Update on Lari

[lozzles]

Really sorry to hear your news. I think to be honest it's a happier life for them living out if they aren't in work. More stimulation than being stabled at night. My Kwpn everyone told me would hate living out. He's turned out to be insanely hardy and the happiest I've known him . Proven by the fact he rarely ever cribs now. He wouldn't do well in a big herd as he's.so submissive despite his size but he thrives living out in a pair with a shelter.

 

[SO1]

So sorry to hear this especially as I remember how careful you were with the purchase and making sure you were getting a sound horse and upping your budget.

I am sure he would be fine living out. There are a lot of places with a lot of grass that do retirement livery and will rug for you in the winter. When I was thinking I might need to retire my pony it was much harder to find options for a small good doer than great big poor doers. I think because a lot of people do retire sports horses to grass there are plenty of options.

 

[Caol Ila]

That is such a shame, Birker. I remember all your trials and tribulations with horse hunting. I agree with some of the above advice -- turn him away for 6-to-12 months and reassess. Sometimes, Dr. Green can work wonders.

 

[nutjob]

@Birker2020 I sent you a pm

 

[Getbackboys]

sorry to hear this and thank you for giving him retirement time. can i just say time is a great healer and 2 ywars 3 years out in a field allowing the body to heal you may well canter across those firlds again, dont give up, think of this time as healing and be positive, it is not the end, it is but only a blip on the horizon. many racehorses with bad injuries come back winning after a few years time out, so be positive

 

[Birker2020]

sorry to hear this and thank you for giving him retirement time. can i just say time is a great healer and 2 ywars 3 years out in a field allowing the body to heal you may well canter across those firlds again, dont give up, think of this time as healing and be positive, it is not the end, it is but only a blip on the horizon. many racehorses with bad injuries come back winning after a few years time out, so be positive

Aw thank you.

My options as I see things at the moment are:
1) Retirement home
2) Blood bank
3) PTS
4) Further vet investigation as current claim(s) open until Oct 2022.

I hear what you are saying about retirement time and time out in the field allowing him to heal. But if I place him in a retirement environment, my opinion is that it would then be very cruel to take him away from his field buddies in an attempt to try to ride him. I think this would make him very sour and I don't know if it would be in his best interests. So once that decision of retirement had been reached I would have to stick to it.

If I were to send him to the blood bank then that would be final, I'd not see him again and I don't know if I am prepared to do that. Yes it would mean I could start again with another horse but I would have to save for around 14 months for the £10 -£12K I'd be looking at spending and there is no guarantee that there would be room at the yard as obviously my stable/paddock would be full. There are other yards but I love it where I am.

Having him PTS: has never been on the cards unless the vet feels that he can't live a life pain free.

Further intervention: To be honest, whilst he looks visibly lame on the concrete/hardstanding lane he doesn't look hugely bad behind but I am aware he is bilaterally lame so it is much harder to see. The vet was on about denerving the Proximal Suspensory ligaments. I am also toying with the idea of getting him scoped as he has a lot of symptoms of gastric ulcers. But I feel that he has too many issues to cope with and sooner or later he will go wrong again.

It was a shame that I couldn't keep him in regular work but initially with the saddle issues and then his acccident, it wasn't possible to do so and I think this is where the glue that had held him together literally became unstuck.

 

[scats]

FWIW, when I retired the hooligan with his various ailments that had made him unpredictable to ride (KS, navicular, arthritis…), I sent him to a lovely retirement herd a few miles away in the May time. He thrived for 6 months and I was overjoyed, but it became clear around October that he was starting to struggle and winter out wasn’t going to work for him. He lost a lot of weight and would just stand cribbing all day at the fence, then getting very stiff as a result. I brought him home, but he started with his box walking and ridiculousness and that helped me make a decision. He was 13. He went to sleep the next day.
I felt at peace because he’d had a lovely 6 months out to be a horse and the chance of a good retirement had been there. The fact that it hadn’t worked out was sad, because I was more than willing to let him live his days as long as he was happy, but it just helped me to make a tough decision when it didn’t work.
Sometimes situations change and you just have to make decisions based on how you feel things are progressing.

 

[BBP]

That’s rubbish news, I’m really sorry for you and for him. As the owner of a similarly fragile beast you have all my support and sympathy. I’m in a lucky position with BBP that I don’t have to pay for livery, and I don’t really care about the riding part (although I do really miss riding him, I’m not bothered about the idea of riding something else) so retirement is an easier choice but I do constantly reassess his issues to make sure it is still the right decision for him.

