Urgent advice needed

[motherof2beasts!]

Hi,

I'm hoping someone can offer me some advice as I am at my wits end. I purchased a gelding in August 2020 and from the start I felt something was wrong due to his unpredictable ways, I had the vets out who started investigations. Sadly he was diagnosed with Spondylitis so severe that he can not be ridden again, his vertebrae have fused 9-11. Anyhow vet said it was clear he'd had a tough life and was "good for life" so I decided to keep him as a pet. He is 13 year old connie and is very cheeky natured. He has always been dominant within the herd and a bit grumpy to others although gets obsessive over certain horses, previously an elderly gelding who he wouldn't let the others near. However he has really upped the anti this week, a mare in adjacent field is in season and this has completely blown his brain. He is guarding the fence closest to where she is and charging at any others who approach, and im not talking even get close he will gallop if they come within 3 acres of him and his fence line. These attacks aren't like his usual dominant ways and are now really scary, like he want to kill them. He managed to break the fences last night , probably from charging the others into them. He is now out alone but is hypervigilant and angry and also seems thoroughly stressed and obsessive. He is already on rig calm (day 4 of this) and super so calm. I am currently waiting for the vets to call me back but wondered if anyone else has ever experienced something like this ?

 

[milliepops]

is he on any pain relief? is it possible that he is hurting and that's causing him to act in different ways?

 

[Sprig]

He sounds really stressed and unhappy. I would be talking to the vet about whether this is likely to be a recurring issue. If it is then I would consider pts if you can't change his living arrangements.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

is he on any pain relief? is it possible that he is hurting and that's causing him to act in different ways?

The vets have said he isn’t in pain unless ridden , I’m awaiting a call back today so will explore further.

 

[HeyMich]

He sounds like he's in pain and is running on adrenaline. It's not the way you'd want a retired horse to behave, and you have to think about his quality of life in the long-term. I'd be having a frank conversation with the vet if he doesn't settle soon. Good luck x

 

[motherof2beasts!]

He sounds really stressed and unhappy. I would be talking to the vet about whether this is likely to be a recurring issue. If it is then I would consider pts if you can't change his living arrangements.

Yes I am awaiting a call today , he was ok until the mare was in season , dominant yes but not dangerous. They aren’t in adjoining fields anymore but he can see her , he is now alone but that isn’t really a long term solution.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

He sounds like he's in pain and is running on adrenaline. It's not the way you'd want a retired horse to behave, and you have to think about his quality of life in the long-term. I'd be having a frank conversation with the vet if he doesn't settle soon. Good luck x

Thank you, last time they were out (2 weeks ago) they said he wasn't in pain unless ridden and should be comfortable living out, which he did appear to be until Saturday when he became an angry stallion, was hoping the Rig calm would help

 

[SEL]

I think the vets can blood test to see if there's anything untoward with his hormones. We had an elderly (mid 20s) TB at the yard who suddenly thought he was a stallion and got a course of regumate - never happened again thankfully.

If its not his hormones then I'd try pain relief to see whether there is something else underlying

 

[HeyMich]

Thank you, last time they were out (2 weeks ago) they said he wasn't in pain unless ridden and should be comfortable living out, which he did appear to be until Saturday when he became an angry stallion, was hoping the Rig calm would help

The pain might not be coming from the spine, it may be ulcers secondary to and brought on by the back pain, or as others have said, it could be hormonal. Either way, he doesn't sound like he's 100% happy, and isn't behaving like a happy, calm, settled horse.

Your vet should know how to spot signs of discomfort/pain. If they don't, and keep insisting he's ok, then I'd be asking another vet for a second opinion.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I would do a hormone check, and also consider some pain management. If he is in pain and/or stressed, the odds are decent that he has ulcers, so that is worth looking into as well.

I know a horse who is not quite right and obviously has some pain issues. On his "bad days" he's a total grump and a bit of an arse to other horses. On "good days" he's a pretty chill dude. So I definitely think pain (as for how much, I don't know) could be a cause here.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Thank you, last time they were out (2 weeks ago) they said he wasn't in pain unless ridden and should be comfortable living out, which he did appear to be until Saturday when he became an angry stallion, was hoping the Rig calm would help

A friend found that feeding alfalfa to her very late cut gelding, who had been used as a breeding stallion, calmed him down. Many mares react badly to the phytoestrogens and it had the opposite effect on him. Judging by the speed one of our mares reacted to alfalfa it might be worth starting him on it for a fairly easy 'quick fix'. I am not saying i will work like magic but it could make him calmer.

