Urgent help required! Pls respond by 16 Dec 2011

[PingPongPony]

There is no prefect energy making method as someone already said. So far we've come up with : fossil fuels which produce loads of pollution and are not a good solution long term as theres not enough of it, nuclear powerstations which produce extremely radioactive waste which has to be stored in specially built rooms in special containers, despite all those measures being taken, theres still some radiation that gets out, the waste stays radioactive for thousands of years. and the third one is wind turbines, not extremely efficient hence we need a lot of them, BUT they do not produce radioactive waste or pollution, their minus is that they take up a lot of space (so do nuclear powerstations and if we were to make these the main energy making it would start to take up more and more space to build the buildings to store the waste) make a humming noise and aren't very pretty to some people (well neither are nuclear power stations or any other power station in that matter) and they're potentially dangerous to birds BUT so is the pollution created by fossil fuels. SO wind turbines seem least harmful to me, i'd rather listen to humming and look at a great big white thing than be potentially poisoned by pollution or exposed to radioactive waste.
Sorry, that turned into a bit of a rant, i just have very strong feelings about this whole thing, cannot believe that people would rather pollute the earth and expose it to radioactivity just because the wind farms are new and take a bit more time and effort! grrrrrr
In conclusion, i do not agree with you OP and sorry but will not sign your petition.
I think there should be more wind farms and i will offer my back garden if they want to use it for one of them, and my front garden if they want it.
And breathe.....

 

[FionaM12]

I'm all for nuclear power myself and wouldnt be put off living next to a plant.

I used to go out with a chap who was Director of Science for BNFL and even he wasn't exactly "all for nuclear power"! His point was that for all the concerns people have, it probably does less climate change damage than other methods, and produces more power.

However he strongly felt that people need to start using a tiny fraction of the energy they're using at present to avoid an environmental disaster. In some ways he was surprisingly "green".

 

[CorvusCorax]

They are EVERYWHERE in southern Spain, horses and cows, both of which are highly prized, do not bat an eyelid.

 

[newbie_nix]

There is no prefect energy making method as someone already said. So far we've come up with : fossil fuels which produce loads of pollution and are not a good solution long term as theres not enough of it, nuclear powerstations which produce extremely radioactive waste which has to be stored in specially built rooms in special containers, despite all those measures being taken, theres still some radiation that gets out, the waste stays radioactive for thousands of years. and the third one is wind turbines, not extremely efficient hence we need a lot of them, BUT they do not produce radioactive waste or pollution, their minus is that they take up a lot of space (so do nuclear powerstations and if we were to make these the main energy making it would start to take up more and more space to build the buildings to store the waste) make a humming noise and aren't very pretty to some people (well neither are nuclear power stations or any other power station in that matter) and they're potentially dangerous to birds BUT so is the pollution created by fossil fuels. SO wind turbines seem least harmful to me, i'd rather listen to humming and look at a great big white thing than be potentially poisoned by pollution or exposed to radioactive waste.
Sorry, that turned into a bit of a rant, i just have very strong feelings about this whole thing, cannot believe that people would rather pollute the earth and expose it to radioactivity just because the wind farms are new and take a bit more time and effort! grrrrrr
In conclusion, i do not agree with you OP and sorry but will not sign your petition.
I think there should be more wind farms and i will offer my back garden if they want to use it for one of them, and my front garden if they want it.
And breathe.....

Hear, hear! I regularly have a rant about such matters. I understand why people get concerned over wind farms and the like, and such debate is a good thing. But perspective is important. We all consume silly amounts of energy and with the human population still growing like 'yeast in a jar' (went to a sustainability event recently where this phrase was used and I thought it was quite apt!) and oil/gas running out, well I don't really see what else (other than nuclear) can be done. The best thing is to not consume energy in the first place.

Interesting you say you will give up your garden for one, we are looking at doing just that. Have bought a small farm and want to try and go off grid.

Need to do lots of research first to find the most efficient solution but the hope is to install a small wind turbine to supply our farm and house needs within the next couple of years.....

 

[dressagelove]

Hear, hear! I regularly have a rant about such matters. I understand why people get concerned over wind farms and the like, and such debate is a good thing. But perspective is important. We all consume silly amounts of energy and with the human population still growing like 'yeast in a jar' (went to a sustainability event recently where this phrase was used and I thought it was quite apt!) and oil/gas running out, well I don't really see what else (other than nuclear) can be done. The best thing is to not consume energy in the first place.

