Vet fees under review

[rara007]

That’s a shame. That’s about 1/3- 1/4 the cost of our options within a few hours. The equipment is very specialist as are the drugs involved in the anaesthetic, I don’t think the higher figure is unreasonable for work involved. But a sub 5k option would open it up more.

 

[blackcob]

After another trial by social media today, off the back of a particularly cruel and unfounded one last week, and the RCVS publishing this statement, I was asked today to prepare a practice statement about the CMA review and the harassment faced by our veterinary staff. I am very sad that it’s come to this. Also absolutely bricking it about sticking our head above the parapet, but my colleagues deserve to have their piece said.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The RCVS statement from yesterday . I’m so sorry for anyone working within the sector who has faced abusive and/or disrespectful clients.

RCVS responds to worrying spike in abuse of vet teams​

12 March 2024

We are very concerned to note that, since the publication of the CMA report into the vet sector earlier today, there has been a worrying spike in abusive behaviour and harassment by some animal owners towards vets, vet nurses and practice colleagues.

We respect the right of animal owners to express their opinions, but this can never justify or include the harassment and abuse of individual vets, vet nurses or their practice colleagues.

We understand that the Competition and Markets Authority’s findings, to which we responded earlier today, might cause some initial upset amongst veterinary clients, but we would strongly urge all animal owners not to vent their frustrations at their veterinary teams in this manner.

We respect the right of animal owners to express their opinions, but this can never justify or include the harassment and abuse of individual vets, vet nurses or their practice colleagues.

We would remind animal owners that the vast majority of vets and vet nurses are not responsible for business decisions within their practice environment, and that any concerns would be best directed either to practice owners or, better still, submitted as part of the CMA’s upcoming consultation.

We know that owners care deeply about their animals, and that vets and vet nurses are hugely committed to maintaining the health and welfare of animals across the UK, and supporting public health.

We feel it is important to recognise and thank vets and vet nurses for this commitment, especially in the face of current workforce shortages and increased animal ownership.

 

[Clodagh]

Society nowadays… what society.
I want a dog I can’t afford to treat its illness, let’s abuse the medical team.

 

[MurphysMinder]

The practice I use has put out a statement today, explaining things clearly re pricing of medication etc and telling people they can always ask for different options. They are independent and I think that makes a difference, I know from experience they give estimates before procedures and do their own ooh which is a huge bonus, thankfully they have had nothing but supportive comments so far.

 

[MurphysMinder]

After another trial by social media today, off the back of a particularly cruel and unfounded one last week, and the RCVS publishing this statement, I was asked today to prepare a practice statement about the CMA review and the harassment faced by our veterinary staff. I am very sad that it’s come to this. Also absolutely bricking it about sticking our head above the parapet, but my colleagues deserve to have their piece said.

I've just had a look at it, its a good statement hopefully your clients appreciate all the staff and realise that some things are out of your hands.

 

[druid]

A lot of the pricing issues in the UK stem from the lack of vets, use of locums and huge costs in covering locum fees. Brexit has made it so hard for vets from many other countries to work in the UK

 

[Clodagh]

A lot of the pricing issues in the UK stem from the lack of vets, use of locums and huge costs in covering locum fees. Brexit has made it so hard for vets from many other countries to work in the UK

I wonder if any correlation will ever be found between people who feel free to abuse their vets and people that voted for Brexit?

 

[Sandstone1]

No excuse for people taking it out on staff who in most cases have no say on fees anyway.

 

[SEL]

A lot of the pricing issues in the UK stem from the lack of vets, use of locums and huge costs in covering locum fees. Brexit has made it so hard for vets from many other countries to work in the UK

My old small animal practice in Birmingham has posted today saying just that. They're still independent and I think are feeling a bit bruised by the fact that the press isn't distinguishing between the independents and the private equity practices

 

[Cloball]

My small animal vets have a pet club which covers wormers, flea treatment, vaccs and a couple of other bits with a small monthly payment I worked out the yearly cost and it worked out much cheaper. I did joke to the emergency vet about the price of catheterising a cat and how hard can it be (I used to be a dab hand at tricky ones in people ), she looked quite shocked I probably shouldn't joke about these things without context.
My equine vet always lets me know if I can buy stuff cheaper elsewhere.

 

[Boulty]

So obv I work in the industry & I would definitely welcome more transparency re pricing although I don’t think every practice having to abide by the same “set fees” for certain procedures is the answer either. Just things being transparent & easy to understand for everyone (& maybe it being easier for new clients to access this info)

I think it will be interesting to see what if anything they want to do about current corporate business models as well / whether there’s any forced selling (although that could be awkward if the only entity with enough money to buy is another corporate!)

