the track TB.

 

[LEC]

Horses are elitist. In any other country they are really, really elitist! Maybe Australia and NZ are the exception due to land not being so prohibitively expensive. But in Australia, hay is often very expensive and distances to compete are vast.

I find it highly amusing that in the UK we feel we have this divine right to compete at what we want. The moaning and whining about not being able to afford to go eventing. Well, I would like a Ferrari and a 4 horse HGV but sadly my funds do not allow it. So I put up with what I can afford.

 

[Orangehorse]

I think British Eventing is addressing this, lowering membership rates and with a re-think on several levels. The UA has given them a bit of a shake up.

But it has always been the same. My wages £9.00 per week, Novice Eventing entry £5.00 per entry. I had a second evening job to help with the expenses and enjoyed my very modest achievements, but it was the cost that stopped me in the end. One girl said she had to think if she could afford a new bra, her budget was so tight. Another friend used to operate the petrol pumps (when we had such things) for extra money when she had qualified for a 3 day event. Another went to work in London in advertising during the week and came home for weekends, but had supportive family members to exercise the horse.

It is after all the pinnacle of achievement?

In my day there were still lots of hunter trials and small summer shows around and of course most people went hunting in the winter, so in fact we had more to do then than we have now, I think.

 

[Cortez]

Horses have been expensive and reserved for the elite since, well: forever. Historically it was the man who could afford a horse and knew how to ride it that was an aristocrat, the Romans even called their highest class "equestrians" for that very reason. When I was a kid only well-off people or farmer's children rode, our local Pony Club was the snobbiest place going, only topped by the yacht club. The idea that everyone is entitled to own a horse is a relatively recent phenomenon; if you can't afford it, you can't do it. I was a professional trainer & rider for nearly 50 years: I was paid to compete, I would never have been able to afford to do it on my own.

 

[Winters100]

I'm in no way shape or form underplaying the fact that I am in a very privileged position - people are very quick to jump on the ''be grateful for what you have'' bandwagon - I absolutely am. I'm actually referring to our sport becoming EVEN MORE elitist than it was before, to the point where it will only be the big earners out there as the more ''normal'' equestrians will simply be priced out of the game.

Having regrets about posting this. I'm so grateful for all I have and all I can do, but it hasn't landed in my lap - I've worked for it all. I was simply getting a little deflated at the fact the cost is exponentially growing and making in unfeasible for even the lucky ones who can cut some cost with livery etc., like myself.. Anyway, on you all go

I am not sure what you mean about people jumping on a "bandwagon", but this is not the case, it is simply that most are in agreement that someone who is, as an adult, lucky enough to have parents who help to fund their expensive hobby should be happy about it, not complaining that they want more. You say that you have "worked for all of it", but the problem is that you have not. Nothing wrong with that, my children have also not worked for their hobbies, and they will continue to be supported while they are in education, but I would not be very happy if they were complaining that it was not enough because there are others who have more. I am not saying this to me mean to you, simply to point out that your logic is flawed, and that in telling you that you should be grateful people are not jumping on a bandwagon.

If you were from a family without land and disposable income you would have had to buy your horses without help, pay every vets bill, farrier, lesson and the livery, not to mention your own rent and bills, all from student loans and part time jobs, so as a student it would not be possible. I have no doubt that you work hard at your hobby, and that you now pay some or all of the additional costs, but the fact remains that you do not object to this being an expensive sport, you just object to it when it gets too expensive for you. There simply are no 'ordinary' equestrians that you refer to in one of your posts, when we refer to ordinary we usually mean ourselves, and being in a position as a student to afford 2 horses is in no way ordinary.

You probably don't like to read this, but seriously in my opinion you need to think very carefully about how the majority live.

 

[I'm Dun]

I think British Eventing is addressing this, lowering membership rates and with a re-think on several levels. The UA has given them a bit of a shake up.