Interesting you say you will give up your garden for one, we are looking at doing just that. Have bought a small farm and want to try and go off grid.

Need to do lots of research first to find the most efficient solution but the hope is to install a small wind turbine to supply our farm and house needs within the next couple of years.....

Its so encouraging to read these replies. I feel very strongly about such matters, and am doing environmental management at uni, and feel that these matters are more important than any other that faces our race today, I usually feel that no one really cares, but gradually as people are becoming more aware, people seem to really care. its lovely to read all your caring replies!

 

[Monkers]

I have done extensive research into the efficiancy of onshore wind turbines, before this I supported wind farms and thought they were a great idea........

They are hopeless. In our part of the country they run at 15% efficiency on a good day.

They cost a fortune to manufacture and and are extremely polluting during the manufacturing process. Unfortunately much of this manufacture is in China, where the government don't give a toss about pollution and the effect it has on the local people, let alone the rest of the world.

They will never offset the CO2 used to make and install them during their 25 year life span. Each turbine uses thousands of tonnes of concrete in its base, giving off tonnes of C02.

If you see them turning during cold, still weather, then they are being powered by the national grid. They have to keep moving, or the mechanism is damaged if frozen solid.

They are nothing more than political posturing. The government have to meet renewable energy targets, and wind farms are the current flavour of the month. Land owners here are paid 16k PER YEAR PER TURBINE of your hard earned cash.

Next time you look at a wind turbine and feel all warm and fuzzy inside, just remember the cost to the tax payer and to the enviroment, because enviromentally friendly, they most certainly are not!

 

[cptrayes]

If you see them turning during cold, still weather, then they are being powered by the national grid. They have to keep moving, or the mechanism is damaged if frozen solid.

I am reasonably certain that this is nonsense. The one in my garden still works in spite of weeks of minus temperatures last winter and it does not turn when there is no wind.

The argument pages ago about cow milk yields is exactly the same one which was used to object to railway lines when they were first built

 

[Marydoll]

For all the negative things thrown up in your research, other researchers will refute it, that causes much confusion to the public, i personally dont feel there is definitive proof either way, but there is no doubt what we have at the moment is not sustainable

 

[Monkers]

I am reasonably certain that this is nonsense. The one in my garden still works in spite of weeks of minus temperatures last winter and it does not turn when there is no wind.

The argument pages ago about cow milk yields is exactly the same one which was used to object to railway lines when they were first built

I can assure you it isn't nonsense, but common practice. The wind farm near us consumed more electricity than it produced last November/ December, for exactly this reason. The mechanism inside also needs to be heated using electricity from the grid.

To be fair, I don't know how small garden turbines work, it may well be different. I am referring to turbines that are 125m high.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

I can assure you it isn't nonsense, but common practice. The wind farm near us consumed more electricity than it produced last November/ December, for exactly this reason. The mechanism inside also needs to be heated using electricity from the grid.

To be fair, I don't know how small garden turbines work, it may well be different. I am referring to turbines that are 125m high.

OH is an electronics design engineer for wind turbines and pretty much all your facts are complete misinformation. Check the sources of your research.

 

[PingPongPony]

Its so encouraging to read these replies. I feel very strongly about such matters, and am doing environmental management at uni, and feel that these matters are more important than any other that faces our race today, I usually feel that no one really cares, but gradually as people are becoming more aware, people seem to really care. its lovely to read all your caring replies!

I think you'll find that a lot of young people who are growing up with the wind farms and who are constantly talked at about the environment, these people will support the wind farms more, which in a way makes sense as we're the ones that will be around wind farms for longer. I'm 16 but feel very strongly about environmental issues, i try to think of the bigger picture not just the typical 'oh no it doesn't look pretty'. We all say we're horse lovers, well, if we keep burning the fossil fuels at this rate our lovely horses will be breathing in more pollution than clean air, surely that will affect their health and lifespan, it'll also affect our health and life span. I guess i'm also slightly selfish, my dad always says to me 'you gotta die of something so whats the point of a balanced diet and exercise, recycling and all the 'stuff' ' to which i reply ' well dad no offence but you're kinda getting old now so no you won't care as you probably won't be here as long as me, but guess what, i care as i will have to live in the mess left by the older generations that could not care less as they have to die of something'. Yes me and my dad argue a LOT about environmental and political issues, and everything else that happens to annoy me or him the point is, the wind farms may not be that efficient BUT every wind turbine no matter how inefficient WILL produce some energy even if its just about enough to power an ipod for 5 seconds HOWEVER this still means that that little bit of energy did not have to be made in any other way which would be more harmful even if it was only harmful to 1/20th of a flea, thats still saving at least 0.0001% of the overall outcome right? And as tesco says 'every little helps!'

