Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Don’t discuss things like this situation with people like it’s just unfruitful .
Update on Lari
- Thread starter Birker2020
- Start date
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Yes I agree. Its a waste of time trying to justify the thought process, much less understand hers.
Muddy unicorn
Well-Known Member
I agree - my gelding’s absolute worst season is summer - he gets fat just looking at the grass, his allergy issues get worse, his asthma flares up whenever there’s a heat wave - he’s so much happier once autumn rolls around. If we get to the point where he’s not field-sound then the worst thing I could do for him is give him ‘one last summer’.
I hope you manage to come to a decision which gives you some comfort and closure.
NR88
Well-Known Member
I would not send any horse to a blood bank for these, and many other, reasons too. I am not a "snowflake" and I do know how one blood bank operates first hand.
As you have also posted, he can do himself damage in the field and a blood bank will not be monitoring him closely nor administering pain relief if required for his comfort and well being. Sending a horse to a blood bank is, at best, moving the decision onto someone else to ease the misplaced guilt of having to make the call oneself.
A retirement livery where they receive full livery care to monitor his comfort levels will be expensive and to what end? The inevitable decision will be constantly looming over you.
I am in full agreement with Eventing Mum. You have my sympathy; it is never a pleasant position to be in with any animal.
EllenJay
Well-Known Member
Milton Keynes blood bank (hope the link works) https://www.tcsbiosciences.co.uk/donor_horse_serum.php?genre=pharma
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Yes thanks I've already seen this but I wanted the guy who runs it number. But I've got it now, thank you x
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
I understand what you are saying and I hear where you are coming from and I'm not wanting to get into a big discussion about the rights and wrongs about blood banks.
But I will say that it is in their interests to have horses that are as physically well and happy as possible for the blood that is harvested. Their teeth are floated and their feet trimmed and I have been told that they notice straight away if a horse isn't faring well within the herd. In this situation they will step in and offer short term assistance to that horse. If it is a long term problem that cannot be sorted then they will not continue with that horse if the situation cannot be remedied quickly and easily. I believe the horse is then pts there on the premises.
All the horses are known by name and when people have rung up about their horses the person dealing with that side of things seems to know all about them and how they are doing.
Like I say I've made no decision as yet, and may not for some time to come.
Peglo
Well-Known Member
So sorry to hear this outcome. I’ve been following your story and hoping so much something would go right but I’ve also felt a bit overwhelmed with everything your having to deal with. You really have done everything for Lari.
if you decide to PTS and anyone makes you feel bad, give them the option to take on Lari and his pain and your stress. I’m no sure anyone will take you up on it so try not to feel too bad.
if you decide to PTS and anyone makes you feel bad, give them the option to take on Lari and his pain and your stress. I’m no sure anyone will take you up on it so try not to feel too bad.
Dexter
Well-Known Member
They dont allow them to be medicated though and it sounds like that is the bare minimum he needs. If he isnt sound with you in a field then being at the blood bank wont change it
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Yes I accept that.
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
So sorry to hear this, you were so helpful with my problems earlier in the year, I also had the same about "one last summer and the chance to have the sun on his back" although mine was much more driven by the fact I could no longer afford horses and him being unable to keep weight on and I couldn't afford further investigations. Fortunately my OH was supportive. Following the announcements and the worry over mortgage interest rates my word am I relieved I've got out of horses. I didn't pass him (on in his 20s with Cushing's), I secured his future, and you know how my decision went down as you were one of the lovely people I was pming throughout.
So you won't receive any criticism if you decide to PTS. You could do all that rehab and he break again. He doesn't know he will have "missed out on one last summer" as someone said to me all he'll be stood thinking is how nice all the extra treats he's getting are. You've tried so many options, unfortunately there reaches a point where you can't help them anymore. You also need to help yourself first, and I won't judge you if you can't face this anymore. Maybe he's one of those that's too broken to fix and you'll be freeing him from his discomfort. If he's in pain, will the blood bank allow him pain meds? I'm just wondering if he will be in discomfort there? Definitely worth a chat with them though
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Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Yes my friend has always said 'you can't fix them all' and there will always be one or two that can't be saved.