Thats whats brought this post about I assume. The shake up seems to have made it more expensive rather than not. They have removed compulsory insurance, but now if events are cancelled you effectively lose your entrance fee. Thats whats made me decide against it. I understand its expensive, that for me isnt the issue really. I'm not prepared to lose my, fairly large, entrance fee if the event has to be called off due to the weather.

From my naive point of view, the organisers should be paying for insurance to cover that surely?

 

[I'm Dun]

I was only going from what I was told at the time.

I didn't think any houses where going to be built? From what I can remember there is two owners now, one of the yard/arena section and another that now owns the XC area.

Its already been built on, part of it has been kept to run camps on though. It was a huge site on the very edge of a big village close to a train station close to London so was prime building land. I only know as I know the bloke who owns the land next door, and hes biding his time for his plot.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

What is the current cost to put a horse out currently, at lowest level BE in entry, registration etc?
Eg, the cost for 1st event of the season?

You can compete on a ticket: £25 for the rider and horse day pass plys entry fee. Entries this season were around the £100 mark. Unlimited entries at BE80, I think 5 at BE90 so enough for most people who want to give it a go without joining. So about £125 for each event plus tranpsort costs. And the cost of cheesy chips afterwards!

Or compete unaffiliated over the same courses - no membership fee and about £50 instead of £100 odd for entry.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

ETA last season Katie joined as she wanted to be selected for teams and to qualify for finals. But I will be getting Lottie out unaff - assuming we get to that point. I have no current plans to rejoin BE.

 

[southerncomfort]

I think I see what the OP is getting at.

Their are lots of sports where amateurs compete alongside professionals eg touring cars, golf etc and I think those sports are richer for it.

Their is currently a big furore in snooker where the professional players are complaining about amateurs being allowed to play them in the UK championship because 'we earn our living from this', the inference being that if you can't afford to give up your day job and do the sport full time you shouldn't be there even if you've just beaten a former world champion!

You do wonder where future champions will come from if their is no assistance given to up and coming players.

With regards to eventing I'm not sure what the answer is as their is no obvious way of cost cutting, so unless promising riders can attract sponsorship they're stuffed.

 

[stangs]

The only way BE could become affordable would be if the body/events themselves received massive sponsors.

That said, compared to other countries, eventing appears to me much more accessible here in the UK

 

[quizzie]

The only way BE could become affordable would be if the body/events themselves received massive sponsors.

That said, compared to other countries, eventing appears to me much more accessible here in the UK

Back in the old days, that is exactly what did happen...Midland Bank sponsored the whole thing.

 

[ycbm]

I am trying to remember back 20 years. There were a tiny number of events in April or October. If an event was cancelled my recollection is they kept some of the entry fee but not all.

Then insurance was introduced and more events that were very early and very late or ran on very risky ground were scheduled because the organisers knew they would be compensated if they were cancelled.

And that resulted in the crazy situation where every single entry is £15 more expensive to cover the cancellation insurance of events that have a way above average chance of being cancelled, many of which should probably never have been allowed in the schedule in the first place.

If removing insurance results in people not entering events which are likely to have to cancel, then I think that will probably be more fair for the sport overall.

 

[shortstuff99]

Here is me secretly hoping that it brings more competitors back to riding clubs. The horse trials champs used to go up to novice level but now it is only 100+ as couldn't get enough entries. There is now also an open 80 level so people can drop down now.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

You can compete on a ticket: £25 for the rider and horse day pass plys entry fee. Entries this season were around the £100 mark. Unlimited entries at BE80, I think 5 at BE90 so enough for most people who want to give it a go without joining. So about £125 for each event plus tranpsort costs. And the cost of cheesy chips afterwards!

Or compete unaffiliated over the same courses - no membership fee and about £50 instead of £100 odd for entry.

Thanks ?
Eventing appears it is cheaper than the likes of club racing (motorbikes). Which is the 2 wheel equivalent of BE 90/100 Imho.