 

[Birker2020]

FWIW, when I retired the hooligan with his various ailments that had made him unpredictable to ride (KS, navicular, arthritis…), I sent him to a lovely retirement herd a few miles away in the May time. He thrived for 6 months and I was overjoyed, but it became clear around October that he was starting to struggle and winter out wasn’t going to work for him. He lost a lot of weight and would just stand cribbing all day at the fence, then getting very stiff as a result. I brought him home, but he started with his box walking and ridiculousness and that helped me make a decision. He was 13. He went to sleep the next day.
I felt at peace because he’d had a lovely 6 months out to be a horse and the chance of a good retirement had been there. The fact that it hadn’t worked out was sad, because I was more than willing to let him live his days as long as he was happy, but it just helped me to make a tough decision when it didn’t work.
Sometimes situations change and you just have to make decisions based on how you feel things are progressing.

Yes I agree.

At the moment I don't think I could live with myself if I didn't give him a chance. The reality might be that he'd be better off PTS but I need to do what you did and assess him. After all the lovely helpful replies I've had on here it makes me wonder whether the retirement livery option where he is out 365 days a year would be the best, I'm sure he would cope with adequate forage and shelter. I don't know if I could still afford another horse but it would mean that I would have more money to live my life and do things I want to do and forget owning/riding a horse for a few years. So when the time comes and my financial situation changes, (I will come into significant inheritance) I will be able to continue to pay for him in retirement and buy and finance the keep of another horse.

I am going to have a good chat with the vet next Friday and I have also asked my physio friend if she will come by our house and have a coffee with my partner and I and discuss Lari in further detail as a friend. She is a realist and I think she would have me more grounded with my thoughts, which is probably what I need.

 

[Birker2020]

That’s rubbish news, I’m really sorry for you and for him. As the owner of a similarly fragile beast you have all my support and sympathy. I’m in a lucky position with BBP that I don’t have to pay for livery, and I don’t really care about the riding part (although I do really miss riding him, I’m not bothered about the idea of riding something else) so retirement is an easier choice but I do constantly reassess his issues to make sure it is still the right decision for him.

Sorry about BBP. No you are undoubtedly better off not being surrounded by people constantly riding and having fun and completely get you miss riding. But it really hits me where it hurts. Its like rubbing salt into a open wound for me so any vet intervention will have to be moderately quick in both action and possible outcome as much as I love the yard, the horse and the people, I really hate the fact that I constantly feel miserable, frustrated and deflated that I can't ride.

 

[Fluffypiglet]

So sorry to hear this. You have good plans in place going forward, just a terrible shame you’re in this position. He’s a lucky horse whatever the final outcome.

 

[Birker2020]

So sorry to hear this. You have good plans in place going forward, just a terrible shame you’re in this position. He’s a lucky horse whatever the final outcome.

Thank you. It's very disappointing but it will happen one day. But like someone said on the thread earlier, I will probably be too old by then

In the meantime I'm going to concentrate on getting fitter, really hit that gym, possibly start doing a boot camp type of thing that the YO has going on at the yard (trouble is I'm not strong enough at the moment for that) and adopt a healthier lifestyle. And start saving

Lari was dropped off by the sales people yesterday morning - my partner was there and took delivery of him. All day at work I was desperate to see him and then had to take Mum for an appointment at the doctors at 5pm, so didn't get up the yard till gone 6. So I walked up to his stable, gave him his usual whistle, he put his head over the door and gave me a lovely whinny, it makes it all worth while then.

 

[Hannahgb]

I'm so sorry, but hes a very lucky boy to have landed with you

 

[Horseysheepy]

I'm so very sorry, having been in a similar position to yourself, I know how soul destroying it can all be. I'm so lucky I can keep my retirees at home as I would have had to pts otherwise.

Please don't give up! Going to the gym is a fantastic idea and a stress buster which will help you in so many ways.

 

[Birker2020]

I'm so very sorry, having been in a similar position to yourself, I know how soul destroying it can all be. I'm so lucky I can keep my retirees at home as I would have had to pts otherwise.

Please don't give up! Going to the gym is a fantastic idea and a stress buster which will help you in so many ways.

Yes it helped when I lost Bailey last June and its been a fantastic way of letting off a bit of steam these past few weeks. If I didn't have the fun of my trip spin classes I don't know what I'd do.

 

[Birker2020]

and adopt a healthier lifestyle.

Update: just been wandering around Tesco's wanting something savoury to eat for breakfast. After my head said no to a Cornish Pasty, a six pack of McCoys and a pair of Finest Scotch Eggs I went next door to the award winning bakery and had an award winning sausage roll

There is no hope for me, absolutely none at all .............