ETA, I find aloe vera juice soothes potential ulcer symptoms

 

[motherof2beasts!]

He had a full MOT bloods works , scoped, Xrays and ultrasounds in December 2020.

I think the vets can blood test to see if there's anything untoward with his hormones. We had an elderly (mid 20s) TB at the yard who suddenly thought he was a stallion and got a course of regumate - never happened again thankfully.

If its not his hormones then I'd try pain relief to see whether there is something else underlying

Yes im going to ask about a bute trial, he previously had one with no changes in behaviour but might be worth revisiting to see if there is a new pain. This makes me feel awful saying this but I am not in a position to throw loads of money on him, I brought him for 4.5k in August and have spent well over 3k on vets since plus another 1.5 on physio, osteo, back massage etc. I will try regumate and bute if suggested but I am dreading another big investigation in hospital as his insurance now has pretty much every exclusion going.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

A friend found that feeding alfalfa to her very late cut gelding, who had been used as a breeding stallion, calmed him down. Many mares react badly to the phytoestrogens and it had the opposite effect on him. Judging by the speed one of our mares reacted to alfalfa it might be worth starting him on it for a fairly easy 'quick fix'. I am not saying i will work like magic but it could make him calmer.

ETA, I find aloe vera juice soothes potential ulcer symptoms

Thank you, he is already fed for ulcers, he has alfalfa , pink mash, and baileys cubes and has a gut supplement alongside all his other supplements, my feed room is beginning to resemble a pharmacy.

 

[Sprig]

Don't feel bad about not wanting to do further investigations. If you do decide that pts would be best he wouldn't know anything about it and then at least you are 100% sure that he is not in pain any more.

 

[rosiesue]

Hi I dont often post but your post struck a chord...I just wonder if Alfalfa could be contributing to a tendency already there? I seem to remember reading somewhere it can heighten 'riggy' behaviour in susceptible individuals? I think I'm right in saying red clover can do the same? I am happy to stand corrected obviously. Just a thought. As stressed I may be way off the mark, unable to check it out at present..

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Hi I dont often post but your post struck a chord...I just wonder if Alfalfa could be contributing to a tendency already there? I seem to remember reading somewhere it can heighten 'riggy' behaviour in susceptible individuals? I think I'm right in saying red clover can do the same? I am happy to stand corrected obviously. Just a thought. As stressed I may be way off the mark, unable to check it out at present..

I have had extreme behaviour with alfalfa one of my Arabs is wild on it a completely different horse.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

I have had extreme behaviour with alfalfa one of my Arabs is wild on it a completely different horse.

Could try but he has been on Alfalfa since September and has only been extremely dominant and dangerous for 4 days.

 

[Birker2020]

The pain might not be coming from the spine,

If the horse has been holding himself stiffly to compensate for the pain in his back he could be suffering pain in another part of his body completely, I know my hips and legs are suffering due to my mobility and pain with my back.

 

[millikins]

I had something similar though not as bad. Our 22 year old connie who's not much interested in other horses but does prefer mares, became completely obsessed when we bought a young, very hormonal Dales mare, screaming, napping and threatening to buck or rear if separated from her. He'd never done anything like this in 14 years. I'm not a lot of help though, I think while daughter and I hummed and ha'd about what should we do, things settled down and they have a normal, fond relationship.

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

You've got a perfect storm here: out of work, spring grass, mare in season, a variety of possible pain sources. Maybe if you manage to sort at least one of these issues he'll calm down?

Some horses love a chilled out retirement- chuck them in a field, pull them out every 6 weeks for the farrier, no issues at all. Some horses will always need a strict routine and daily ground work to stop them going feral.

I don't know anything about spondylitis. Is there any chance he'd be fit to drive, or is there no chance of him working again in any capacity?

Lots of sympathy - it's horrible when you can see your horse is miserable and stressed and you can't seem to help them.

 

[Dexter]

Spondylosis has varying degrees of severity but is usually degenerative. so it is quite possible that he is in pain now. He sounds very unhappy either way and I would be considering PTS if no quick and easy solution could be found.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

You've got a perfect storm here: out of work, spring grass, mare in season, a variety of possible pain sources. Maybe if you manage to sort at least one of these issues he'll calm down?

Some horses love a chilled out retirement- chuck them in a field, pull them out every 6 weeks for the farrier, no issues at all. Some horses will always need a strict routine and daily ground work to stop them going feral.

I don't know anything about spondylitis. Is there any chance he'd be fit to drive, or is there no chance of him working again in any capacity?

Lots of sympathy - it's horrible when you can see your horse is miserable and stressed and you can't seem to help them.

