Video of monitor removing fox from hounds

[happyhunter123]

Speaking as someone who inadvertantly did just that ,I can assure you the pack heel lined a wee bit ,forward cast,and carried on in full cry.Maybe our Kent foxes are unique

Maybe they are...

Anyway, I think that it is important to steer this thread back towards the original topic, and that was this particular film.
Obviously, a few people are wondering about how 'real' this piece of footage is. I think it is maybe a little far fetched to suggest that this is a set-up, but then again with these people you never know. What's certain is that the antis have been trying hard to make this a news story (did they get it on the local BBC news?) and publicise this as much as possible. That isn't great publicity for us.

If (and I emphasise that) this was a 'set-up' then we must make a very concerted effort to prove it as such. It would potentially be disastrous for the antis, and it would destroy any credibility that they have. The consequences would be far reaching. We know for certain that this wasn't a case of illegal hunting-even if the pack had been hunting illegally during the rest of that day, this was very clearly an accident.

Here is what most probably happened: the fox was probably lying up in bales (or something of the sort) around the farm. When the pack arrived, the fox might have left the bales, and been spotted by the two couple or so that appeared in the video. They grabbed him and antis just happened to be there and 'rescued' it. The only thing that doesn't add up in that is the antis being in the right place at the right time!

This is what was on the BBC News Website: In a statement, the Old Berkshire hunt said no foxes were hunted on 14 November when the footage was filmed, and rejected any suggestion that it broke the law.

It added: "A fox appeared in a farmyard with five stray hounds and was jumped on by animal rights activists."

 

[weebarney]

There is no way someone who was anti hunting would release a fox near some hounds for a publicity stunt. Definately onto a looser trying to prove the opposite. If the hunt people werent looking for the fox why were they hanging about there?

 

[happyhunter123]

There is no way someone who was anti hunting would release a fox near some hounds for a publicity stunt. Definately onto a looser trying to prove the opposite. If the hunt people werent looking for the fox why were they hanging about there?

I am inclined to agree with you. It would seem like complete idiocy to me. They do like their stunts, but surely this would be going too far? There is, however something wrong about this whole incident-anyone who knows anything about hunting could tell you that.

What do you mean, why were they hanging around there? Probably, because they were hunting in the area. Foxes are a very common species and it's hard to go to a bit of countryside where they aren't! They weren't even in covert, they were in a farmyard.
It was an accident, the pack weren't in full cry, and most of the hounds weren't there.

 

[weebarney]

I am inclined to agree with you. It would seem like complete idiocy to me. There is, however something wrong about this whole incident.

What do you mean, why were they hanging around there? Probably, because they were hunting in the area. Foxes are a very common species and it's hard to go to a bit of countryside where they aren't! They weren't even in covert, they were in a farmyard.
It was an accident, the pack weren't in full cry, and most of the hounds weren't there.

Just say this as its been stated they were not hunting the fox, to imply the observers had put it there. Looked to me like they all knew there was a fox in their somewhere.

 

[Fiagai]

Well then why does it happen? How does it stop producing scent? I'm no expert on scent, but I know it happens!
The topic of scent is a mysterious one. Scent can come and go, as you'll know if you've had a bad scenting day out hunting.

hh - scent is the distinctive musky odor a fox leaves on the ground, grass, foliage, and in the air.

The scent left behind by a fox and hence scenting conditions can vary with weather, vegetation and ground conditions. A windy day, wet or warm conditions all effect how much scent there is on a given day...

If you have ever handled a fox or been in the vicinity of a foxes earth it is appreciate how musky a foxes scent is.

 

[Fiagai]

There is no way someone who was anti hunting would release a fox near some hounds for a publicity stunt. Definately onto a looser trying to prove the opposite. If the hunt people werent looking for the fox why were they hanging about there?

The "hunt people" were in a farm yard, hunting quite often involves stops. In this instance it looks like hounds lost the trail they were following hence the huntsman calling hounds and hounds milling around aimlessly. Why would the hunt be looking for a fox in a farmyard? hardly the type of place foxes would hang out if they were lying low...

Similar instances have happened previously with Antis planting evidence. Whichever I find the video footage very dubious at best. Importantly Why do we have an Anti filming a silo followed by another anti filming the Anti filming the silo?