 

[splashgirl45]

Eating junk food is a way to deal with your head being all over the place. Once you have talked to the vet and your friend you may be clearer in your mind about the way forward.. then get going on your healthy eating and fitness. Fingers crossed you can find a good outcome as lari sounds like a lovely boy apart from his problems , I wish you lots of luck ??

 

[Asha]

Sorry to read this Birker. You both really deserved a better outcome. Youve had plenty of great advice on here already so nothing further to add from me. Im sure you will make the decision thats right for you both. Best of luck

 

[RachelFerd]

Yes I agree.

At the moment I don't think I could live with myself if I didn't give him a chance. The reality might be that he'd be better off PTS but I need to do what you did and assess him. After all the lovely helpful replies I've had on here it makes me wonder whether the retirement livery option where he is out 365 days a year would be the best, I'm sure he would cope with adequate forage and shelter. I don't know if I could still afford another horse but it would mean that I would have more money to live my life and do things I want to do and forget owning/riding a horse for a few years. So when the time comes and my financial situation changes, (I will come into significant inheritance) I will be able to continue to pay for him in retirement and buy and finance the keep of another horse.

I am going to have a good chat with the vet next Friday and I have also asked my physio friend if she will come by our house and have a coffee with my partner and I and discuss Lari in further detail as a friend. She is a realist and I think she would have me more grounded with my thoughts, which is probably what I need.

I don't know where you are, but I've got a retirement situ for my delicate one where he is out 24/7 in summer and gets to stay in a big social barn in the winter. It's £240 a month inc all extra feed, hay and foot trimming, I can visit whenever I like and I get lots of updates. He even gets the odd bath and tidy up to keep him looking respectable. It's a good halfway house between a 365 24/7 TO option and a stabled option.

 

[Birker2020]

I don't know where you are, but I've got a retirement situ for my delicate one where he is out 24/7 in summer and gets to stay in a big social barn in the winter. It's £240 a month inc all extra feed, hay and foot trimming, I can visit whenever I like and I get lots of updates. He even gets the odd bath and tidy up to keep him looking respectable. It's a good halfway house between a 365 24/7 TO option and a stabled option.

That's the sort of set up the blood bank have got.
It sounds the type of thing I'm looking for.
Were in the Midlands so would ideally like somewhere within the Warwickshire area, I think you are Cheshire/Northumbria way?

 

[RachelFerd]

That's the sort of set up the blood bank have got.
It sounds the type of thing I'm looking for.
Were in the Midlands so would ideally like somewhere within the Warwickshire area, I think you are Cheshire/Northumbria way?

Yep I'm Cheshire. I know of two set-ups like this in Cheshire but sure there are others elsewhere. It's nice to know that you're free to pull them in from the field and give them a pamper should you want/wish to.

 

[Coblette]

Such sad news B, sending you a virtual hug

 

[Birker2020]

Yep I'm Cheshire. I know of two set-ups like this in Cheshire but sure there are others elsewhere. It's nice to know that you're free to pull them in from the field and give them a pamper should you want/wish to.

Lari did loads of eventing up your way with BE, up to 1.05m. He's got quite an extensive BE record. Its very sad as he was a good horse once, did some nice dressage tests. I bought him from Cheshire.

 

[TRECtastic]

A sad update but you've done all you can to help him be the ridden horse you wanted

If you like swimming I can really recommend open water swimming for health and wellbeing. I think you're in the Midlands? If you're on fb have a look at West Midlands bluetits , they do lots of meet up swims , everyone welcome . It does burn a lot of calories, but I usually eat more cake than I've swam off ?

 

[misst]

So sorry to read this as at one point it was looking so hopeful. Whatever you decide it looks as if his future will be secure. They break our hearts but we get such joy from them too x hugs xxx

 

[Peglo]

So sorry to hear your update. You really did dedicate so much time and effort into fixing him, you deserved a better outcome. Sending you both all the best for the next stage of your journey.

 

[Bluewaves]

My little warmblood has been retired on grass livery for a few years with a couple of other horses. It's about 150 a month. Some of his friends have been PTS and he made new friends when other other horses arrived. He has coped so well as an ex sports horse with going from full livery to full time living out every day. He only comes in for vet visits and farrier. He absolutley loves it and has thrived. The yard owner keeps an eye on them all.

Also, not seeing him every day means its easier for me to make the decision to PTS when he's not fit for living out anymore. That probably sounds a bit heartless. Even though i love him to bits, it will be easier to let him go now than the other horse i have who i ride and see every day.

