Urgent advise needed!

marusya said:
It is urgent to me, as I cannot sleep for days and tried everything.
I cannot afford to pay for solicitor.
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When you next speak to the solicitor ask them about obtaining a decree for the debt.

A decree is a court judgment that the debtor is legally obliged to pay you £x. In order to win you will need to provide detailed evidence about the contract and the debt. Evidence such as invoices and previous payment history etc.

You may be able to use the small claims procedure which is cheaper than instructing a solicitor. But it requires the claimant to do a lot of the legal/administrative legwork in a field with which they are not familiar:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/engla..._e/law_taking_legal_action_e/small_claims.htm

You also have to show that you have taken steps to recover the debt yourself before resorting to litigation. Usually a recorded delivery letter setting out the facts and the legal claim sent to the defendant.

Once you have obtained the decree you can proceed to seek enforcement using a warrant of execution. This gives Bailiffs the right to seize some of the debtor's assets in order to settle the debt. This could include assets such as horses.

If you are struggling to afford a solicitor you should speak to CAB about this issue.

There are also free legal advice centres across England eg: http://lawworks.org.uk/clinics

Be aware that this procedure could be very time consuming and costly.
 
pony5 said:
OP could find themself in a worse position by taking well meaning but bad advice from strangers on a forum. Unfortunately a large number of people with no legal qualifications offer legal advice on here. In practical terms OP may find it easier to seek a solution outside of the legal process.
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Yes but they could also be pointed in the right direction to get advice, the right place to start.. Most people have suggested the BHS helpline or an equine solicitor.

And if someone left five horses for me to care for without any money I would be pretty stressed and in need of urgent advice myself.
 
Didnt see anyone advising the op to do things with first getting professional advice that in itself would be foolish in the extreme just that horses are sold to settle a debt and to advise op that it is an option to be discussed with a solicitor. A verbal contract it just as binding as a written one and if the money paid so far has gone through the books there is paperwork to prove they are on livery and not there as a favour
It happens at nearly every horse auction across the country so the auctioneers should know what paperwork is needed for it to go ahead just to get a different perspective
 
I am afraid that you need the advice of a specialist equine solicitor.
Details below:
Deborah Hargreaves
Edmondson Hall Solicitors and Sports Lawyers
25 Exeter Road
Newmarket
Suffolk
CB8 8AR
Tel: 01638 560556
Tel: 01638 564483
E: solicitors@edmondsonhall.com
E: ah@edmondsonhall.com
www.edmondsonhall.com/page/1r6ef/Home/partner.html
Wroyte an article on The Legal pitfalls of Buying and Selling Horses

Actons
Tel: 0115 91002200 Caroline Bowler

Mark Carter
White Bowker Solicitors
Tel: 01962 844440
www.wandb.co.uk
mark.carter@wandb.co.uk

Helen Niebuhr
Darbys Solicitors
52 New Inn Hall Street
Oxford
OX1 2QD
Tel: 01865 811 7000
01865 811712
Fax: 01865 811 777
www.equine-law.net
E: equine@darbys.co.uk

Jaqcui Fulton Equine Law
Tel: 0121 308 5915
jf@equinelawuk.co.uk
www.equinelawuk.co.uk

Hannah Campbell (Specialise in compensation cases)
Tel: 01446 794196
www.horsesolicitor.co.uk
info@horse solicitor

Elizabeth Simpson Senior Solicitor at law firm Andrew M Jackson
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk
enquiries@andrewjackson.co.uk

David Forbes or Belinda Walkinshaw
Pickworths Solicitors
6 Victoria Street
St Albans
Hertfordshire
AL1 3JB
01727 844511

Mark de-villamar Roberts
Langleys Solicitors Equine Law Group
Tel: 01904 683051
E: mark.Roberts@langleys.com
www.equinelawyers.co.uk

Elizabeth Simpson
Senior Solicitor
Andrew Jackson
Yorkshire
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk

Richmond Solicitors
13-15 High Street
Keynsham
Bristol
BS31 1DP
Tel: 0117 986 9555
Fax: 0117 986 8680
enquiries@richmonssolicitorsco.uk

Jacqui Fulton
Giselle Robinson Solicitors

Knights Solicitors
Tunbridge Wells
Tel: 01892 537311
www.knights-solicitors.co.uk
Work with GRC Commercial Bailiffs
Senior partner very good on equine matters

Horse Solicitor
Tel: 01446 794 196
info@horsesolicitor.co.uk
www.horsesolicitor.com

www.laytons.com

Mary Ann Reay Charles or Chris Shaw
Shaw and Co Solicitors
Equine Law Specialists
Tel: 0800 019 1248
info@shawandco.com
www.shawandco.com

Arnold Thomson
205 Watling Street West
Towcester
Northants
NN12 6BX
Tel: 01327 350266
Fax: 01327 353567
www.arnoldthomson.com
enquiries@arnoldthomson.com

