Video of monitor removing fox from hounds

[bubbilygum]

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=FkY7w8u6uEw&desktop_uri=/watch?v=FkY7w8u6uEw&gl=GB

Old Berks is my local hunt.. I don't hunt myself (bit of a wimp) but I have attended hunt organised events (point to point, hunt balls etc) and would never consider myself to be against hunting, but I found myself quite shocked about seeing the hounds actually on a fox... Perhaps I am naive/showing my true wimpiness but I found this quite upsetting! Also, surely given the hunting ban, shouldn't the hunt members stood watching have intervened? I don't fully understand the new rules but this strikes me as being 'illegal'?!

 

[sweet_essence]

oh God.....

next they'll be putting cameras in abattoirs.


To answer your question. The hunt supporters shout to get the lady off the fox.... they know (as maybe I should suggest to you) that the fox has the best ability to survive against the hounds.

Unfortuntely, with the intevention of a human... the fox has no chance to survive (in the manner to live the life it once lived). Human contact = no life to the fox in the wilderness it once lived. This is the whole point of hunting. Natural selection, natual upon natural, natural cull.

I'm no legal expert... but it looks like the huntsmans view is blocked, hence it is unfortunely an instance that hounds on a trail (with 300 years of breeding to pick up on a fox scent and kill)... have done what natural instinct inidicates.

Perhaps I could suggest to speak to the masters of this hunt if you are not guided correctly on the current circumstances of the law of Hunting Act 2005.

My response to this. Poor, poor fox. Now man handled it will never live the life it once lived, is so clearly stessed by the human contact and ,bless, is now better shot. (which I believe is legal - perhaps the lady could do the honours) .

 

[JanetGeorge]

Didn't look to me as if hounds were hunting that fox - they literally ran into it. A minute before the huntsman was calling the pack together and the hounds that happened on the fox were away from the pack (who were just lolloping up to the stationary huntsman - NOT what you'd see if hounds were hunting a fox.) Scent would have been pretty much non existent with a couple of big slurry tankers and I think the fox was mooching around the slurry tankers - probably rat hunting - and the straggler hounds just fell onto him. They certainly weren't in full cry as they would have been if they'd been on the fox's scent!

The STUPID woman deserved to get bitten throwing herself on the fox like that - she would have terrified it! (Also, if hounds HAD been after it for more than a few seconds, chances are one of them might have bitten her while going for the fox.) Supporters certainly shouldn't try and 'discipline' hounds. Most wouldn't have a CLUE how to go about it anyway!

 

[Moomin1]

oh God.....

next they'll be putting cameras in abattoirs.


To answer your question. The hunt supporters shout to get the lady off the fox.... they know (as maybe I should suggest to you) that the fox has the best ability to survive against the hounds.

Unfortuntely, with the intevention of a human... the fox has no chance to survive (in the manner to live the life it once lived). Human contact = no life to the fox in the wilderness it once lived. This is the whole point of hunting. Natural selection, natual upon natural, natural cull.

I'm no legal expert... but it looks like the huntsmans view is blocked, hence it is unfortunely an instance that hounds on a trail (with 300 years of breeding to pick up on a fox scent and kill)... have done what natural instinct inidicates.

Perhaps I could suggest to speak to the masters of this hunt if you are not guided correctly on the current circumstances of the law of Hunting Act 2005.

My response to this. Poor, poor fox. Now man handled it will never live the life it once lived, is so clearly stessed by the human contact and ,bless, is now better shot. (which I believe is legal - perhaps the lady could do the honours) .

Hundreds of injured foxes are taken in each month and treated and released by humans. They go back into the wild fine.

Hope that puts your mind at rest.

H

 

[Wot_u_c]

Hundreds of injured foxes are taken in each month and treated and released by humans. They go back into the wild fine.

H

According to who?

 

[weebarney]

oh God.....

next they'll be putting cameras in abattoirs.

Unfortuntely, with the intevention of a human... the fox has no chance to survive (in the manner to live the life it once lived). Human contact = no life to the fox in the wilderness it once lived. This is the whole point of hunting. Natural selection, natual upon natural, natural cull.