Entries around £250 for the weekend (2 days; 10 mins warm up, 10 to 15 mins qualifying and a total of 3 or 4 races.
Test day on a Friday around £90 to £150, usually 6/7 x 15 min sessions.
Allow about £100 fuel, tyres (depending on class) £250 to £8/900 or more if fresh rubber for each race.
Plus annual membership of club around £100-120.
Around 8 to 10 meetings a year.
Extras are crash spares, engine refreshes, consumables etc.
V easy to chuck £1,200 to £1,500 a weekend if not more.

I've seen parents almost bankrupt themselves getting juniors out, adults breaking credit cards, it's just as much an addiction. The only difference is you can at least turn them off and leave in the garage.
As I said, this is club level under ACU regs at tracks across the UK (costs us a packet on travelling to the likes of Knockhill or Anglesey but cheap trip to Brands).
Next level up is BSB, now that really can get quite expensive, into 6 figures for the season to run at the front in supporting classes.

V interesting to compare another 'elitist' hobby, that's rammed through the season.

Event cancelled? Entries carried over to next round.
Event abandoned once started? A % of entry returned, depending on how far event was through.

 

[Orangehorse]

That is interesting to compare the cost of competing in other sports, because as horse riders we never do it.

And people do make it from very little - you have to have a certain income to simply afford a horse in the first place.

Robert Oliver, Leslie Law are two who spring to mind.

 

[chocolategirl]

It amazes me frankly how many people CAN afford to compete BE, I help out at a few different events, and from what I’ve seen, certainly pre covid, they always seem to be really well attended?‍

 

[honetpot]

I think everyone wants to look or be professional now, there seems to ever increasing pressure to have 'better' kit, clothes, treatment and lessons sold at a premium, with no real assessment of are these things effective. Over the years my daughters had lessons from international competitors, and people that pick the teams, and walked away, thinking well that was a waste of money.
I am about the same age as John Whitaker, so as a teenager I used to see him ride at local shows, he was just a kid busking a ride, in a battered hat and an ill-fitting jacket, obviously even at that age talented, but apart from the fact he had a jacket on, the kit didn't look much different from the second( possibly fourth hand) stuff we had in our tack room.
There seems a constant pressure on us, and more worrying on our horses, to be the best, achieve something, when only a top percentage will have the talent, and then the horse power to get there, no matter how much money you spend on, kit, lessons and entries.
When I rode a lot, people used to ask, did I ride, and my response is always no, I just sit on them. Yes I had some lessons, and I could get a tune out of a horse, but I am was aware of my limitations, and the whole industry is now geared up to pressure people into getting validation through someone else's eyes, and that validation needs something big and shiny, like a big competition to amplify what ever they were doing, and that costs money.
You can still find a cheap horse, and polish it up, but it takes time, and that's what people are short of. I used to organise very basic grass roots competitions, there is money to compete, and people want to do it, so in that respect I do not think it's more elitist, but if you want the the large events with all the bells and whistles, someone has to pay for it.

 

[teapot]

I think everyone wants to look or be professional now, there seems to ever increasing pressure to have 'better' kit, clothes, treatment and lessons sold at a premium, with no real assessment of are these things effective.

Nail on head there. Agree with all your post, but that bit stands out!

 

[ycbm]