I do have to think of my mental health. You are correct. I am happy to continue until next Spring but equally at the moment I don't really feel its of any benefit to do so unless I can get him on the list for the blood bank and the spring intake.
No the blood bank don't allow them medication, they can't take blood from them if they are medicated but the vet has told me time and time again that he will be comfortable if he is not ridden and he obviously won't be ridden at the blood bank. My physio had told me that too. Lots of horses have hooned in the field and injured themselves, so I can hardly make that a qualifying criteria to whether he goes there or not and the reality is that he was being worked at the time so that might have been why he was sore, its all assumption unfortunately. I'm assuming that when they are in at the BB with the acreage that they have, horses are more settled than a horse that's in an individual paddock and seeks company from other horses by rearing at them over the fence or galloping down the fence line because his friend in the adjoining paddock does, which is what he does from time to time because he is bored. Don't get me wrong its my choice to keep him in an individual paddock, nearly all the horses on the yard are and its my personal preference.
Having lost a previous horse in a herd turnout situation, and with my past horse nearly ending up with a catastrophic fracture (had I not been on the ball about why she was still so lame after a weeks box rest following a kick) it makes sense to me to keep them individual but that's just personal taste.
Anyway I'm taking it a day at a time, will have the rider get on board again in two weeks, see what happens then and try and make a decision about which way its going.
I've finished work for the day now folks, but thanks everyone for your comments.
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SO1
Well-Known Member
So sorry to hear this.
I don't think you will be able to guarantee a place in the Spring at the Blood Bank as I expect vacancies rely on horses passing away and then they are filled by the next available horse and you don't know how many people will donate suitable horses. It is not like you can pay to reserve a slot for him you have to wait until one is available.
Rehabing a horse in winter is hard work. I do feel for you. It is a difficult decision. I think it makes it harder if you need to pay a professional rider to help you get him going again.
He could be in retirement for about 15 years if you retire him and if you cannot afford a retired horse and to be able to ride either by buying a 2nd horse, loaning, sharing or riding at a RS and do not get what you need for your mental health with having a retired pet horse then you may have to let him go.
Everyone is different in their mind set, financial situation and what is important to them.
You may want to not do any treatment that involves box rest or set yourself a budget after which you will stop and retire or PTS.
I don't think you will be able to guarantee a place in the Spring at the Blood Bank as I expect vacancies rely on horses passing away and then they are filled by the next available horse and you don't know how many people will donate suitable horses. It is not like you can pay to reserve a slot for him you have to wait until one is available.
Rehabing a horse in winter is hard work. I do feel for you. It is a difficult decision. I think it makes it harder if you need to pay a professional rider to help you get him going again.
He could be in retirement for about 15 years if you retire him and if you cannot afford a retired horse and to be able to ride either by buying a 2nd horse, loaning, sharing or riding at a RS and do not get what you need for your mental health with having a retired pet horse then you may have to let him go.
Everyone is different in their mind set, financial situation and what is important to them.
You may want to not do any treatment that involves box rest or set yourself a budget after which you will stop and retire or PTS.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Nobody can know that for sure and it's one reason why I don't retire my horses. Don't forget you also had a vet who passed him for you to buy, B.
I'm sorry to sound negative but I couldn't be sure in your situation with so many things wrong with him that he will ever be comfortable.
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SO1
Well-Known Member
Saw this on Facebook and thought of you Ann. You should be proud of what you are doing with Lari but sadly not all horses can be fixed or what needs to be done in order for them to be a ridden horse is not possible with the resources and time that that someone who needs to work for a living and is on a normal salary can provide. We all have different levels of tolerance and emotional strength when it comes to these sort of situations. We all have different financial and time limits and abilities.
Someone who had a lot of time, money and was a professional rider may have managed to get Lari sound enough to pass a vetting. Or he may have come to you fine and injured himself whilst in your care.
It is obviously affecting your mental health. I would give yourself until the insurance money runs out. If he is still not a horse that is suitable for you to ride. I would turn away and give yourself a rest to focus on the issues with your mum. If you have enough funds ride at a riding school.
