Very sad advert

[Ladydragon]

The statement had a ? therefore not an assumption. And I agree fully not buying 1 filly won't end bad breeding, however, surely you admit a quick sale shows demand in the market? Surely you would agree that this is not want most want to see being in demand?

Meh, there are those who get that and those who don't ergo, the thin filly will likely sell before the plumper one. I accept my attempts to reason the process out don't compete with cute or heroic missions.

It was long winded, varied and by the time I got to the ? mark I was a tad hopping and missed it...

I think a sale could suggest demand or it could suggest a "managed to get rid" or goodness knows what to such idiots... I personally think the presumption that someone breeds to perceived demand isn't always right... Some people are just plain dumb - they do because they can - no more, no less... People are complex in what they deem to be 'profit'...

I do understand and actually support your perspective - I've already said this... But I won't condemn anyone who does get drawn in to 'helping' on an individual basis because I can't (as you appear to be doing) put any responsibility on their shoulders for the breeder's ongoing decision making process... He/She is the one who should be doing the right thing by their animal and negate the need for any 'sympathy purchase'... These people are no different to the parent who lets their kid go hungry so they can buy booze or the family who dumps their elderly relative at A&E so they can have a better Christmas... All 'profit' in some way and all complex creatures...

I do believe in the greater good, but it's not necessarily right or easy to ignore the needs of a single individual either...



Hmmm...apologies for the total waffle...

 

[Natalieshort]

Rhino, im sick of repeating myself just read my other comments again, your getting boring now. I don't have to explain myself to you or anybody! It is non of your business! And no it isn't "poor pony" it is in a home which she needs since her ORIGINAL owner wasnt a show home and that's where she needs to be. But yet again, non of your business but keep stalking my threads if you want you need to get out more! Il let the supportive people know what happens in a seperate thread!

 

[AMH]

I'm really torn on this.

I don't really buy the 'why help this one cos there are loads more out there' argument (surely helping one is better than not helping), or the 'buying this one will just encourage people' argument (cos I reckon they're going to do it anyway).

We have no way of knowing whether Natalie is able to offer this pony a happy, healthy home or not. I get Rhino's point about the previous posts, but it looks like (very much on face value) that that was a case of a pony being bought for a specific job, for which it turned out not to be suitable. I guess this would be slightly different, being a case of just offering the pony 'a way out' and having no expectations as regards health, temperament etc.

The thing that does worry me about the previous threads you posted, Rhino, is that the other pony is now for sale - I can only assume that she's for sale as unbroken and in no way suitable for a child to ride at present.

ETA - I am broadly supportive of such a charitable act, though, and really hope it works out for the best - it's nice that someone is prepared to do something rather than just wring their hands (which I'm not suggesting anyone here has done but you know what I mean!!)

 

[DEEDEE83]

The pony in question is her sisters lead rein pony sold on lies it seems. She never said it wasnt hers just that it might not be for all we know. However she underestimated how much people want dirt and to fling mud. I agree if the leadrein ponies purpose was for her baby sis, then its not suitable end of. It seems to me people want to find anything to pull a newby apart. We only know what we are told im sure natalie hasnt mentioned what she didnt need to but say she has moved on to a cheaper yard is happy and has time and money for this filly then I say huge pat on the back. For what its worth her parents are possibly financially responsible for sisters pony. I for one am looking forward to update later.

 

[Queenbee]

Let the animal suffer, because helping it would be bettering the bank account of the seller...








Are u serious?! Where is your compassion? Who on earth would make such a statement that we all should look the other way when we can do something to help a suffering animal... I understand the sentiment, it does grate on anyone giving money to people like the seller, but if I had it id pay anything I could to get a horse out of such a situation and give it a chance!

I'm up to my eyeballs in vets bills with ebony who looks about as malnourished as this filly at the moment, but count me in for a donation... Just say where to send it!

 

[Natalieshort]

The pony, was for sale because a dealer told me she was broken and bombproof for a child and very suitable! She isn't broken, and is NO WAY! Suitable for a child! I doubt even an experienced person could handle her! She is now really happy in the right hands! End of thread now for me!

 

[Lady La La]

but if I had it id pay anything I could to get a horse out of such a situation and give it a chance!

Which is what these bin end dealers reply upon. They keep their horses in such a way to deliberately evoke a knee jerk 'I must rescue it now' reaction from Joe Public. It's how they earn a living.
To purchase their ponies is to provide them with funds to buy yet more equines that they wont feed, in order to make you feel sorry for it and buy it, etc etc. And so the cycle continues.