I'm no legal expert... but it looks like the huntsmans view is blocked, hence it is unfortunely an instance that hounds on a trail (with 300 years of breeding to pick up on a fox scent and kill)... have done what natural instinct inidicates.

Perhaps I could suggest to speak to the masters of this hunt if you are not guided correctly on the current circumstances of the law of Hunting Act 2005.

My response to this. Poor, poor fox. Now man handled it will never live the life it once lived, is so clearly stessed by the human contact and ,bless, is now better shot. (which I believe is legal - perhaps the lady could do the honours) .

I don't get this post at all? What would be the problem with cameras in an abattoir anyway?
That is ridiculous to suggest a fox that has been handled by humans can't be returned to the wild. I rescued an owl that was trapped in netting and took it to a wild animal sanctuary to be checked before getting released, should I have just wrung its neck?

 

[OEH]

I do lots if photography for the hunt and received hate mail from an anti yesterday as a result if this!!!!!

 

[sweet_essence]

Don't don't get my point 'H'....

Foxes aren't humans. Foxy is in its wilderness; smelly, cold, wet, eathy, foxy world looking to scout out food, a mate, and reproduce. Think like a foxy... that's why I mention 'natural' in the context of the foxes best ability to survive against the hound. It either walks away to live another day in its foxy world, or it doesn't. It's as simple as that.

Yes, he is more than likely dead under the nose of a very well bred foxhound (on trail).... but he has a foxy choice in his natural environment... and if that foxy choice leads to a quick death then unfortunately its the darkness that invites him that day (and a huntsmans horn will honour that). BUT....he also has a foxy chance, and low and behold, if that foxy chance is survival against a hound is won - he walks away with his tail held high to live the best possible life a fox could lead in a world known to him (as a FOX).

Now lets return back to the annoying screaming erratic lady (really, there is no need to be so loud and panicked). By man handling this fox..... its now causing HIGH unneccessary distress for a PROLONGED time in an un-natural environment. Longterm for this fox....think like a foxy... would you want to mate with a fox that smelt alien (by human contact) or socialise with a fox that puts you're young familiy at risk by running up to humans/ danger/ roads... nope, vixen foxy only wants a dog that gives her the best possible chance to successfully mate and bring up cunning young, smart enough to outwit in a human influenced world and strong enough to fight off danger. The type of fox thats bred, that in foxy generations to come strengthens the brand of the 'cunning as a fox'.

I'm sure there are lots of 'successful' releases back into the wild - but, like a bird touched by humans (did your teachers not tell you about this one), natural selection (from human contact) will now kick in for that fox - it's lost its natural course to live in the wilderness.

Golden rule for humans- if you get a chance to, don't ever touch a fox (or a bird or deer or anything 'wild') if you want it to remain unmarked to survive in its natural wilderness world.

This is a good read to understand about the distress put onto a fox in this instance...

www.vet-wildlifemanagement.org.uk/images/stories/item-images/pdf/HWMMI-12-11.pdf

 

[weebarney]

Don't don't get my point 'H'....

Foxes aren't humans. Foxy is in its wilderness; smelly, cold, wet, eathy, foxy world looking to scout out food, a mate, and reproduce. Think like a foxy... that's why I mention 'natural' in the context of the foxes best ability to survive against the hound. It either walks away to live another day in its foxy world, or it doesn't. It's as simple as that.

Yes, he is more than likely dead under the nose of a very well bred foxhound (on trail).... but he has a foxy choice in his natural environment... and if that foxy choice leads to a quick death then unfortunately its the darkness that invites him that day (and a huntsmans horn will honour that). BUT....he also has a foxy chance, and low and behold, if that foxy chance is survival against a hound is won - he walks away with his tail held high to live the best possible life a fox could lead in a world known to him (as a FOX).