Tozers www.tozers.co.uk

Eleanor Temple Barrister from Kings Chambers in Leeds
Tel: 0113 242 1123
www.kingschambers.com

Tracy Wright
Shergroup Security
Equine Enforcement
Section 106
Eviction Common Land
Tel: 0845 890 9200
07747 772 318

Andy Shaw
GRC Group
Commercial Baliffs
www.grcgroup.co.uk
Seizures are made using powers provided under Section 7 of the animals act 1971
 
In my country it is very easy to recoup costs from wayward non-paying livery clients. We only have to wait 14 days after the date monies are due to be able to invoke the Innkeepers Act which gives the horse owner 30 days to pay the outstanding bill. If they don't then YOs are at liberty to take the horses to public auction and sell. All money up to the livery bill and any associated costs of taking the horses to auction are taken from the amount made. Any money over that amount must go to the owner.

However in the UK it is not as simple as over here. To take a lien on horses you should really have a contract stating this. Without a contract you are on sticking ground. With a lien in place you can hold the horse until the outstanding money is paid. You cannot sell the horse unless you have stated a power of sale clause in your livery agreement. In your situation without a livery contract you would have to take the owner to small claims court to try to recoup your costs but I wouldn't hold out much hope of getting any money from them even if you do win. It's a real rubbish situation you are in. I've had this happen to me one time only in all the years I've owned yards. I played it by the book and did everything legally. When the owner received the registered letter informing them of the date of public auction they suddenly managed to find the money to pay me. I then gave them notice to remove their horses from my premises with immediate effect, which they did. However as I say, it's very easy to get rid of liveries over here for non-payment; the law is very much on our side over here, but it's not easy at all in the UK unfortunately.
 
This really isn't a big deal you need an abandonment notice saying if horses aren't removed in fourteen days then they will be sold to recoup losses. Date it, send it to her recorded delivery, put a copy on her stable door /field gate too, take photos then send horses to auction or sell. I'm sure you can download a copy off the red wings website
 
marusya said:
I recon I wouldn't get anywhere with this- in the end she'll gets what she wants, she'll use my field free of charge and leave when its suited her.
There is no law to it.
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There is though.
Contact a solicitor, you often get the first hour/phone advice free.
A friend recently had 4 horses dumped in a field on her livery yard, she stuck an abandonment notice to the fence and then they went to the sales. Job done.

What horses are they? Are they worth anything?

ETA there is absolutely definitely an inexpensive and legal way to sell horses to recoup unpaid livery bills, you just need to get a bit of legal advice to make sure you go about it in exactly the right way.
 
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Patterdale said:
There is though.
Contact a solicitor, you often get the first hour/phone advice free.
A friend recently had 4 horses dumped in a field on her livery yard, she stuck an abandonment notice to the fence and then they went to the sales. Job done.

What horses are they? Are they worth anything?

ETA there is absolutely definitely an inexpensive and legal way to sell horses to recoup unpaid livery bills, you just need to get a bit of legal advice to make sure you go about it in exactly the right way.
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The horses worth nothing, they are wild and never been ridden. I have sent her the abandonment notice on the 07/01/14 which I have download from red wing site, but like Ive said before the RSPCA said that they are not abandonment.
 
widget said:
This really isn't a big deal you need an abandonment notice saying if horses aren't removed in fourteen days then they will be sold to recoup losses. Date it, send it to her recorded delivery, put a copy on her stable door /field gate too, take photos then send horses to auction or sell. I'm sure you can download a copy off the red wings website
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I have sent her the abandonment notice on the 07/01/14 which I have download from red wing site, but like Ive said before the RSPCA said that they are not abandonment.
According to police I even have to avoid her now, if I see her on my land, so I have to put up with someone who is given me and my family verbal abuse on my land.
This is ridicules!
 
windand rain said:
Didnt see anyone advising the op to do things with first getting professional advice that in itself would be foolish in the extreme just that horses are sold to settle a debt and to advise op that it is an option to be discussed with a solicitor. A verbal contract it just as binding as a written one and if the money paid so far has gone through the books there is paperwork to prove they are on livery and not there as a favour
It happens at nearly every horse auction across the country so the auctioneers should know what paperwork is needed for it to go ahead just to get a different perspective
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unfortunately, there is no papers to prove how much she paid. No receipt was been given to her. She was "managed" by my old father in law, he is an old farmer and had no clue of how to run the livery. However he is very accurate, he was recording all payments in his dairy but I don't think it will be much help.
 
I've no useful suggestions other than I think I'd be contacting one of the specialist equine solicitors to try to sort it out, it will probably work out cheaper than to cover the costs of the horses long term. I hope you manage to get rid of her soon, she sounds a nightmare.
 
marusya said:
Ill pay for sol and get nothing back from her. She's unemployed - she claims all sorts of benefits. she is "disabled" if I take her to court she will be paying back something like £1 a month for the rest of her life and will be laughing at me.
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Still better financially than having the horses on your land until they die of old age. You have a duty of care to them, so would need to hay them and ensure they get veterinary attention.