The bigger picture may be harder to tackle, and less gratifying... but until people stop giving in to the knee jerk reactions that these dealers depend upon, it will go on and on and on and on

 

[Carefreegirl]

I think the problem here is Dragon dealers or whatever name they go by. Every week there seems to be a thread on here titled 'Look at this poor horse' and yes normally it's a weanling or a yearling broken to harness etc etc etc.
I'm now at the stage where I don't open the threads but seeing how this one has taken off I was intruiged. It would appear that none of the welfare charities are interested and I'm assuming they don't have passports or are microchipped ? It's a complete mockery of the law and just goes to prove what a pointless law it is - unless of course you are actually law abiding then god forbid you don't get caught flouting the law !
Hopefully Tilly will find a loving home be it with Natalie or someone else but we all know that next week and the week after and the week after there will be another thread exactly the same. For every Tilly there's another 100 waiting for their chance

 

[JFTDWS]

Yes it is my descision and i don't know why your all getting so involved?!

because you've posted it all very publically on an open forum full of people who care about welfare - of both the greater population and the individual.

makes me sick how anybody can do this though! they must think we are thick!

With respect, you are about to give him money for the filly. I think the point is somewhat proven that you are playing into his business model - and by your own definition "thick".

The filly is poor, yes. I don't see what makes her special though, there are too many ponies in similar situations. I certainly wouldn't be perpetuating this sort of breeding and dealing. Feel free to spend your own money as you please, but don't be under any allusions that this is some sort of "rescue" or you have any form of moral highground, regardless of your motives.

 

[milesjess]

Natalie - personally I'd stop replying as you really don't need to explain yourself to anyone, let people assume and conclude answers.

See the little filly, if you like her and buy her, good luck keep us posted, I for one would like to see her updates.

If you don't buy her, well done for actually giving a damn about the poor thing.

 

[Queenbee]

Lady la la, there will always be those kind of dealers, I'm fully aware of what they do, no matter if the purchaser stopped buying do you really think morons of that mentality would change how they treat their horses? No, because they don't see them as horses, to them horses will always be a meal ticket, whether through the sales or privately, they will never be well cared for... Saying that as purchasers we can make a difference is bull unfortunately. Which is why if I had the money and the land and saw a horse in need... I wouldn't think twice. I'm actually harder than it comes across, I've been to many sales, never purchased one horse, no matter how much it tugged at my heart strings, my view was that they would probably go to meat man looking that bad and that's not a bad outcome for them in that situation. I have however rescued privately 3 ponies and given them new starts, a better life, a loving home and then found them beautiful homes with children to love them and knowledgable owners. I made a loss on all of them... It was nothing to do with money, but it made me so happy to know they were safe and loved and out of such dire situations. Natalie, if you do buy this filly, then take all the advice you can give, diet, worming and handling in the early days will be crucial with this little one there are some on here who have a lot of experience in this type of thing, if you get her set a new thread up, to get all the advice and support you can. You may have fantastic support at your yard but you can't have too much info and support.

 

[Bobbly]

I'll just put my tin hat on.........Firstly, poor little creature, certainly looks older than claimed to me. Now, IMO only, what a strange cross to choose to breed? Bless her, her conformation is not good, a big Freisan head that will always be big on that frame, no shoulder and no bottom and that's not because she's poor, looks like she might be cow hocked and back at the knee too. Why do people breed such creatures? I applaud all those of you who are willing to take her on and I hope for your sakes she turns into the 'stunner' you all seem to think she will be. No doubt the guy has plenty of others just the same, regretfully I for one would have to walk away and leave it to the authorities if things were that bad there. Sorry.

 

[Rowreach]

because you've posted it all very publically on an open forum full of people who care about welfare - of both the greater population and the individual.



With respect, you are about to give him money for the filly. I think the point is somewhat proven that you are playing into his business model - and by your own definition "thick".

The filly is poor, yes. I don't see what makes her special though, there are too many ponies in similar situations. I certainly wouldn't be perpetuating this sort of breeding and dealing. Feel free to spend your own money as you please, but don't be under any allusions that this is some sort of "rescue" or you have any form of moral highground, regardless of your motives.

I totally agree. And would add that my experience locally (where I am actively involved in horse welfare) is that whereas a few years ago our local sales ring was filled to the brim with this type of horse, which always sold to the people who thought they were "rescuing" them, or else to someone who shoved them in another market the following week, in recent years with money so tight these buyers have disappeared, and the numbers of these horses being put up for sale has dwindled considerably. I've heard many a local farmer saying they no longer have horses because they can no longer sell them except to the "factory". If you provide a market for them, these guys will supply the product.