Don’t think they’ll do anything about meds prices as there just isn’t a way most practices can match the online pharmacies for many & various reasons. (Unless they want to standardise prescription charges I guess?)

Oh and whilst there are many wonderful independents out there that should be cherished and valued, being independent does not necessarily mean better and it doesn’t always automatically mean cheaper either. A lot of the corporates tend to enforce minimum standards so in theory standards of care should be fairly consistent across a group whereas independents will vary more depending on who is in charge and what they’re interested in. There’s pluses and minuses to this of course (as with most things in life).

I’m not a very corporate person and roll my eyes at a lot of it tbh but the occasional good idea does emerge from the daftness.

 

[PaulineW]

So today I enquired about the cost of Bravecto for my 2 chihuahuas. Online searches suggest around £19 per tablet. My vet is charging £39 each, or £20 per dog if I want a prescription, valid for one tablet only.

It’s so unfair. I said I’d make other arrangements as that’s too expensive, and they replied they were sorry the prescription was over my budget.

 

[druid]

So today I enquired about the cost of Bravecto for my 2 chihuahuas. Online searches suggest around £19 per tablet. My vet is charging £39 each, or £20 per dog if I want a prescription, valid for one tablet only.

It’s so unfair. I said I’d make other arrangements as that’s too expensive, and they replied they were sorry the prescription was over my budget.

The online pricing is often below the whole wholesale ex vat price your vet can buy at due to them having the ability to buy in huge bulk.

 

[Cortez]

The online pricing is often below the whole wholesale ex vat price your vet can buy at due to them having the ability to buy in huge bulk.

Why don't the vets buy from the online places too?

 

[PaulineW]

The online pricing is often below the whole wholesale ex vat price your vet can buy at due to them having the ability to buy in huge bulk.

This is a large vet practise in a rural area known for ticks, so it’s not like it’s a special order for one client, but I understand your point.

I don’t think it’s fair to charge two prescription fees.

 

[druid]

Why don't the vets buy from the online places too?

Not allowed, at least in Ireland. Very strict supply chain rules.

 

[sugarpony]

Why don't the vets buy from the online places too?

It’s illegal, they’re obligated to buy from licensed wholesalers or direct from drug companies

 

[sugarpony]

This is a large vet practise in a rural area known for ticks, so it’s not like it’s a special order for one client, but I understand your point.

I don’t think it’s fair to charge two prescription fees.

It’s still an economy of scale, an online company will still have far more buying power and will sell more produce than even a large practice

And a prescription can only be valid for one animal, so it’s got to be two prescriptions, hence two fees. I think that’s fair. Charging two prescription fees for two products for the SAME animal would be less fair, but I know of people that’s happened to

 

[meleeka]

It’s illegal, they’re obligated to buy from licensed wholesalers or direct from drug companies

My vet is part of CVS. There’s an online retailer who is also part of CVS with literally the same name! You’d think CVS would have an agreeement with the wholesaler for the whole group of companies, rather than each individual sourcing their own?

I get charged two prescription fees for the same pony who needs two medications. My small animal vet used to put them all on one when my dog was on multiple meds, so I think it’s company policy that’s changed, rather than the law.

 

[AmyMay]

I’ve just paid a vet bill for Daisy.

Two check ups. Blood tests. Anal gland expression. 2 x Nexgaurd - £275.

Very reasonable.

 

[quizzie]

Why don't the vets buy from the online places too?

Because it is illegal to buy from the online retailers without a prescription for a specified animal and owner….thus vets cannot purchase from them in advance to have on their dispensary shelf to dispense to their clients.

 

[Aru]

I wonder why vet fees are so much lower in other countries? Here (Ireland) small animal seems to be at least half of what you're all paying, and horse stuff even less. And no, it's not because vets are crap here.

Ireland is one of the few places in the world where only licensed vets are allowed to own and run a vet practice.
Last I checked there was big pushes to change that, so the corporates could buy in but I haven't followed up to see if that's happened yet.

 

[Aru]

I don’t suppose you can PM where is offering that? That’s exceptional value so would be useful to have as an option.

2500 is a pretty impressive price for a cataract surgery. I just paid 8700 AUD- roughly 4500 UK pounds for cataract surgery on two eyes at once. Doing one eye would have been 3/4 the same cost,not half. It's very much a high skill and equipment needed procedure with a lot of follow up.
Theres only a handful of practice's in Australia - all specialist clinics, that offer it as an option... I don't people appreciate how amazing it is, that cataract removal and replacement is even an option at all for an animals these days...