I do bring him in twice a day and groom/pamper and do some stretches/tricks. He cant be driven as it would put a stain on his back sadly also he has osteoarthritis in his stifle too .

I don't know a huge amount about spondylitis either apart from it appears to be quite rare and he has new bone formation bridging on the bottom of his vertebra.

It is a really tricky situation as I have a real bond with him and he is usually very affectionate and cheeky but this venom towards others has made things very difficult and I have to think of the safety of others too. Previously he would do an ears back and occasional nip but mainly faces. This is full on galloping the others into fences, to the point the fence broke so for their safety, he is now alone. But what kind of life is that!

 

[motherof2beasts!]

Spondylosis has varying degrees of severity but is usually degenerative. so it is quite possible that he is in pain now. He sounds very unhappy either way and I would be considering PTS if no quick and easy solution could be found.

Do you know much about the condition it appears to be very rare and there is little reading about it, I know it is degenerative and that it causes new bone formation , has some similarities to kissing spine but isn't treatable.

 

[Frano]

Is he always like this with in season mares? Some geldings are a right pain with mares and act more like stallions. Possibly a rig? Thing it is more likely a mare in season causing the issue,not pain.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

Is he always like this with in season mares? Some geldings are a right pain with mares and act more like stallions. Possibly a rig? Thing it is more likely a mare in season causing the issue,not pain.

I don't know as he hasn't ever been near an in season mare before Sunday, he is quite stallion like always dominant and does weird things like digs up others Poop and goes on top of their poop! But never seen him close to an inseason mare before and it is bloody scary. He has torn through many rugs in past few days and is just calling out continually , which I could deal with if he wasn't being so bad with the others. He is the smallest out of the 4 geldings so was hoping 1 would put him in his place a bit but they are all terrified. I see many horse disagreements and grumbles but this is another level.

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

It sounds like you're doing everything you can to give this horse a good life. I hope the vet is able to help you, especially as you're clearly so fond of him (fond of the pony I mean, not the vet! I wouldn't like to presume a) the gender of your vet, or b) your feelings towards them.....)

I do bring him in twice a day and groom/pamper and do some stretches/tricks. He cant be driven as it would put a stain on his back sadly also he has osteoarthritis in his stifle too .

I don't know a huge amount about spondylitis either apart from it appears to be quite rare and he has new bone formation bridging on the bottom of his vertebra.

It is a really tricky situation as I have a real bond with him and he is usually very affectionate and cheeky but this venom towards others has made things very difficult and I have to think of the safety of others too. Previously he would do an ears back and occasional nip but mainly faces. This is full on galloping the others into fences, to the point the fence broke so for their safety, he is now alone. But what kind of life is that!

 

[Dexter]

Do you know much about the condition it appears to be very rare and there is little reading about it, I know it is degenerative and that it causes new bone formation , has some similarities to kissing spine but isn't treatable.

Only that I have it, so probably not much use! Its pretty painful though sadly.

 

[SEL]

Just wanted to add that although I've suggested further investigations I'm pretty sure in the position you're in the vet would be supportive of PTS. If it's all got too much and neither your sanity nor your pocket can take any more then have an open and honest chat with them.

I'm useless at taking my own advice with my own walking vet bill but I do know we can't fix them all sadly ?

 

[motherof2beasts!]

Just wanted to add that although I've suggested further investigations I'm pretty sure in the position you're in the vet would be supportive of PTS. If it's all got too much and neither your sanity nor your pocket can take any more then have an open and honest chat with them.

I'm useless at taking my own advice with my own walking vet bill but I do know we can't fix them all sadly ?

Makes me feel sick even thinking about it, so doubt I will but I just cant put him through another hospital stay , I wanted him to have a nice peaceful retirement but he is just having one thing after another. Since August he has spondyltys, severe ostea arthritis in back , Arthritis and injury in stifle, cough, bad stomach now this riggy behaviour. He isn't a good doer and needs 2 feeds a day, will not be stabled (very had to sedate him 3 times to get him in for xray) and now this riggy/dangerous behaviour. Oh and he has a hay allergy and soaking and steaming doesn't seem to work so on the horsehage. I just wish he could have a few months or even weeks without issues. All of my others (touch wood) haven't needed the vet or have rarely bar the yearly vaccination and health check, feel like I may aswell get my wages paid directly to the vet! But also I love him despite all his issues !

 

[[135546]]

No advice but he sounds like a very lucky boy to have an owner who loves him so much - hope you can get to the bottom of his current troubles/find a suitable solution for you both xx