Much as I feel sorry for all the Tillys out there, I'm afraid emotive buying from this sort of dealer does nothing for horse welfare ime.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Which is what these bin end dealers reply upon. They keep their horses in such a way to deliberately evoke a knee jerk 'I must rescue it now' reaction from Joe Public. It's how they earn a living.
To purchase their ponies is to provide them with funds to buy yet more equines that they wont feed, in order to make you feel sorry for it and buy it, etc etc. And so the cycle continues.

The bigger picture may be harder to tackle, and less gratifying... but until people stop giving in to the knee jerk reactions that these dealers depend upon, it will go on and on and on and on

Agreed ^ ^

Please people, for this thread purpose, can we drop the word rescue?

This pony is advertised
The pony is for sale.
The pony is priced at double (or more!) than meat money.
It is certainly NOT a rescue by any means.

Good luck to the potential purchaser, I would like to hope she might have gleaned a little more knowledge in what she might be taking on, from previous posts here...........

 

[Goldenstar]

Agreed ^ ^

Please people, for this thread purpose, can we drop the word rescue?

This pony is advertised
The pony is for sale.
The pony is priced at double (or more!) than meat money.
It is certainly NOT a rescue by any means.

Good luck to the purchaser, I think she might have gleaned a little more knowledge in what she might be taking on, from previous posts here,

Exactly it's a pony for sale agreed its looks odd and I would be looking carefully at its age but it's the would you give a dehydrated man your water bottle or would ignore him while you built a well situation a poorly bred horse from a bottom end dealer has as much right of a chance in life as a one bred further up the ladder.
If someone wants to give a horse a nice life from a not brillant start it's up to them there's no black and white in tis situation .
And it's not a rescue .its a cheap pony for sale.

 

['S'teamed]

Get a grip....loads of ponies are weaned at 4 months...just go to Beaulieu Road sales in the autumn...

And believe me, she looks very well cared for up to some at places like Brecon, Carms and LLany...

It would do well if everyone ignored all of Bob, Richard and tom, dick or harry's Adverts....

No demand, no supply...

And no, it isn't "Rescue"...such an overused, emotive word.

 

[Moomin1]

....Alarm bells are ringing!!!!!!!

Natalie sounds extremely naive and young.

...Sigh....I remember a situation involving a highly dangerous mare who had never had handling. Locals all kept reporting her to the authorities because she was owned by a traveller and they felt sorry she never had any interaction etc etc (nothing wrong condition wise other than cracked hooves due to not being able to handle). However, one day the mare got an open wound which needed treating - so a vet tried, with owner's consent and payment, to dart the horse in order to treat it. The tranquilisers didn't work, so said horse was still running around. Local 'well to do' people decided to rally around between them (the very same people who had repeatedly fed this horse grass cuttings and potato peelings) and pay the dealer a large sum of money to 'rescue' her. They were advised, quite honestly, by the dealer and numerous other people, that this horse was a danger to handle and had injured a number of people. They of course believed they could do better than everyone else. Next week or so, a large article appeared in the paper ASKING for donations to help the buyers care for the horse as they said funds were too low.

A year later, said buyer tried catching the horse and got kicked in the head. Unfortunately resulting in severe brain damage. Authorities were called out to to shoot the horse.

 

[Wagtail]

....Alarm bells are ringing!!!!!!!

Natalie sounds extremely naive and young.

...Sigh....I remember a situation involving a highly dangerous mare who had never had handling. Locals all kept reporting her to the authorities because she was owned by a traveller and they felt sorry she never had any interaction etc etc (nothing wrong condition wise other than cracked hooves due to not being able to handle). However, one day the mare got an open wound which needed treating - so a vet tried, with owner's consent and payment, to dart the horse in order to treat it. The tranquilisers didn't work, so said horse was still running around. Local 'well to do' people decided to rally around between them (the very same people who had repeatedly fed this horse grass cuttings and potato peelings) and pay the dealer a large sum of money to 'rescue' her. They were advised, quite honestly, by the dealer and numerous other people, that this horse was a danger to handle and had injured a number of people. They of course believed they could do better than everyone else. Next week or so, a large article appeared in the paper ASKING for donations to help the buyers care for the horse as they said funds were too low.