I do wonder if the NHS has also made it so people don't realise the sheer cost involved in the health care sector though.
The 100 percent mark up thing appears to have really surprised people.
Of course theres a markup. How do you think vets make a profit to run a hospital? pay for inventory,staff etc. Have all that fancy equipment thats become a normal standard of care now- xrays, ultrasounds, theatres with full anaestheic machines and monitoring systems etc. liability insurance, buildings etc.

Medicine has also advanced. Most of that advancement means more options for treatment and a higher overall standard of care is expected- surgeries and anaesthetics are a great example. instead of older version- injectable given to effect or just as a one off injection and work quickly..sometimes with a nurse to listen to heart and check patient through the procedure -A modern anesthetic protcol can have mulitple drugs involved. a premed is given, an iv cather is placed, an inducting agent is given via the iv cather to place an et tube, via the et tube an anesthetic machine is connected and an inhalent anaesthetic is used to maintain the anaesthetic.The amounts delivered are decided by the dedicated nurse who reading all the monitor equipment-blood pressure, sp02, canograph, ecg. and checking the patient then adjusting amounts as needed, the dog will get iv fluids, pain relief- sometimes mulitple types- the same as modern aneshetics at the human standard iin a a human hospital.

A vet clinic is usually a functional small stand alone hospital. Hospitals are expensive to run. Vet clinics are getting more and more expensive to run.
There are so many more drugs and treatment options now as well, and the clinics do tend to stock all of the basics for ease of treatment. Things have changed massively in the vet world when it comes to medical options and standards of care advancements, even in the 12 years since I graduated. The prices charged are not just profit. Vet clinics are also not allowed to buy from anything but the licensed wholesalers, the majority cannot buy in and store large volumes either. Any expired meds- often rarely used but important to have in stock drugs also get added into the cost of running the business etc etc

The average profit margin for a vet clinic is usually around 10 to 15 percent.
the average dental practice is usually 30-40 percent,
the average pub is usually 80 percent.

If I and the other staff members chose to work for free and remove the cost of wages from a bill...it only reduces the bill by 30 percent. Thats where they aim the expected staffing cost in a vet practice. I think people while they complain about all this pricing controversy...don't appear to realise that veterinary hospitals are a small business not a charity and also need to run a profit to continue to survive.

I'm very glad not to be working in the UK at the moment. Its already at crisis point retention of staff wise, brexit really decimated the amount of overseas grads entering and the burnout rate which was already high before covid is definitely a hugh issue in all the staffing levels not just vets alone, nurses and support staff as well....
The abuse from people now deciding thats its all a rip off and complaining even more then usual about costs is just another reason to see more good staff chose to leave and retrain into better paid jobs with less emotional trauma. Like most of the vocation type industries its been chronically underpaid for years so its harder to justifying staying when you could be much better off in a job with a lot less responsibility involved.

I do wonder if the result of this enquiry will be increasing costs for the cheaper areas to match to the more expensive though. Each clinic usually runs as their own little business, but consistency across the board should rise costs really not reduce them.
Its not like theres a lot of room in the profit margin to reduce the costs, plus inflation and other costs continue to rise.

Corporatisation does sort of mean that the old way of running practices -where billing was allowed and there was hugh amounts of unpaid debt allowed to accumulate in the name of doing it for the animals sake and hoping their humans would pay ...is dying off quickly as that is not a good way to make consistent profit. Big business has entered the arena. Theres no going back. But I dont think they can be blamed as the sole reason. The prices did have to go up with medical advancement as well.

It'll be interesting to watch the fall out from a distance. But like with most train wrecks I'm glad to not be directly involved.

 

[meleeka]

My vet is part of CVS. I don’t think we need to worry that they are struggling to make an obscene profit out of people’s misery

Be warned, it looks like they are branching out to Australia too.

CVS Group records leap in annual income

Bosses have welcomed a ‘strong’ set of results, but say a near 50% increase in profits is influenced by last year’s measures taken to address competition

www.vettimes.co.uk

https://www.cvsukltd.co.uk/globalassets/annual-report/cvs-group-plc-2023-annual-report.pdf

 

[maisie06]

No excuse for people taking it out on staff who in most cases have no say on fees anyway.

I used to work in retail, and the numebr of customers who thought they coud take out their anger about price rises on cashiers was unbelievable...when i worked in a farm supply store horse owners were the worst i'm sorry to say!!