 

[angel7]

You still have insurance running yes?
Consider using it up if it wont cost you, the denerving surgery for the hind suspensories is common and straightforward and will provide pain relief for him.
If only 2 processes touching get them bone nibbled to provide more space. THe 2 ops could be done at the same time.
Treat for ulcers anyway with the ambler mob and consider a course of bute/metacam to provide whole body pain relief.
6 Months recovery out at grass might get you a hacking horse back.
Forget the school as horses were not made to go in circles and you could be bimbling about next year.
I'm suggesting this as someone who is very realistic and has put many young horses to sleep as unfixable.

 

[fankino04]

I'm so sorry to hear this outcome. You really tried and were so unlucky. Horses are such heartbreakers.

Re the living out 24/7, there are some horses that genuinely don't like living out 24/7 but very very few. All my retired ones are happier and healthier out 24/7. Is it worth asking your vet for his opinion on it? It sounds like this would be the win win scenario where you could have another horse as well as keeping Lari.

When I hadn't fully decided to retire my girl and still had her stabled at night we got evicted from a yard as she was so bad to bring in from the field. She was crowding the gate, bargey and bad mannered, running through / over people to get to her stable at night (she only did this with the grooms never me so don't know how we could of fixed this), anyway when I decided just to retire her and turn her out 24/7 she went the other way and is so happy living out she turns into a stroppy mare when she leaves the field. Sometimes they just need time to adjust to a new routine.

 

[Birker2020]

You still have insurance running yes?
Consider using it up if it wont cost you, the denerving surgery for the hind suspensories is common and straightforward and will provide pain relief for him.
If only 2 processes touching get them bone nibbled to provide more space. THe 2 ops could be done at the same time.
Treat for ulcers anyway with the ambler mob and consider a course of bute/metacam to provide whole body pain relief.
6 Months recovery out at grass might get you a hacking horse back.
Forget the school as horses were not made to go in circles and you could be bimbling about next year.
I'm suggesting this as someone who is very realistic and has put many young horses to sleep as unfixable.

Hey thanks for this Angel 7, some good advice.

Part of me is considering further investigation but in view of all his other issues (hocks, SI, KS, neck arthritis (possibly), coffin joint arthritis, can't keep shoes on for five minutes, loses weight quickly I honestly don't know if I want to go down that route.

Tuesday evening he had a clench sticking out under his foot, it had managed to loosen itself so that it had double backed on itself and he was stood on the shaft of it but it was still connected to the outside wall of the foot. So I managed to pull the clench out of the foot but I kind of guessed he'd lose the shoe and sure enough last night when I got to the yard he was missing the shoe. It took an hour or so but we found it in the end. Last night he went out in a foot boot and I got him in at 6.30am this morning and he still had it on so no more damage for now.

I've also noticed that when I give him a bowl of feed on the floor he takes a mouthful then raises his head to eat it slowly. But when he has a bowl held in my hands or a manger bowl that fits on the stable door he doesn't take his head out of it. This rather makes me wonder whether his issues are down to the C5-C6, C6- C7 bone remodelling that the xrays found back in November. I wonder if this alone could be the route cause.

The farrier is coming out today to put the shoe back on but there's not much horn left around the sides, he's really messed it up. He had over reach boots on (he never has them off as he's done this before) but they've really taken a bashing whilst he was away on sales livery for some reason. He's been on Happy Hoof/Healthy Hooves for about 18 months now (as previous owner did to) so that's doing naff all.

So in view of all the issues I'm not sure we will ever get him right.
If we do he will be a complete money pit in the future and he is only 11. I will be jabbing him every 12 months or more. And if he starts hurting again I will be on the floor, there's no two ways about it. I don't feel confident to get on him again to do any investigative work or to rehab him.

However, I've spoken to someone who said they might be able to do schooling livery for me to see if we can get him going into full work and see how he bears up if I do go down the route of ulcer/PSL route but already my excesses have and will cost me over £1000 if they decide to split all the claims and I don't know how much more money I can pour into him.

I am going to speak to the vet frankly next Friday and see if it worth continuing investigation. I know he is a vet and its in his interests to make money but I am sure that he will also consider the horses best interests and so I am hoping he will give me a fair indication of what he thinks. I am also desperate to speak to my vet physio friend and get her take on it, although I kind of already know her feelings.

I also have to consider my mental health. I have got to the stage now where I am really struggling with all the stress. I have had weeks of 3-5 hour nights sleep, I feel constantly drained and tired although my gym sessions make me feel better. I worry constantly about his future, this morning I would have happily agreed to have him PTS if a vet had been on the yard, yet the day before wanted full investigations!

Its a nightmare, I said to my other half this morning, all I want is some light hearted fun in my life, I'm sick of it all, the stress and the financial burden.