A year later, said buyer tried catching the horse and got kicked in the head. Unfortunately resulting in severe brain damage. Authorities were called out to to shoot the horse.

Awful story!

However, hardly comparable to the little Tilly, surely.

 

[Moomin1]

Awful story!

However, hardly comparable to the little Tilly, surely.

Possibly not, however I wholeheartedly disagree with anyone who admits they don't have the experience, and then a few posts later when the hysteria gets going booking an appointment and going to potentially buy a youngster that will no doubt need an awful lot of money and handling. It is well meaning, just as it was in my above post, but has the potential to end in disaster. Reading through Rhino's posts Natalie seems to be a fairly spontaneous character - having brought the lead rein pony home for a surprise, and also slightly worrying that she said she didn't realise how small it was until they got it home. Seems like impulse buying. That one didn't last all that long until it was back up for sale.

I hope it works out anyway.

 

[Goldenstar]

....Alarm bells are ringing!!!!!!!

Natalie sounds extremely naive and young.

...Sigh....I remember a situation involving a highly dangerous mare who had never had handling. Locals all kept reporting her to the authorities because she was owned by a traveller and they felt sorry she never had any interaction etc etc (nothing wrong condition wise other than cracked hooves due to not being able to handle). However, one day the mare got an open wound which needed treating - so a vet tried, with owner's consent and payment, to dart the horse in order to treat it. The tranquilisers didn't work, so said horse was still running around. Local 'well to do' people decided to rally around between them (the very same people who had repeatedly fed this horse grass cuttings and potato peelings) and pay the dealer a large sum of money to 'rescue' her. They were advised, quite honestly, by the dealer and numerous other people, that this horse was a danger to handle and had injured a number of people. They of course believed they could do better than everyone else. Next week or so, a large article appeared in the paper ASKING for donations to help the buyers care for the horse as they said funds were too low.

A year later, said buyer tried catching the horse and got kicked in the head. Unfortunately resulting in severe brain damage. Authorities were called out to to shoot the horse.

Can't really see the what that tale has got to do with the sale of a foal/ yearling . I have no idea if Natalie is young but I don't think there's any reason to assume she has no common sense .

 

[Moomin1]

Can't really see the what that tale has got to do with the sale of a foal/ yearling . I have no idea if Natalie is young but I don't think there's any reason to assume she has no common sense .

The moral of the story being that these people, all be it well meaning, took on more than they could possibly deal with. Natalie has said she is inexperienced. I also as said above, find it odd that someone can buy a lead rein pony as a surprise for someone and only notice how small it was when it came home?

 

[Dolcé]

Mind boggles that's all.
Very sad for the pony and by the looks of it, it's about to get even sadder.

This ^^^^, think it says it all!

 

[Moomin1]

My mare has just turned 20 in January and ive only had her for 4 months. Ive noticed when im bringing her down from the field it seems like she trips up or forgets to pick her feet up, but people have noticed when im riding her and do a trot she doesn't pick her front left leg up properly and kind of hops on it, what is going on with her? We didn't really get on when i first got her because she was mistreated but just when i feel like we are bonding there is something wrong with her people on the yard think its called navicular or something, ive never heard of this before because im a complete novice as you can probably tell, what do you think is wrong with my mare? she is insured and the vet is coming out on wednesday to give her her jabs and do her teeth, do i mention it to them? what does it sound like to you? im worrying!
__________________
Millymoo<3

And this, from Natalie's recent thread she posted, is precisely why I feel she shouldn't be 'rescuing' any more horses. Spontaneous buyer muchly. She doesn't seem to recognise what lameness is, again the horse is a 'rescue' which she has only had 4 months, and she has never heard of navicular because she is a complete novice, and even more worrying she is questioning whether she should mention this lameness or 'navicular' to the vet?!

 

[hayinamanger]

[Content removed]

This came from the Dragon Driving site, do you think he is the skanky dregs? Mind you, I am not in my right mind.

 

[Goldenstar]

The moral of the story being that these people, all be it well meaning, took on more than they could possibly deal with. Natalie has said she is inexperienced. I also as said above, find it odd that someone can buy a lead rein pony as a surprise for someone and only notice how small it was when it came home?