 

[FionaM12]

I have done extensive research into the efficiancy of onshore wind turbines, before this I supported wind farms and thought they were a great idea........

The trouble with this is that without backing it up with published papers, as far as we know your "extensive research" could be anything between a PHD or looking it up on Google!

Whether or not what you say is true, the fact is that the OP is asking us to object purely on the grounds that it's next to a bridle path which is a different thing altogether.

 

[cptrayes]

I think you'll find that a lot of young people who are growing up with the wind farms and who are constantly talked at about the environment, these people will support the wind farms more, which in a way makes sense as we're the ones that will be around wind farms for longer. I'm 16 but feel very strongly about environmental issues, i try to think of the bigger picture not just the typical 'oh no it doesn't look pretty'. We all say we're horse lovers, well, if we keep burning the fossil fuels at this rate our lovely horses will be breathing in more pollution than clean air, surely that will affect their health and lifespan, it'll also affect our health and life span. I guess i'm also slightly selfish, my dad always says to me 'you gotta die of something so whats the point of a balanced diet and exercise, recycling and all the 'stuff' ' to which i reply ' well dad no offence but you're kinda getting old now so no you won't care as you probably won't be here as long as me, but guess what, i care as i will have to live in the mess left by the older generations that could not care less as they have to die of something'. Yes me and my dad argue a LOT about environmental and political issues, and everything else that happens to annoy me or him the point is, the wind farms may not be that efficient BUT every wind turbine no matter how inefficient WILL produce some energy even if its just about enough to power an ipod for 5 seconds HOWEVER this still means that that little bit of energy did not have to be made in any other way which would be more harmful even if it was only harmful to 1/20th of a flea, thats still saving at least 0.0001% of the overall outcome right? And as tesco says 'every little helps!'

Please don't take this as patronising, but I think this is an incredible post for a 16 year old. You make me fear less for my old age, knowing there are youngsters like you coming up.

 

[newbie_nix]

Please don't take this as patronising, but I think this is an incredible post for a 16 year old. You make me fear less for my old age, knowing there are youngsters like you coming up.

I was just thinking the same thing. But that probably makes me guilty of ageism or something. Regardless, please take it as a compliment

 

[PingPongPony]

Please don't take this as patronising, but I think this is an incredible post for a 16 year old. You make me fear less for my old age, knowing there are youngsters like you coming up.

I was just thinking the same thing. But that probably makes me guilty of ageism. Regardless, please take it as a compliment

Thank you, i have been told a lot that i'm more grown up than most for my age thou I guess thats why i get on with adults better

 

[newbie_nix]

The trouble with this is that without backing it up with published papers, as far as we know your "extensive research" could be anything between a PHD or looking it up on Google!

Whether or not what you say is true, the fact is that the OP is asking us to object purely on the grounds that it's next to a bridle path which is a different thing altogether.

Very true. Its easy to get sidetracked by the broader, highly emotive issue but WRT to the original issue of proximity to bridle path, I am with the majority. I really don't think horses and riders have much to fear from wind turbines. Sorry O/P!

 

[Keimanp]

There are many things that are promoted as green and energy saving but in actual fact are generally worse depending on how you look at them.

The incandesant light bulb versus the filament. Whilst the Incandesant may only use 1/6th of the wattage of the equivalent filament the energy costs and the harmful materials used in the manufacture and disposal of the incandesant bulb make them no better and possibly worse when looked at the carbon footprint of each. The benefit is the reduced draw on the national grid, and as we are getting closer to not being able to meet demand we need to do what ever we can to reduce the use.

The toyota Prius, the battery used in this car and the materials sourced from around the world make the 'carbon footprint' of this car vastly larger than an equvialent petrol/diesel car and it is not much more fuel effecient (it's how you drive!).

The wind turbine If you look at the life cycle of a wind turbine from construction to production to retirment over the 25 year life span and assuming it is made from raw materials, then it is ineffcient and you would be better investing in a coal, gas or nuclear power station than constructing a large feild. However if you re-use the concrete base for the next generation of wind turbine, you recycle the wind turbines from one to the next and you process scrap metal for the initial turbine and process the gearbox oil for other uses then your production foot print is vastly better.

The reality is that there are benefits and drawbacks with each option and you can argue either way to say it is green or not, it all depends on what you look at and what you are wanting to prove.