Drop the welfare angle, the really isn't one.

The RSPCA are not equine solicitors, they cannot advise you on this.

Of course the BHS are not interested in your legal problem, they provide legal advice as a service members pay for and you are not paying.

I can only reiterate that you need to talk to a specialist equine solicitor.
 
marusya said:
I have sent her the abandonment notice on the 07/01/14 which I have download from red wing site, but like Ive said before the RSPCA said that they are not abandonment.
According to police I even have to avoid her now, if I see her on my land, so I have to put up with someone who is given me and my family verbal abuse on my land.
This is ridicules!
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The RSPCA are right, it isn't abandonment; that's something different and is an easier situation to deal with. Your owner is still coming to do her horses and that's where you have the problem. It is true also that you cannot stop her coming to do her horses even if they are on your land. As I said before, it's a rubbish situation you are in and I wish you well. Hopefully the owner is a bit dim and will believe that this abandonment notice you've sent to her means something and will remove her horses from your land, but I wouldn't hold out much hope.
 
OP a nightmare for you - I had similar but worse as not only had agreed £10 a week livery not been paid the ladies 5 horses were trashing my fencing (breaking post and rail!) so costing me more every day they were here is repairs.

Lots of sensible proper legal advice all of which is costly and time comsuming - most efficient would be to join BHS (only £60) and use their free legal helpline to give you advice on removing the horses - but it may not be the quick fix you are looking for.

In my situation I told the lady I would load up here horses and take them back to the field they were previously in before here and turn them out - very sorry as I was just making it someone elses problem but I'd really had enough. In the end the threat of me touching her 'babies' actually prompted her to turn up here with friends a lead them out the front gate - without a word to me. I would have followed through if she'd not removed them as the welfare of the horses wouldn't have been compromised being turned out somewhere else.

When she left I did try and warn the local community by posting some factual details on facebook - sadly it didn't get though and she ended up on another proper livery yard doing exactly the same - this was a 'friend' who came to me as a favour!!
 
I honestly can't say if i can believe what i am reading!? OP you have had plenty of advise i do not think this is a difficult situation at all it seems pretty simple: you need to
a) contact a equine solicitor and sort out the abandonemnt notice to re-coop her debts
b) pay for BHS membership and speak to there legal help line and sort the abandonment notice
and then after the time has passed if the horses are not gone and debt paid sell horses at acution to re-coop costs anything not covered by this then you need to do a small claims court thing on line.

Simples :D
 
Thank you all for your help, advise and support.
I have finnaly come to conclusion after talking to RSPCA, BHS and solis. today, Im gonna seeze them within next 2 weeks.
 
Patterdale said:
Why are you still talking to the RSPCA? It's nothing to do with them and they're not solicitors, you might as well ask the cat.

Hope you get it all sorted.
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Why? Becouse "I have duty of care" and i want to cover my back-this is why.
why should i pay for this rubbish solis. baillifs etc? i have not got a sparie cash.
i will get rid of the horses and then she can take me to the court if she can prove im in the wrong.
 
marusya said:
Why? Becouse "I have duty of care" and i want to cover my back-this is why.
why should i pay for this rubbish solis. baillifs etc? i have not got a sparie cash.
i will get rid of the horses and then she can take me to the court if she can prove im in the wrong.
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I really think this will prove to be a more costly and time consuming option than instructing an equine solicitor.

Love the cat line Patersdale.
 
The first place i had my horse had a similar problem..they were a nightmare.
He sent a registered letter informing her that if she did nt collect the horses by a certain time and date we would be tying them up in her front garden. I get what folk are syaing about solicitors and small claims but really...........as you have allready said the court will ask them to fill out a form and basicly allow them to choose how much they can afford to pay.Probably £1 a week.
In the case of the yo where i was they turned up and took three horses away before the stated time and date..might be worth a try!
 
luckyoldme said:
The first place i had my horse had a similar problem..they were a nightmare.
He sent a registered letter informing her that if she did nt collect the horses by a certain time and date we would be tying them up in her front garden. I get what folk are syaing about solicitors and small claims but really...........as you have allready said the court will ask them to fill out a form and basicly allow them to choose how much they can afford to pay.Probably £1 a week.
In the case of the yo where i was they turned up and took three horses away before the stated time and date..might be worth a try!
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Thnaks, I will try. I am not gonna let her win!
 
To the all previous comments re- solisitor, sorry but i dont believe in them and never will.
I Have been experienced dealing with them in the past. All they want is ur money, they dont give a monkeys about ur case, emotions of ur financial situation. I have represented myself in court before and I won the case and had double of what ive been promised by them. They are bullies and if you are get a "cheek" to disagree with them they are turning really nasty.
 
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