I dont get this tbh.

 

[weebarney]

The "hunt people" were in a farm yard, hunting quite often involves stops. In this instance it looks like hounds lost the trail they were following hence the huntsman calling hounds and hounds milling around aimlessly. Why would the hunt be looking for a fox in a farmyard? hardly the type of place foxes would hang out if they were lying low...

Similar instances have happened previously with Antis planting evidence. Whichever I find the video footage very dubious at best. Importantly Why do we have an Anti filming a silo followed by another anti filming the Anti filming the silo?

I dont get this tbh.

ive only watched it once but im sure they are wearing bodycams (at least the on that picks it up is)so they are filming in the direction they are facing, nothing more than that.

 

[happyhunter123]

Similar instances have happened previously with Antis planting evidence. Whichever I find the video footage very dubious at best. Importantly Why do we have an Anti filming a silo followed by another anti filming the Anti filming the silo?

I dont get this tbh.

I know antis have been accused of setting us up before, but sadly there has been little hard evidence to back this up
If there was, the damage to them (if we got the story in the press) would be tremendous. Any ounce of credibility would be vanquished.

 

[Fiagai]

I know antis have been accused of setting us up before, but sadly there has been little hard evidence to back this up
If there was, the damage to them (if we got the story in the press) would be tremendous. Any ounce of credibility would be vanquished.

Agreed and if that is the case I hope the thruth comes out. There is another scenario that hounds encountered the fox that was there and that had to decide to leg it out of the farmyard.

It is nearly impossibible to always avoid encountering a fox. Hounds dont know otherwise and will react if they litterly run into a fox.

From the footage of the hunstman and hounds it is obvious that the hounds are not hunting. The hunt have released a statement to back this up.

 

[Hunters]

How do you get a hound to tell the difference between a scent trailed & a real fox scent?

Answer = impossible

Therefore, accidents are inevitable. Likewise, you are unlikely to convert an anti to pro hunting, or vice versa.

 

[happyhunter123]

How do you get a hound to tell the difference between a scent trailed & a real fox scent?

Answer = impossible

Therefore, accidents are inevitable. Likewise, you are unlikely to convert an anti to pro hunting, or vice versa.

in regards to antis, that is, thankfully not always the case. Look at ex-LACS head Jim Barrington. It is easier, I'd reckon, to convert an anti to a pro.
Accidents will always be inevitable-hounds will always find and chop foxes/hares.

 

[Orangehorse]

Foxes do tend to hang out in farmyards, like in a nice large pile of big bales or in a hay barn.

 

[cptrayes]

How do you get a hound to tell the difference between a scent trailed & a real fox scent?

Answer = impossible

Therefore, accidents are inevitable. Likewise, you are unlikely to convert an anti to pro hunting, or vice versa.

This video does look like a genuine accident to me, perhaps with a sick/dozy fox hanging around in a farmyard. But although accidents like it are probably inevitable, I would say that they should be extremely rare.

The answer to your question about telling the difference between a trailed scent and a real scent is that the humans with them tell them not to chase the real scent.

I have drag hunted for 6 1/2 seasons in total and on not one occasion have our hounds ever caught a fox, and nor have they ever chased a fox for longer than it took the Huntsman to call them off, perhaps half a minute. They often pick up the scent. They never follow it once they have been called off/headed off by the whips and Huntsman.

 

[happyhunter123]

I have drag hunted for 6 seasons in total and on not one occasion have our hounds ever caught a fox, and nor have they ever chased a fox for longer than it took the Huntsman to call them off, perhaps half a minute. They often pick up the scent. They never follow it once they have been called off/headedoff by the whips and Huntsman.

Are you sure that they have never chopped a fox-its perfectly possible I would imagine? Especially a sick one. Like I said, we caught a fox beagling once, so obviously accidents can and do happen. We routinely hunt foxes out beagling (beagles are heedless creatures) and frequently hunt deer our foxhunting as well, so it clearly isn't always easy for staff to get hounds off. I expect that they probably wish that it was.
Anyway, it make no difference as this was clearly unintentional. The hounds were not hunting the fox prior to catching it.

Out of interest, and this is irrelevant I know, which draghound pack do you hunt with?

 

[Hunters]

The drag packs do not hunt a fox based scent. The fox hounds do. The clue is in the name fox hound.