Now lets return back to the annoying screaming erratic lady (really, there is no need to be so loud and panicked). By man handling this fox..... its now causing HIGH unneccessary distress for a PROLONGED time in an un-natural environment. Longterm for this fox....think like a foxy... would you want to mate with a fox that smelt alien (by human contact) or socialise with a fox that puts you're young familiy at risk by running up to humans/ danger/ roads... nope, vixen foxy only wants a dog that gives her the best possible chance to successfully mate and bring up cunning young, smart enough to outwit in a human influenced world and strong enough to fight off danger. The type of fox thats bred, that in foxy generations to come strengthens the brand of the 'cunning as a fox'.

I'm sure there are lots of 'successful' releases back into the wild - but, like a bird touched by humans (did your teachers not tell you about this one), natural selection (from human contact) will now kick in for that fox - it's lost its natural course to live in the wilderness.

Golden rule for humans- if you get a chance to, don't ever touch a fox (or a bird or deer or anything 'wild') if you want it to remain unmarked to survive in its natural wilderness world.

This is a good read to understand about the distress put onto a fox in this instance...

www.vet-wildlifemanagement.org.uk/images/stories/item-images/pdf/HWMMI-12-11.pdf

Sorry but this post is terribly misguided. If I handle a cat will I smell of cat for life ? No it will be very temporary, same as a human touching a wild animal. Ps think you need to educate yourself before posting as a bird will not be rejected because it has been handled. You are showing yourself up as seriously uneducated on wild life.
Oh and what is wrong with cameras in an abattoir ? You never said.

 

[sweet_essence]

Quite the contary Weebarney... you are showing yourself up.

A veterinary or wildlife sanctuary will be following guidelines to the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 on the conservation and protection on of owls and raptors.

This subject was on 'Fox'.

My mere comment on abbatoirs, was if they want to see and film something shocking, see how humane and legalised animal death occcurs for meat to be on your plate.

Good day,

 

[weebarney]

Quite the contary Weebarney... you are showing yourself up.

A veterinary or wildlife sanctuary will be following guidelines to the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 on the conservation and protection on of owls and raptors.

This subject was on 'Fox'.

My mere comment on abbatoirs, was if they want to see and film something shocking, see how humane and legalised animal death occcurs for meat to be on your plate.

Good day,

Did you not just say you should never handle a wild bird? Honestly have you never seen chicks getting ringed?
You say a fox that has been handled by a human is better shot, so this problem only occurs with foxes does it? Oh and birds

 

[weebarney]

Quite the contary Weebarney... you are showing yourself up.



Good day,

How am I showing myself up? Is it because I pointed out the stuff you were spouting is untrue?
I hope you never come across an animal in distress and needing help.

 

[sweet_essence]

Hello Weebarney,

Thank you for manipulating my last post and deleting some comments.

I'm hoping the chicks being ringed (that you refer to) were held by someone with a licensed under that wildlfe act.

...and please dont assume the person that I am (judging by your febble comments - you will be way off the mark), like I dont assume the person that you maybe. This column is not about me nor is it about you.

 

[Fiagai]

From this footage it is evident that:

The fox appears to have been in the vicinity of the silos when the hounds were moving around same

The hounds were not hunting at the time of the incident - see hounds behaviour / reaction before and also when hounds suddenly finding a fox behind them. Only one hound turns back and spots the fox initialy.

I find it somewhat strange that the fox just happens to magically appear as the sab turns up with camera - this is strangely coincidential imo

The woman is able to grab the fox from hounds - if this fox was actually been hunted by hounds - she would certainly not been able to do this

Ok Foxes and hounds do encounter each other from time to time... this is not something that hunt staff can always avoid. It would appear that the Antis are attempting to start a witch hunt in this incident

I also suspect that this fox may in the face of it been released for the purpsose of creating this video - is this actually a handled / tame fox? Wild foxes cannot normally just be grabbed like that.

This video footage does not add up....

More anti hunt propaganda by Antis? Its not like they havn't tried similar stunts previously

And finally the fox has already been released according to the video - surely the antis would have hung on to it for evidence if this was as not just abit of anti film making and they wished to present this?

