Update on medial suspensory branch injury N/H

Birker2020

Birker2020

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I had the vet out for Baileys monthly reassessment yesterday (well six weeks but who's counting?). Was going to take him myself and save the call out as I'm not insured for the leg, but the winds were awful so I felt it was too dangerous and he kindly changed the appointment time a little and came out to me. He was a different vet from my usual one as the other is on holiday and I was also wanting a fresh pair of eyes, not because I doubt my vet in anyway as he has been marvellous, but because of some of the opinions that had been voiced on this forum about me and my horse. He had read Bailey's notes extensively prior to coming out and felt all four legs. He asked me to trot him up twice and the vet was really pleased - he then flexion tested both hinds and I then trotted him up and he said he was marvellous considering it was only seven weeks ago since his injury and he was very suprised as he had been expecting him to be lame, even if only a little bit.

We then took him into the menage to lunge (I used the dually as the winds were howling and really strong) and my lovely horse remained in a nice trot, didn't bomb off which considering he hasn't trotted for seven weeks is totally amazing given the weather conditions! Watching him on the lunge was incredible, you couldn't tell anything had been wrong at all and he is at this time on half a sachet of bute a day and has been for a fortnight on Good Friday.

The vet said I was fine to start trot work with him in the school or whilst out hacking. When we were back in the stable I aired some of the comments off this forum and put the comments to him.

He said that having his hocks fused wouldn't make any difference to him getting suspensory branch injuries.
He said that two suspensory branch injuries in four years would be considered a lot if all I did was hack my horse, and then there would be underlying issues which would possibly contribute to this but the most common injury of horses is suspensory branch, even more common in horses that showjump.
When I described what I did with Bailey he says there is no indication that I have miss-managed the horse in any way.
He said that there was absoulutely no need to consider euthanasia or retirement and was amazed that people on a forum should comment on an animal that they have never even seen or know any history of.
He said that if all goes well at my next check up in a month I can hopefully start cantering work and lead onto jumping again.
He said his shoeing was excellent (he had been shod that day as it happens) and I confirmed that xrays of his front feet the year before last had shown that my farrier had balanced his feet exceptionally well.
Prognosis for reoccurence 40% as was the same for the near fore suspensory lateral branch which he actually had a feel of and said was doing really well.
He said I didn't need to bandage anymore and that the icevibe boots sounded like a good idea.

I just wanted to put this on the forum as I feel like I have in some way justified myself by trusting my vet, my physio, my yard owner, the whole 'team' that have and continue to help me. We will never set the world on fire, but that was never the intention. I just want to love my horse, enjoy him with the time we have left, and to have some fun.

Having a different vet look at my horse has given me reassurance that I am doing the right thing, and that my horse in happy, healthy and content and that is good enough for me.

I also had the saddle fitter and had my saddle reflocked an hour before the vet, so we are good to go! :)
 
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What no more accusations, opinons, recommendations to pts/retire, tell me how I 'missmanage' my horse, no more unkind words of any sort (that are attempted to be dressed up as 'advice'???)

Oh good, are we done now then?
 
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Applecart; Sorry that people ,who as your vet has said, suggest retirement or more when not knowing or seeing your horseI have 2 horses in my yard that have done ligament injuries. One is a little Arab mare that did one 15 years ago and now at the age of 25 she is about to start another Endurance season including doing a couple of races. The second is a 19 year old Arab gelding ,again an Endurance horse and he has done both hinds and one he tweaked twice. He is sound and acts like an youngster.

How long ago did your horse do his injury. My ideas on any ligament / Tendon injury is slowly slowly catch a monkey" The longer you do a slow built up the better result.
 
paulineh said:
Applecart; Sorry that people ,who as your vet has said, suggest retirement or more when not knowing or seeing your horseI have 2 horses in my yard that have done ligament injuries. One is a little Arab mare that did one 15 years ago and now at the age of 25 she is about to start another Endurance season including doing a couple of races. The second is a 19 year old Arab gelding ,again an Endurance horse and he has done both hinds and one he tweaked twice. He is sound and acts like an youngster.