FOX hounds continue to follow fox based scent as:

A) They have been bred that way meticulously for generations.

B) If there ever should be an appeal, hunting a 'proper ' fox scent will be easy.

But that is why there are not 'accidents' on the drag hunt field..

 

[cptrayes]

The drag packs do not hunt a fox based scent. The fox hounds do. The clue is in the name fox hound.

FOX hounds continue to follow fox based scent as:

A) They have been bred that way meticulously for generations.

B) If there ever should be an appeal, hunting a 'proper ' fox scent will be easy.

But that is why there are not 'accidents' on the drag hunt field..

Don't be daft !

We hunt FOX hounds.

And they chase FOX scent, often. They often get much more excited by fox scent than what we lay, you can hear it when they find.

And they get called off, and respond.

The only difference is that packs that are deliberately hunting fox aren't taught the same level of discipline about being called off the scent, which is why fox packs get complaints about tresass and drag packs don't.

 

[cptrayes]

Are you sure that they have never chopped a fox-its perfectly possible I would imagine? Especially a sick one.

I have never seen them and I rarely lose sight of the hounds, I am right behind the Field Master and the Huntsman is normally in view.

We find a scent often, we just don't allow them to follow it.

Out of interest, and this is irrelevant I know, which draghound pack do you hunt with?

I hunt with Cheshire Farmers, am a subscriber to North East Cheshire, and have previously drag hunted with Berks and Bucks and fox hunted with the Curre, The Berkely and the Duke of Beaufort

Anyway, it make no difference as this was clearly unintentional. The hounds were not hunting the fox prior to catching it.

Completely agree, have already said so very early on. Even our hounds would have taken a dozy fox half asleep by a farm track. Personally I think the thing was probably sick and the hounds should have been allowed to put it out of its misery.

 

[combat_claire]

Don't be daft !

We hunt FOX hounds.

Hounds usually get drafted to a drag pack because they are a bit thick...

 

[cptrayes]

Hounds usually get drafted to a drag pack because they are a bit thick...

Bollox.

We breed ours, won three out of 4 classes at Peterborough and sell the ones that don't have the discipline for it to Fox Packs

 

[combat_claire]

I suspect that your pack is in the minority. Certainly round here the Cambridge University Drag have in recent years taken hounds that have proved unsuitable for their roles with the Southwold and Fitzwilliam to name but two packs.

They certainly weren't the cream of the crop that was set to hunt the drag that I was laying last season as at least half of the pack were running mute and the remainder were coursing me by sight! I put in a slight double back on one line and it completely foxed them.

As hounds are not permitted to be bought and sold on the open market, I'm sure the MFHA would be most interested in your claims to be selling houndsto foxhound packs.

 

[cptrayes]

I suspect that your pack is in the minority. .

What, both of them? Both breed their own. Both lay pretty much the full leg before putting the hounds onto the scent so they are not coursing by sight. And the lines are frequently doubled back to allow the field take maximum opportuinity to jump hedges. Sounds like the one you laid lines for was the odd one to me.



ps I was pulling your plonker about selling them to a fox pack CC!

 

[JanetGeorge]

in regards to antis, that is, thankfully not always the case. Look at ex-LACS head Jim Barrington. It is easier, I'd reckon, to convert an anti to a pro.

Only if they're 'decent' antis! And Jim Barrington IS a decent man! He swallowed the anti-hunt propaganda when he was young, started as a sab, but didn't like the way the sabs did things. So he got involved with LACS and worked his way up!

There were a number of things that led to his final 'conversion' - not least being the discovery that not only were 'his' side lying to the press and anyone else who would listen - they also lied to HIM! (He was mortally embarrassed when he saw what REALLY happened with the 'Quantocks incident' - and not what the LACS video showed!)

 

[shannonandtay]

I too, do not believe that there are many living beings that would just 'acquiesce' and accept death in a situation where you are being chased. There is either fight or flight in most cases and the will for any being to cling onto life is more powerful than the urge to stop, accept and give up would be.

Not sure where you got your info on most humans doing so. Humans are remarkable in their will to survive, as are most living beings.

Exactly, why do most humans and animals fight for their lives when being attacked. Where is all this nonsense coming from its laughable.