Something smells and its not just the fox imo...

 

[Fiagai]

Ok went back for a forensic look

Hounds definitly not hunting

0.0 - 0.45 Huntsman gathering hounds to him - hounds not in full cry

0.45 Group of hounds milling at crossroad ie not hunting

0.49 Hounds exiting to left away from silos and where fox later "appears"

0.50-0.51 camera pans to silo - footage between horses clearly shows no fox or hounds in front of or to the right of Silos

0.52 Camera pans left around group of three horses - Fox suddenly appears in footage to the right of silos

0.53 Fox encounters hound / hound encounter fox to right of silos

0.55 Woman with video camera starts full scale panic [Comment posted with video -Fortunately for the fox, her "guardian angel" was only feet away] It doesnt wash I'm afraid....

 

[happyhunter123]

Unfortunately, I cannot use YouTube, so can't see this video.

It's perfectly plausible that the pack accidentally caught a fox. I remember catching a fox out beagling about three seasons back-obviously beagles aren't meant to be catching foxes and it was much to the irritation of the hunt staff.

From what people are saying, it does sound a bit fishy, and we all know that the antis love a bit of editing! They can be, let's say, economical when it comes to telling the truth.
The fact they were there at the right place at the right time is a bit funny. Hmmm. And the fact that the hounds supposedly weren't even speaking! Really?

It would be good news for hunting if these people could well and truly be exposed as liars. Let's hope that they are. Otherwise, it's a damaging piece of footage, not one that can be used to gain a prosecution, but damaging non the less.

 

[happyhunter123]

Ok, have seen the video now and to me it is plain and clear-the fox hadn't being hunted. This was not the end of a hunt. Why was everyone standing around still? Why weren't the hounds in full cry? Doesn't make sense in the slightest.

 

[Jools1234]

i cant view it for some reason

 

[bubbilygum]

i cant view it for some reason

Jools1234 - I think the link i posted is for the "mobile" version of the video (posted on ipad, i think this is why) - the name of the video is 'FOX RESCUED FROM THE SNAPPING JAWS OF HOUNDS' if you want to search for it.

Fiagai - I hadn't considered previously that the monitors has planted the fox but this could very well be true, it does seem somewhat convenient that the fox just appears from nowhere and also appears to be just wandering around in the open in daylight... I'm no fox expert but it does seem odd.

 

[Rowreach]

From this footage it is evident that:

The fox appears to have been in the vicinity of the silos when the hounds were moving around same

The hounds were not hunting at the time of the incident - see hounds behaviour / reaction before and also when hounds suddenly finding a fox behind them. Only one hound turns back and spots the fox initialy.

I find it somewhat strange that the fox just happens to magically appear as the sab turns up with camera - this is strangely coincidential imo

The woman is able to grab the fox from hounds - if this fox was actually been hunted by hounds - she would certainly not been able to do this

Ok Foxes and hounds do encounter each other from time to time... this is not something that hunt staff can always avoid. It would appear that the Antis are attempting to start a witch hunt in this incident

I also suspect that this fox may in the face of it been released for the purpsose of creating this video - is this actually a handled / tame fox? Wild foxes cannot normally just be grabbed like that.

This video footage does not add up....

More anti hunt propaganda by Antis? Its not like they havn't tried similar stunts previously

And finally the fox has already been released according to the video - surely the antis would have hung on to it for evidence if this was as not just abit of anti film making and they wished to present this?

Something smells and its not just the fox imo...

It wouldn't be the first time this has happened. Looking through my hunting diaries I could give you time and date of a startlingly similar incident back in the 90s. And that wouldn't be the only one.

 

[Boysy]

I've just watched having figured out to watch on daughters ipod.

Either that fox was planted or it is totally deaf and blind and lost it's sense of smell, IME no way would a wild fox wander out casually into the path of any other dog. And no panic or wriggling from foxy whilst screaming abdab lady cuddles it and runs away? That lil foxy would have been fighting for it's life and biting all over had it not been handled before, they have a wicked snap when they are threatened or caught unawares no matter what has grabbed hold of them, it's back legs weren't even kicking and scrabbling?