You could try bringing him back into work after a year off and see how it goes.
Horse prices remain very high at the moment to replace Lari you would probably need at least 10k.
https://www.facebook.com/1000572680...ziZ9iH1vFHyGZopC412vkVE7dJWvDgocv4m9RZ8SQsdl/
I can see you are very fond of Lari but understand the costs of keeping him retired for a long period of time. I also understand after loosing Bailey the desperation to fill the gap left by her and not wanting to be without a horse that you can enjoy.
Someone who had a lot of time, money and was a professional rider may have managed to get Lari sound enough to pass a vetting. Or he may have come to you fine and injured himself whilst in your care.
It is obviously affecting your mental health. I would give yourself until the insurance money runs out. If he is still not a horse that is suitable for you to ride. I would turn away and give yourself a rest to focus on the issues with your mum. If you have enough funds ride at a riding school.
You could try bringing him back into work after a year off and see how it goes.
Horse prices remain very high at the moment to replace Lari you would probably need at least 10k.
https://www.facebook.com/1000572680...ziZ9iH1vFHyGZopC412vkVE7dJWvDgocv4m9RZ8SQsdl/
I can see you are very fond of Lari but understand the costs of keeping him retired for a long period of time. I also understand after loosing Bailey the desperation to fill the gap left by her and not wanting to be without a horse that you can enjoy.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Hi thanks for your post. I am fond of him but I'm not going to give him a year off, I've had a year of not riding him already and the vet says to crack on now he's had his S.I and hocks medicated. So in two weeks i have a rider who will ride him twice weekly to see if he stands up to work but having done this already I doubt he will.
I was going to retire him at a retirement yard but can't justify the cost. In reality £250 a month for the next 10-15 yrs. I thought I could do this but having been away on holiday for a week its put things in a new light.
I thought I'd happily go into debt to allow me to keep two but I can't bring myself to do this, even if i can pay it off eventually and my current salary doesn't allow this.
I could just keep him but its ripping me apart seeing people riding when I can't and seeing them going out to shows and having fun, its incredibly frustrating, and depressing particualrly as i bought him to ride and compete.
I thought if I could ride a riding school horse a couple of times a week it woud help quell the desire to ride and I might be able to still keep him but the weight limit is currently under what I weigh as I've put on weight again due to the stress of it all as I'm an emotional eater.
I've given a year to this boy, there is no way I'm giving anymore time and anyway it won't make any difference. I will give him till April to see if i can get him in at the bloodbank or find someone who has something to ride otherwise he will be pts.
I can't read the link as I've taken myself of FB because it was upsetting me too much.
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Barton Bounty
Just simply loving life with Orbi 🥰
That sounds like a very fair decision. Its a hard position to be in.
tristar
Well-Known Member
sorry its still going on B, i had a horse once who was not happy ridden, a couple of small probs, but the vet always thought as of sound, one day he acted up, so i thought thats it i will retire him, then i thought of vit E, nothing to lose, it started him on it, within a month he seemed different, relaxed and happy, 5 months later i decided to try riding him again, as he was so different, he has never looked back, in fact he is flying it.
now i i`m not saying for one moment that WILL happen with lari, but as side thing what would you have to lose except another few quid, with on vit e, i`m a believer in outside bets when up a cul de sac,
just thinking really along the lines of if he is holding tension it could have contributed to his conditions in the first place, and if the vit e helps his muscles he may end up giving a clearer pic of where to go from here
sure it may be not help at all, just a thought really, hope i have not added to your burden over this horse, and hope some light comes on the situation during the winter,x
now i i`m not saying for one moment that WILL happen with lari, but as side thing what would you have to lose except another few quid, with on vit e, i`m a believer in outside bets when up a cul de sac,
just thinking really along the lines of if he is holding tension it could have contributed to his conditions in the first place, and if the vit e helps his muscles he may end up giving a clearer pic of where to go from here
sure it may be not help at all, just a thought really, hope i have not added to your burden over this horse, and hope some light comes on the situation during the winter,x
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Aww thanks for that suggestion but I've beaten you to it and I've been down this road already.