 

[EAST KENT]

Absolute rubbish!Any living thing fights tooth and nail to survive,never heard such tosh.

 

[happyhunter123]

Only if they're 'decent' antis! And Jim Barrington IS a decent man! He swallowed the anti-hunt propaganda when he was young, started as a sab, but didn't like the way the sabs did things. So he got involved with LACS and worked his way up!

There were a number of things that led to his final 'conversion' - not least being the discovery that not only were 'his' side lying to the press and anyone else who would listen - they also lied to HIM! (He was mortally embarrassed when he saw what REALLY happened with the 'Quantocks incident' - and not what the LACS video showed!)

Indeed, he is a decent man. If every anti were as decent as him, OK, they might not all become staunchly pro hunting, but they would at least listen and consider 'the other side'. If they could see hunting people as normal people that we are, not 'toffee nosed, sadistic scum' then that would go a long, long way. If only they could understand why we enjoy hunting really.
That doesn't mean that they would necessarily agree with the practice of hunting, but if they were able listen to us, and engage in calm, sensible debate then it might help. I'd much rather they saw us as decent, but misguided people than monsters.
Sadly, I guess that's beyond them. Half of being 'anti-hunting' is hating the people involved in it.

 

[Moomin1]

From this footage it is evident that:

The fox appears to have been in the vicinity of the silos when the hounds were moving around same

The hounds were not hunting at the time of the incident - see hounds behaviour / reaction before and also when hounds suddenly finding a fox behind them. Only one hound turns back and spots the fox initialy.

I find it somewhat strange that the fox just happens to magically appear as the sab turns up with camera - this is strangely coincidential imo

The woman is able to grab the fox from hounds - if this fox was actually been hunted by hounds - she would certainly not been able to do this

Ok Foxes and hounds do encounter each other from time to time... this is not something that hunt staff can always avoid. It would appear that the Antis are attempting to start a witch hunt in this incident

I also suspect that this fox may in the face of it been released for the purpsose of creating this video - is this actually a handled / tame fox? Wild foxes cannot normally just be grabbed like that.

This video footage does not add up....

More anti hunt propaganda by Antis? Its not like they havn't tried similar stunts previously

And finally the fox has already been released according to the video - surely the antis would have hung on to it for evidence if this was as not just abit of anti film making and they wished to present this?

Something smells and its not just the fox imo...

I do myself wonder if that fox is actually a tame fox. I most certainly have never been able to grab a fox like that unless it has been nigh on dead already.

 

[4x4]

Well I can't make it work!

 

[Uraeus]

This woman has no right to be in the countryside. Let nature take its cause and get something constructive to worry about. Does she think she's helping or making a difference? Half the time the fox isn't even caught.

 

[weebarney]

This woman has no right to be in the countryside. Let nature take its cause and get something constructive to worry about. Does she think she's helping or making a difference? Half the time the fox isn't even caught.

Excuse me ? She has no right to be in the countryside? What are you talking about? You're making yourself look very dumb.

 

[Foxhunter49]

It all looks like a complete set up.

The quality of the video is very poor.
There is no sign of the fox actually moving. When the woman has it in her arms at no point does it move its head or its mouth. The film shows her only from behind.

I have seen this before - way before the ban.

I has been on the IOW and was travelling back to work on the mainland. I noticed two young teen girls, who should have been at school, walking along the road carrying what I thought was a cat but as they got closer I saw it was a fox.
I was waiting at a junction and had plenty of time to observe them and as they got closer I realised that the fox was obviously dead as it never moved at all.

A couple of days later I was talking to a friend who told me that there was a to do over the killing of a 'pet' fox belonging to two girls. Hounds had killed it when they had it out and they had been on the local news.

I put two and two together. I did not know the girls but it was very coincidental that I had seem them and the two girls with the 'pet' fox had come from the town I had been in.
The Hunt was across the other side of the Island, the girls should have been in school and their father was a leading anti on the Island.

The protests were thick and strong and when I called the producer of the programme and pointed out the faults they didn't want to know. So, the anti's sink pretty low to put out bad press for the hunts.

The fact that the film is such bad quality, the fact that the fox does not move, the fact that they did not show it being released, the fact that hounds were not really that interested in it, had they been then they would have been all over her, makes me believe it was a dead fox defrosted especially for the occasion. .