We need oil, gas and coal for society to work. We process oil into plastic, tyres and tarmac to name a few things not just heating, power generation and fuel. We need to learn to be more concious and resourceful in how we use these resources and complement them with renewable sources to meet the requirements of modern man.

The solution is not to rule them out of society but to change the world! It is not here or capable to support just short of 7 billion people. The industrial revolution, sanitation and health care helped turn us into essentially parasites by our own definition!

Sorry for the waffle, being off topic (slightly) and if I've made mistakes with punctuation (I should be in bed, have to be up in a couple of hours!)

 

[AngieandBen]

I have a small wind turbine on my field It generates enough electricity for one light bulb However, the ponies never batted an eyelid at it when it went up, and they both graze around it, My field is high up and very windy, it goes like the clappers and makes a lovely whirring noise.

My husband is in the standby power industry and has been for over 20 years. If the people opposed to any sort of alternative power would like to suggest other resourses of electricity??. Otherwise we will have to go back to neuclear plants

The simple fact is we use too much energy, and we don't have any money !

 

[tinap]

We have 12 turbines just going up at the bottom of our field & tbh i'd rather have those than the god ugly & noisy power station we have in the village that is finally being demolished!

 

[FionaM12]

The simple fact is we use too much energy, and we don't have any money !

Agreed. Although, the subject of "money" will matter little if we continue to poison life on the planet. Money's just a recent invention for exchanging human goods and the damage we inflict on our environment will far outlife the concept of money.

 

[dressagelove]

I think you'll find that a lot of young people who are growing up with the wind farms and who are constantly talked at about the environment, these people will support the wind farms more, which in a way makes sense as we're the ones that will be around wind farms for longer. I'm 16 but feel very strongly about environmental issues, i try to think of the bigger picture not just the typical 'oh no it doesn't look pretty'. We all say we're horse lovers, well, if we keep burning the fossil fuels at this rate our lovely horses will be breathing in more pollution than clean air, surely that will affect their health and lifespan, it'll also affect our health and life span. I guess i'm also slightly selfish, my dad always says to me 'you gotta die of something so whats the point of a balanced diet and exercise, recycling and all the 'stuff' ' to which i reply ' well dad no offence but you're kinda getting old now so no you won't care as you probably won't be here as long as me, but guess what, i care as i will have to live in the mess left by the older generations that could not care less as they have to die of something'. Yes me and my dad argue a LOT about environmental and political issues, and everything else that happens to annoy me or him the point is, the wind farms may not be that efficient BUT every wind turbine no matter how inefficient WILL produce some energy even if its just about enough to power an ipod for 5 seconds HOWEVER this still means that that little bit of energy did not have to be made in any other way which would be more harmful even if it was only harmful to 1/20th of a flea, thats still saving at least 0.0001% of the overall outcome right? And as tesco says 'every little helps!'

Well it is refreshing to hear this I was very similar when I was younger. I got so upset once at the amount of rubbish on the pavement by a school that I made my mum take me with bin bags and rubber gloves to pick it all up I was a sad kid!
What are you interested in doing in the future? You sound like you should pursue this as a career! Lots of people now seem interested in saving the world, but very few will actually take steps to do anything about it.
As for the post about 'changing the world' yes, that is exactly what needs to happen, but it is easier said than done!
FWIW, things ARE happening, I am in my final year, and am doing tonnes of reading lately, to support my research project and some of the stuff I am reading is very encouraging. Despite the population rising, which is a separate issue really, emissions are gradually decreasing, etc, and the policies and regulations we have in place are starting to take affect. That doesn't mean we can all sit back and think it's sorted however, we still need a long term solution to our energy needs, and personally I don't think anything proposed so far is going to be suitable. I think something far more advanced is the answer, perhaps nuclear fusion?!

 

[powun]

Thank you for all the posts and interest people have shown to this thread.

Please don't misunderstand, I have no objection to wind turbines themselves. In this instance, my objection also lies with the size of the wind turbine in relation to the surrounding landscape and amenities. We have supported the building of smaller 15 metre wind turbines in the same area.

Thanks again for all the replies.

 

[Tapir]

A similar planning application where I ride my horse has just been turned down for the second time. There is already one turbine in the area, but much further away from the birdleways/roads, which many (but not all) horses are ok with. When the wind is up it is incredibly loud and sounds like an aeroplane is taking off! I hate riding near it although my mare doesn't bother.