How long ago did your horse do his injury. My ideas on any ligament / Tendon injury is slowly slowly catch a monkey" The longer you do a slow built up the better result.
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Hi thanks for your kind comments guys x

Paulineh - he did the near fore in June 2011 and retweaked it badly in June 2013 getting stuck in a wheelbarrow and had another slow build up again over a period of six or months from recollection, with PRP and fusion with ethanol in the hocks (to prevent overloading the front end).. this culminated in jumping the following January/Feb time competitively. Before that he was doing road work, gradually increasing the amount of time, ‘training’ the ligaments/tendons by working on different surfaces and increasing the amount of time trotting, then cantering. We started doing little cross poles, moved on to small grids and by June 2014 were jumping 3ft 6 2nd phase jump offs (only one or two as have not got much confidence).
Then he did the other tendon in Feb this year around about the 7th Feb (from recollection). He was nearly a week before I could get him to the vet (during this time he was sometimes lame sometimes looked sound). He is now 6 weeks into rehab. The immediate ice therapy and the fact that I stopped riding him before taking him to the vets really helped, as did taking him down to the ford which was running very deep at the time.
Both times it was a slight sprain of the branches, not the actual ligaments perse. The wheelbarrow accident was horrendous and I was incredibly lucky to bring him back from that but as I say the PRP really helped. He was lucky to not break a leg that day, so the tweak was 'like being let off lightly'.
 
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Hi Applecart14 You seemed to be getting along well. I personally would not be considering cantering him for at least another month let alone doing any jumping. Long slow work is going to give you the best chance of him coming right for the future.

I too would not be doing trotting in the school as the strain of constant turns will not help. I would do this work out and about.

If you would like me to email you my Fittening / Rehab I will do Pm me if you do. . My mare is doing 80k Endurance race rides (And winning) at the age of 25 yrs old.
 
paulineh said:
Hi Applecart14 You seemed to be getting along well. I personally would not be considering cantering him for at least another month let alone doing any jumping. Long slow work is going to give you the best chance of him coming right for the future.

I too would not be doing trotting in the school as the strain of constant turns will not help. I would do this work out and about.

If you would like me to email you my Fittening / Rehab I will do Pm me if you do. . My mare is doing 80k Endurance race rides (And winning) at the age of 25 yrs old.
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Hi Pauline. If you read my original post it says "he (the vet) said that if all goes well at my next check up in a MONTH I can hopefully start cantering work and lead onto jumping again."

So for at least the next four weeks (but probably five or six) I will only be trotting him. It will start with long straight lines of the school. Short bursts of trot up hill or on level ground whilst out hacking (not keen on trotting on roads for long anyway - never have done). Its important to ride on a variety of surfaces so my vet says. Circles will come later, and then after a few weeks if all is going well I can start lateral work again. I've already rehabbed him sucessfully twice on his near fore (where 60% of the horses weight goes) and will use the same template for the hind leg.

I do not think I will even contemplate jumping ANYTHING until around June but will use my common sense with this. And when he goes out competing he will do the same as with the previous suspensory branch injury - start with a clear round and a 2ft3" class, for two outings, then a 2ft3" and 2ft 6" class for four outings, then a 2ft 6" and 2ft 9" class going forwards. Dressage may be a bit of a longer timescale due to the circles, etc.

Last night I took him in the school for twenty mins, (as I have been doing twice a week) and last night I did five mins stretching in walk, ten minutes in normal walk, and 4 3/4 lengths of the school (stopped before the bends onto the short sides). The last time my YO was watching and said he was 'sound as a pound'.

This is my boy and was taken a long time ago now, but you can see his build - its quite hard to keep the weight off as he is a good doer. The second photo was taken in the time following his first injury and the accident with the wheelbarrow (it was actually the week before the accident).
The other photos were taken during the end of his last rehab period June 2013-Feb 2014 following his wheelbarrow injury:
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Wow, I missed your original thread OP but from the initial post here sounds like you had a rough ride.
Glad it's going so well and good luck to you and your boy in the future.
 
applecart14 said:
What no more accusations, opinons, recommendations to pts/retire, tell me how I 'missmanage' my horse, no more unkind words of any sort (that are attempted to be dressed up as 'advice'???)

Oh good, are we done now then?
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:D

Congratulations on his recovery, and I hope you have many more years together :)
 
Thank you MuddyTB and Arizahn. Shame those people who gave me such a rough ride can't come on here and say 'fair play' and 'hope it works out for you'. They are conspicous by their very absence. I had at one point even been accused of lying about what the vet had said in his report and discharge notes and some of the posters on here actually went as far as to say that the vet would have said different to what I was saying on here, had they been stood next to my vet at the time!

Where to people get off on making others lives a misery telling them to PTS their horse and the like when they don't even know the horse or the horses history. Its beyond me. Like my vet said it is a form of cyber bullying and people hind behind a user name and wouldn't dream of saying these things to your face 'in real life'.
 