 

[happyhunter123]

Fiagai - I hadn't considered previously that the monitors has planted the fox but this could very well be true.

The question is, would they really be as stupid as to do something like that? Really? I'm not sure. I know that they've been accused of planting foxes before (e.g. in the Sinnington case) but there has never been any hard evidence. Is it a pet or tame fox? Antis are generally misguided animal lovers, but they'd probably put that behind making attacks on hunting (all for the greater good?).

 

[happyhunter123]

That lil foxy would have been fighting for it's life and biting all over had it not been handled before, they have a wicked snap when they are threatened or caught unawares no matter what has grabbed hold of them, it's back legs weren't even kicking and scrabbling?

It is, of course, possible that the fox was dead or nearly dead (had it been wild), no matter that they claim to have 'saved' it.

 

[cptrayes]

but I found myself quite shocked about seeing the hounds actually on a fox... Perhaps I am naive/showing my true wimpiness but I found this quite upsetting!

I gave up fox hunting when I saw the reality of the chase and kill. This video may, or may not, have been "staged" but that isn't really relevant.

I know personally of four hunts illegally hunting fox and everyone in foxhunting knows it's going on though some like to pretend that they don't.

And that video IS representative of the truth of hounds pulling a fox to pieces and it is happening on a regular basis in spite of the law. Bubbilygum, that's what the hounds do when they catch a fox, grab a piece each, and pull. Only usually the unlucky fox that gets pulled to pieces has often been chased for a couple of miles first.

Now lets wait for all the "it usually gets away" posts, as if that makes any difference.

 

[happyhunter123]

And that video IS representative of the truth of hounds pulling a fox to pieces and it is happening on a regular basis in spite of the law. Bubbilygum, that's what the hounds do when they catch a fox, grab a piece each, and pull. Only usually the unlucky fox that gets pulled to pieces has often been chased for a couple of miles first.

Yes, but the death is quick-surely you know that? The fox wasn't pulled to pieces here, it was shaken about a bit. That is how hounds, and all dogs for that matter, kill. Death happens within seconds, there is NO protracted fight and the fox is easily outmatched. It's not how it happens, it's how quick it happens that counts.
The claim that foxes are 'pulled to pieces' is rubbish. Yes, they are but only when dead and they are being eaten. Look at pictures of foxes killed in the Lake District, where foxes are not fed to hounds and you will see that they are intact. And look at the fox at the end of this IFAW, pre ban video:
http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch?v=Iyt9Os6NpYY

Ripped to bits? I think not.

 

[weebarney]

Hello Weebarney,

Thank you for manipulating my last post and deleting some comments.

I'm hoping the chicks being ringed (that you refer to) were held by someone with a licensed under that wildlfe act.

...and please dont assume the person that I am (judging by your febble comments - you will be way off the mark), like I dont assume the person that you maybe. This column is not about me nor is it about you.

It's not manipulating, it's called a quote. I merely point out your poor knowledge of wildlife even though you try to come across as knowing a great deal by mentioning wild life acts etc. I don't refer to any particular chicks, you only have to watch a bird wildlife programme to see birds being handled, it's not rocket science. Your theory of a fox somehow acquiring a lifelong odour of human on it, we'll that just stinks!

 

[L&M]

As a child I was always told never to pick up a baby bird if it had fallen out the nest, as the parents would reject it because of the human smell.....

 

[weebarney]

As a child I was always told never to pick up a baby bird if it had fallen out the nest, as the parents would reject it because of the human smell.....

Urban myth

 

[EAST KENT]

That fox was released back in a safer place I am told,as for being tame,well it looked very stressed to me whilst being carried.Personally I refuse to believe that sabs would sink so low as to use a fox in this way,but by golly I do know of many Kent bagged foxes ending up being hunted up country.

 

[happyhunter123]

Urban myth

I was told the same thing! You learn something new every day.
Anyway, I think this is rather moving away from the original topic.