The BHS have guidelines on how close the turbines should/shouldn't be to bridleways - I think it is 200m or three times the height of the turbines, whichever is the greater. This plus the fact that the applicant could not demonstrate that the turbines would not cause issues for horse riders was one of the main reasons that the planning application was turned down.

We have a huge wind farm on the moors nearby and I actually like those turbines as they are out of the way and on land that wasn't really being used for much other than grazing sheep anyway so I'm not totally against them.

 

[Monkers]

OH is an electronics design engineer for wind turbines and pretty much all your facts are complete misinformation. Check the sources of your research.

If I am wrong, I would be happy to read any published papers that disprove what I have said. I would be particularly interested to read about large turbines that do not USE electricity during cold weather or during start up!!

Perhaps your OH could elaborate a little?

 

[Holly Hocks]

I have no issues with them per se - they're not attractive, but as for affecting my horses, I wouldn't be bothered about them in that respect - they're almost so huge that I think horses think they're just planes or buildings.
However they are ineffective and could never ever produce enough energy for the country, or even one hundredth of this country.

And for those who are so concerned about us using all the electricity and energy sources, why not do your bit if you're that bothered? Either turn off all your electric permanently - including the computers you're currently on or go and live in a yurt and rub sticks and stones together for your heat and light. Simple, but don't preach to those of us who don't agree with you. We''ll keep Sellafield and you can keep your ineffective windmills!

 

[OWLIE185]

The construction stage is an issue as access roads, services, the base and the wind turbines have to be erected and where it is an area where horses are ridden it is essential that the planners are made aware of the presence of horse riders and the routes they use (roads and public rights of ways) so that if the planning permission is granted that this is conditional of certain pre-specified measures being taken so as to avoid any accidents involving horse and carridge drivers. This is why it is so important that riders comment on the planning application. The erection of wind turbine involves at least 4 bulky and heavy component parts being transported to the site by large and heavy vehicles and then erected.

As regards the operation of the wind turbine theer are some horses that are genuinely scared of them so to ensure they still have access to riding routes one should always ask for a new completely circular public right of way of byway status to be built at a distance of no less than 6 times the total height of the wind turbine as this will allow any horse or carraige driver to safely circumnavigate the wind turbine.

In icy weather when ice forms on the blades of the wind turbines the ice can be thrown off the moving blades and hit anyone in passing distance. No ta pleasant experience I can assure you.

 

[Merry Crisis]

I have no issues with them per se - they're not attractive, but as for affecting my horses, I wouldn't be bothered about them in that respect - they're almost so huge that I think horses think they're just planes or buildings.
However they are ineffective and could never ever produce enough energy for the country, or even one hundredth of this country.

And for those who are so concerned about us using all the electricity and energy sources, why not do your bit if you're that bothered? Either turn off all your electric permanently - including the computers you're currently on or go and live in a yurt and rub sticks and stones together for your heat and light. Simple, but don't preach to those of us who don't agree with you. We''ll keep Sellafield and you can keep your ineffective windmills!

Well said HH. I wonder how many of you eco souls drive 4x4s to tow your trailers.

 

[Holly Hocks]

Well said HH. I wonder how many of you eco souls drive 4x4s to tow your trailers.

Nah, they're so concerned with saving the planet they're walking or cycling everywhere don't you know! Anyway, it's cold in here - I'm off to turn the heating on again for a few hours......must be cold in those yurts....

 

[FionaM12]

Either turn off all your electric permanently - including the computers you're currently on or go and live in a yurt and rub sticks and stones together for your heat and light.

Well said HH. I wonder how many of you eco souls drive 4x4s to tow your trailers.

Little would be gained by just a few of us going to extremes, it's about everyone making sensible changes. I have a life-threatening health condition and have to have some heating etc, and occasional use of a car.

So, I live in a tiny two bedroomed house which I share with another person, and my daughter and I share the use of a Smartcar. I've been in a plane four times in my life.

Please don't assume we're all hypocrits.

 

[Holly Hocks]

Little would be gained by just a few of us going to extremes, it's about everyone making sensible changes. I have a life-threatening health condition and have to have some heating etc, and occasional use of a car.

So, I live in a tiny two bedroomed house which I share with another person, and my daughter and I share the use of a Smartcar. I've been in a plane four times in my life.

Please don't assume we're all hypocrits.

But that's the point! As Monkers (I think it was Monkers?) has said further up the thread, they are NOT energy efficient! They actually USE electricity for startup and are so expensive to build in the first place, where's the benefit?
Oh did you decide to move to that other yard?