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applecart14 said:
What no more accusations, opinons, recommendations to pts/retire, tell me how I 'missmanage' my horse, no more unkind words of any sort (that are attempted to be dressed up as 'advice'???)
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Nope. Because its really dull getting one's words twisted, being accused of bullying, and getting unpleasant PM's from someone, when you've actually tried quite hard to be constructive. Just because someone's opinion isn't your opinion doesn't make them a bully.
 
I'm still amazed that he is working, and now trotting and soon to be cantering six weeks after injury that our mare had 6 months off for and probably 12 months before cantering. I guess they must be very different but that too was a branch strain without any major associated lameness.

I guess anyone is able to look back through old threads if they wish to if they want to see why opinions perhaps differed. I don't say anything on here that I wouldn't say in RL to someone.

For instance I think it odd that someone thinks legs are ok to do show jumping and not dressage. Is the prognosis for reoccurence if in full work? 40% seems high to me.
 
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applecart14 said:
Where to people get off on making others lives a misery telling them to PTS their horse and the like when they don't even know the horse or the horses history. Its beyond me. Like my vet said it is a form of cyber bullying and people hind behind a user name and wouldn't dream of saying these things to your face 'in real life'.
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Every single thing I have written to you on here I would say to your face. I am not hiding behind a username - I am pretty identifiable - but, like Auslander, I am pig sick of being accused of being a bully. I have always said that I hope Bailey comes and remains sound for you - but I still don't agree with your management. I am perfectly prepared to agree to disagree - it seems you are not. Just to be clear, no matter how many accusatory and inflammatory comments you chuck about regarding those who disagree with you (including me), I will not be responding to another thread about Bailey's lameness issues.

P
 
ester said:
I'm still amazed that he is working, and now trotting and soon to be cantering six weeks after injury that our mare had 6 months off for and probably 12 months before cantering. I guess they must be very different but that too was a branch strain without any major associated lameness.

I guess anyone is able to look back through old threads if they wish to if they want to see why opinions perhaps differed. I don't say anything on here that I wouldn't say in RL to someone.

For instance I think it odd that someone thinks legs are ok to do show jumping and not dressage. Is the prognosis for reoccurence if in full work? 40% seems high to me.
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That is why her horse has done it again twice, Even if it was a wheelbarrow , to me it meant that there was a weak point somewhere. Also the horse is on BUTE (Even though it is only 1/2 a day. this can and will mask any discomfort.

I am one who if a vet says "Take a month before you trot them" I take two months. The proof is in the pudding with my own mare Who did her Suspensory at 10 yeas old and now at 25 she is still competing and winning 80k (50 miles) rides.

Those of us who would like to help have indeed got shouted down. I hope her horse IS fine and does not do it again or even more WORSE next time.
 
Glad your horse in on the mend,
Work with your vet, he knows your horse better than anyone, Hope he continues to improve and you get back to doing what you love to do :)
 
Oh I missed that he was still on bute.

Fwiw we did follow vet to the letter. The mare walked out in hand a bit from day one and 15 months later hasn't seen a school. She is 15 and might come back to do more but we'll see in time. Someone down the road from us had a similar injury with her SJer while jumping. I was amazed how quickly she brought him back given that we share the same vet but am not sure she was actually following instructions and he broke down again within the year.

Most people on this forum do actually try to help others! I certainly do on anything I have experience of even if I do get a bit ranty on worming and false science ones ;) but some people take other's opinions differently to others. I'm not then sure why they then post as comments/advice/opinion then seems to only serve to upset.
 
I do not think, for one moment, anyone on this forum wishes Bailey anything except full recovery. If you document, on a public forum, an unusual and controversial rehab programme, you'd be naive not to expect this to be pointed out by people who have experienced the same injury with their own horse!

If people were arguing the other way (ie get back out competing ASAP and stuff what the vet says) you might have a point.
 
I recall suggesting on a previous post that if you can't accept the comments of other forum members perhaps you would be better off not posting & you agreed. Yet here were are 2/3 weeks later & a long post doing exactly what you said you weren't going to do anymore. So I can only conclude from this and the second comment you made that you deliberately like to antagonise.

And we all know that in a few months time there will be another post about Baileys latest injury and so the saga will continue.
 
Thanks for the small minded petty person who contacted H&H admin about my photos so that I received an infraction. The fact that I own the photos outright obviously wasn't considered by this mean person that attempted to get me into trouble with the administrators.

Very kind of you, but then this is what I have come to expect and just proves that what I am saying about the unkind people on this forum that try and cause as much problems for me and my horse as possible by their petty mindness and unkindness.