He's been on Progressive Earths Vitamin E, strip grazed, lower calorie hay, no carrots, apples or cabbage which he loved but it made no difference, I did this for about three weeks, I think the first week he was still being ridden.
When I came back from holiday I started carrots again as I thought there was no.point witholding them as he's not be ridden since injured and can't tell if there's any diffeence.
Thanks for the suggestion though x
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
Is there any chance he could go as a very light hack or a companion? Maybe a very light weight rider? You would have to be very careful who he went to but there are homes out there.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
No I won't pass him on. I need to know where he is and that he is being cared for and this type of horse ends up slipping through the net.
When he went on sales livery the guy thought he'd be best placed as a hunter as he knew a girl that had hunted him two seasons. But whilst in his care he went lame so came back to me which i was immensely relieved about as I'd been worried sick about where he was going and to whom.
He's a bit big for a companion animal sadly.
HashRouge
Well-Known Member
Temperament wise I think he'd be a bit feisty for a light hack, though admittedly I knew him when he was a 4/5 yr old.
Barton Bounty
Just simply loving life with Orbi 🥰
My mare was taken quite happily up here by the bloodbank and they knew she was only 11 years old with a sacroiliac injury.
Boulty
Well-Known Member
I saw a post on facebook today & thought of you & what you're going through Birker. Not quite sure if posting the direct link will work but will give it a try (technology & me don't always get on!) I'm not saying that it's a closed book that this is the case with your boy but if it is then basically you're not alone & not even the absolute professionals at this can help every single horse xxx
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Thank you for that. I understand where you are coming from and I hear you and I already know full well there is little chance of him coming good this time round but I have to try because I've just spent over £700 having his hocks and SI done and there was no point doing that without trying. The vet thinks its pychological (yet in the next breath says his back was sore) so its a bl**dy minefield to be honest.
But if he starts finding it a struggle again or gets sore then I will get the rider to stop obviously . Either way he won't be going anywhere until the Spring as I need something to focus on and to take me through the depressing winter months and I also don't want to lose my stable.
I'd like to send him to the blood bank but if I can't get a slot I will have run out of choices as I honestly can't afford to have two horses.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
The horse has had treatment for all four legs, his back, his SI joint and his neck (?), is suspected of PSD and the vet still says it's psychological? I despair for the poor horses in the care of these vets!
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Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Yes I get what you are saying completely. But he said that there are horses that you can treat to that you are 100% sure they are pain free and then they still play up so that was what he was suggesting might be the case with Lari as he's seen it with other horses.
For clarity he's had his neck x-rayed when he pulled back with me and set off what we think was his existing SI prior to me owning him. He showed arthritic changes in the neck which may or may not be relevant but were certainly there prior to me buying him despite my vet at PRACTICE ONE'S best effort to convince me the changes had occurred in 11 days.
PRACTICE TWO found KS in his back which may or may not have been relevant. This was prior to me purchasing him. His back has been medicated twice. His SI has been medicated twice, and his coffin joints once, arthritic changes prior to me owning him. He hasn't had treatment on any legs other than his hocks medicating twice. He's had a lot of remedial style farriery for his split in his hoof caused prior to me owning him.
The vet strongly thinks he has PSD and this was prior to me owning him. We haven't gone down the investigative route because to be perfectly fair to the vet, when he suggested doing this and if positive having the operation back in April I was sending him to sales livery (with disclosure) and didn't want to pursue a potential operation.
I still can't believe I can't get any comeback on the sale of this horse YCBM but vet one didn't want to know when I suggested that I hadn't been responsible for causing his SI and hind limb lameness. This was before we knew anything about all the other issues that only came to light with vet two.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
But he can't ever be 100% sure that a horse is pain free and personally I couldn't continue to use a vet who said they could.
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Pearlsacarolsinger
Up in the clouds
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Well its rather a moot point now. He's had all the medical intervention he will be having, my insurance is due for renewal in 10 days time so nothing will be covered after that and my private funds are all but exhausted.