I think everyone wants to look or be professional now, there seems to ever increasing pressure to have 'better' kit, clothes, treatment and lessons sold at a premium, with no real assessment of are these things effective. Over the years my daughters had lessons from international competitors, and people that pick the teams, and walked away, thinking well that was a waste of money.
I am about the same age as John Whitaker, so as a teenager I used to see him ride at local shows, he was just a kid busking a ride, in a battered hat and an ill-fitting jacket, obviously even at that age talented, but apart from the fact he had a jacket on, the kit didn't look much different from the second( possibly fourth hand) stuff we had in our tack room.
There seems a constant pressure on us, and more worrying on our horses, to be the best, achieve something, when only a top percentage will have the talent, and then the horse power to get there, no matter how much money you spend on, kit, lessons and entries.
When I rode a lot, people used to ask, did I ride, and my response is always no, I just sit on them. Yes I had some lessons, and I could get a tune out of a horse, but I am was aware of my limitations, and the whole industry is now geared up to pressure people into getting validation through someone else's eyes, and that validation needs something big and shiny, like a big competition to amplify what ever they were doing, and that costs money.
You can still find a cheap horse, and polish it up, but it takes time, and that's what people are short of. I used to organise very basic grass roots competitions, there is money to compete, and people want to do it, so in that respect I do not think it's more elitist, but if you want the the large events with all the bells and whistles, someone has to pay for it.

LOVE this post!

 

[milliepops]

the one thing i never begrudge investing in is lessons, because what you learn in good lessons applies to whatever dobbin you subsequently ride. I ride a lot of dobbins.
Time is the only way to compensate for a lack of ££ in general though, some people can walk straight in and buy a horse that can do the job and others start from scratch and put in the years getting to that stage. You can end up in the same sort of place. but it's awfully hard going if every penny counts,particularly eventing where there are 3 disciplines to keep up with.

I look at my baby horses and think maybe they would like to do that job (my yearling particularly seems to have the right attitude) but at the moment I'm struggling to imagine being able to get back to that point of feeling like i was doing it well enough. I used to be on a yard where i could bodge training all 3 phases at home with the hacking and fields available to ride in, but these days it's all boxing off for hire etc which just makes the costs skyrocket before you've even thought of entering a competition.

 

[sbloom]

Too many expensive boots, breeches, matchy matchy, bling on saddles....you name it...and not enough spent on what really matters. Brilliant post @honetpot

 

[Orangehorse]

And Mary King, of course, who used to borrow the vicar's pony to ride.

 

[EventingMum]

I think many people really scrimp and save to compete BE. Certainly, when my son was doing so we bought young horses to bring on ourselves as we couldn't afford anything that had already been out and about. We didn't take holidays or have any other hobbies, our money went on entries, running the lorry and training. It was definitely a lifestyle choice and something we as a family were all committed to but it would have been very different if we had had more than one child and took both Mr EM and I working to do it.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Thank you for sharing.

Sharing? Sharing what?
Have you read the thread you have bounced? 2021 thread.....

 

[Fieldlife]

I was reading the latest statements from local BE centres and from BE themselves about the situation with abandonment insurance, and it got me thinking.

I'm studying at uni whilst trying to hold down a job to pay for my horses, something I don't at all resent as it is a choice and I love it. However, I am beginning to resent the sport that I used to love, purely because it is reaching a point where it is simply unsustainable for us ''normal'' folk to afford to do what we love.

As much as I love doodling around at home, hacking out over the hills and generally having a nice time, I'm an ambitious person and really do enjoy competing. Yet, I sat here today and did some maths to try and work out how much it would cost me to register BE next year and do a handful of events that are local to me... on top of feeding, shoeing, surprise vet bills, insurance premiums, supplements, bodywork, new equipment... I was left thinking how the heck am I going to afford it. I am incredibly lucky to keep my horses at home and have no livery to pay, otherwise I think I'd be selling up now and packing it in! But realistically, what does the future of our sport look like?

Is it just going to be a competition between those with the means and the money? Or are any organisations going to even *attempt* to make it affordable for those who can't just flippantly enter an event and not give two monkeys if it gets abandoned as they make the cost of their entry fee make every 3 minutes. I don't mean to moan and complain as I am very lucky to even have my own horses and to be able to do what I do...but I just can't help but feel this is the beginning of the end for people who don't have the odd 1k lying behind the sofa no matter how hard we work or try...

Interested to hear other people's thoughts (or money saving ideas haha!).

I think owning a horse and being at uni is a lot. For most people affiliated competing would have to wait until have a full time income. Unless have a private income source.