This forum has changed so much over the years....sadly for the worse.
So thanks for the infraction and all the other infractions that I have received from these sad, sad clique of people that have it in for me personally. Oh, and I've blocked most of you from my FB page as you are busy trolling that too. :) :) :)
 
KautoStar1 said:
I recall suggesting on a previous post that if you can't accept the comments of other forum members perhaps you would be better off not posting & you agreed. Yet here were are 2/3 weeks later & a long post doing exactly what you said you weren't going to do anymore. So I can only conclude from this and the second comment you made that you deliberately like to antagonise.

And we all know that in a few months time there will be another post about Baileys latest injury and so the saga will continue.
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No I am not deliberately antagonising at all. I was for those of you who were saying that I was responsible for my horses injury, that I didn't manage him correctly, and that he should be pts/retired etc, etc. and to try and explain to you that the vet had said that you were talking nonsense, that I hadn't mismanaged my horse, that he certainly shouldn't be pts and that the injury he had sustained was a common injury which happens with horses that jump.

So its okay for you to say things which are total rubbish/unkind and unnescessary but if I retaliate and try to explain that you are wrong and the vet has stated that, you don't like it.

And that when I post about my horses injury it is done in an effort to help others that might be going through the same thing. I am sure there are many people (you included) that have injured horses at one time or another, its a common occurence with horses!! You choose not to put on the forum about your horses particular injury - that is your choice. My choice is to talk about it. Its not a saga. It is the whole point of the forum, to educate and help other people....or so I thought.

Thank you for those wishing Bailey well. It means an awful lot. x
 
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Zero00000 said:
Glad your horse in on the mend,
Work with your vet, he knows your horse better than anyone, Hope he continues to improve and you get back to doing what you love to do :)
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Thank you for the common sense you show. The vet was totally shocked and amazed that people who don't even know Bailey or his history can tell me to put him to sleep! Thank God I haven't listened to them!
 
applecart14 said:
And that when I post about my horses injury it is done in an effort to help others that might be going through the same thing.
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and I think some of the responses have just been that those with similar injuries might be looking at a much longer rehabilitation period than that you have quoted for the same injury on 'paper'.
 
I do truly wish you and Bailey well - everyone on here who loves horses would do the same. it sounds like he is making a good recovery from this injury.
I am an extremely cautious person though where horses are concerned, and if I was given the odds of 40% reoccurrance I think I'd be changing my expectations of my horse. Mine did a check ligament 12 months ago and is now schooling, hacking on good ground and turned out properly again, I will never jump or gallop her again as she is too precious. I was never given odds as pessimistic as that :/

That said, I do truly hope he recovers well and you have many happy years together.
 
I'm glad someone else thought the 40% was high, I'm not sure if you clarified if that was if returned to full work OP?
 
ester said:
I'm glad someone else thought the 40% was high, I'm not sure if you clarified if that was if returned to full work OP?
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Yes it was 40% chance of reoccurence with a full return to the work load previously which was the same for the near fore which the vet is saying is doing remarkably well nearly 22 months on from the wheelbarrow accident (from recollection) and nearly four years on from the original injury. Been out competing practically every weekend dressage/sj and fun rides for months before slowing down last July/Aug to about every third week due to lack of finaces and suitable events. But don't forget we are only jumping two classes -usually 2ft 6 and a 2ft 9 class and I don't motor him around like a looney. He only gets placed because he's careful, not because he's fast! :) I always warm him up well, I bandage him to jump, do one grid work a week at home (and do a grid about four times total) and ice him with instant ice packs after every class. I only ever jump one warm up fence too so I minimise the amount I jump.

All ligament/tendon injuries have the same percentage of reoccurence. The ligament is never as strong. But on the other side of the coin there is a 60% chance of it not reoccuring too! I hope it doesn't ever happen again but there is no indication that it will.

As I stated before the vet has said that suspensory branch injuries are very common in horses that jump and you can see this on all the web sites about suspensory branch injuries.

Prognosis is based on the site and severity of the injury = not all suspensory branch injuries are the same and vary from horse to horse. i.e slight sprain is different to a tear and is treated as such.
 
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I'm not sure they all have the percentage of recurrence? given that the sites and severities of original injuries vary?

I guess we are all different. 40% is too high for me so I guess I would be like millipops (saw your update millie she looked fab!) which is where we are with Cally really but with no expectation that either her or mum will want to bother with flat work much, in part because they have no arena atm anyway.
 
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