Learning to handle a foal is not hard if she has friends who will help her with it . Its a bit much to think that she would not notice if it was a dangerous vicious foal we can't assume on here that people who may be inexperianced can't quickly wise up when they have to.
I don't know the lead rien story but so want if Natalie is caring for it well .
And for those who say this ponys story is going to get sadder why ?
Natalie says she has the financial resources to look after the pony, I hope if she inexperianced she will take advice and get help .
We were all inexperianced once even if our families taught us.
I was the first horsey one in our family and my first horse ( I had had ponies)
Was a mare Dad bought at a meat sale on a whim that he stopped at when passing when I was fourteen she took me to my first affiliated events and taught my boy friend ( now my husband to ride) and died with us three years after we got married yes it might be a disaster for Tilly but it might be her big chance to .

 

[Goldenstar]

My mare has just turned 20 in January and ive only had her for 4 months. Ive noticed when im bringing her down from the field it seems like she trips up or forgets to pick her feet up, but people have noticed when im riding her and do a trot she doesn't pick her front left leg up properly and kind of hops on it, what is going on with her? We didn't really get on when i first got her because she was mistreated but just when i feel like we are bonding there is something wrong with her people on the yard think its called navicular or something, ive never heard of this before because im a complete novice as you can probably tell, what do you think is wrong with my mare? she is insured and the vet is coming out on wednesday to give her her jabs and do her teeth, do i mention it to them? what does it sound like to you? im worrying!
__________________
Millymoo<3

And this, from Natalie's recent thread she posted, is precisely why I feel she shouldn't be 'rescuing' any more horses. Spontaneous buyer muchly. She doesn't seem to recognise what lameness is, again the horse is a 'rescue' which she has only had 4 months, and she has never heard of navicular because she is a complete novice, and even more worrying she is questioning whether she should mention this lameness or 'navicular' to the vet?!

Ok fair point but it's not up to us is it.

 

[Goldenstar]

This came from the Dragon Driving site, do you think he is the skanky dregs? Mind you, I am not in my right mind.

He's cracking .

 

[Moomin1]

Learning to handle a foal is not hard if she has friends who will help her with it . Its a bit much to think that she would not notice if it was a dangerous vicious foal we can't assume on here that people who may be inexperianced can't quickly wise up when they have to.
I don't know the lead rien story but so want if Natalie is caring for it well .
And for those who say this ponys story is going to get sadder why ?
Natalie says she has the financial resources to look after the pony, I hope if she inexperianced she will take advice and get help .
We were all inexperianced once even if our families taught us.
I was the first horsey one in our family and my first horse ( I had had ponies)
Was a mare Dad bought at a meat sale on a whim that he stopped at when passing when I was fourteen she took me to my first affiliated events and taught my boy friend ( now my husband to ride) and died with us three years after we got married yes it might be a disaster for Tilly but it might be her big chance to .

It may well be, and I certainly don't mean Natalie any offence, but she has admitted to being a COMPLETE novice on her posts - and you can see it a mile off - she has been pottering around on a lame horse wondering what it wrong with it and if she should mention it to the vet?! That is where it gets worrying people taking on horses which more than likely will need a lot of knowledge and experience to raise. People simply shouldn't have horses if they can't recognise basic ailments. Sorry, like I say this is just my opinion, and I think it's lovely Natalie is thinking of doing what she is doing but I disagree with it being a good thing.

 

[DH1]

My mare has just turned 20 in January and ive only had her for 4 months. Ive noticed when im bringing her down from the field it seems like she trips up or forgets to pick her feet up, but people have noticed when im riding her and do a trot she doesn't pick her front left leg up properly and kind of hops on it, what is going on with her? We didn't really get on when i first got her because she was mistreated but just when i feel like we are bonding there is something wrong with her people on the yard think its called navicular or something, ive never heard of this before because im a complete novice as you can probably tell, what do you think is wrong with my mare? she is insured and the vet is coming out on wednesday to give her her jabs and do her teeth, do i mention it to them? what does it sound like to you? im worrying!
__________________
Millymoo<3

And this, from Natalie's recent thread she posted, is precisely why I feel she shouldn't be 'rescuing' any more horses. Spontaneous buyer muchly. She doesn't seem to recognise what lameness is, again the horse is a 'rescue' which she has only had 4 months, and she has never heard of navicular because she is a complete novice, and even more worrying she is questioning whether she should mention this lameness or 'navicular' to the vet?!

I agree with your misgivings Moomin. I appreciate that all we have to go on regarding any poster on here, are previous posts and unfortunately they don't fill me with confidence in this case. I'm sure Natalie is a lovely girl, but good intentions won't be enough for this animal.

 

[milesjess]

'S'teamed I'm sorry but that's a load of rubbish! There are some cracking horses on there and a handful of poor horses... Biggest false statement ever!