Video of monitor removing fox from hounds

[bubbilygum]

It all looks like a complete set up.

The quality of the video is very poor.
There is no sign of the fox actually moving. When the woman has it in her arms at no point does it move its head or its mouth. The film shows her only from behind.

I have seen this before - way before the ban.

I has been on the IOW and was travelling back to work on the mainland. I noticed two young teen girls, who should have been at school, walking along the road carrying what I thought was a cat but as they got closer I saw it was a fox.
I was waiting at a junction and had plenty of time to observe them and as they got closer I realised that the fox was obviously dead as it never moved at all.

A couple of days later I was talking to a friend who told me that there was a to do over the killing of a 'pet' fox belonging to two girls. Hounds had killed it when they had it out and they had been on the local news.

I put two and two together. I did not know the girls but it was very coincidental that I had seem them and the two girls with the 'pet' fox had come from the town I had been in.
The Hunt was across the other side of the Island, the girls should have been in school and their father was a leading anti on the Island.

The protests were thick and strong and when I called the producer of the programme and pointed out the faults they didn't want to know. So, the anti's sink pretty low to put out bad press for the hunts.

The fact that the film is such bad quality, the fact that the fox does not move, the fact that they did not show it being released, the fact that hounds were not really that interested in it, had they been then they would have been all over her, makes me believe it was a dead fox defrosted especially for the occasion. .

Sorry, no, the fox moves LOTS - there is absolutely no way this fox is not alive.

 

[weebarney]

The fact that the film is such bad quality, the fact that the fox does not move, the fact that they did not show it being released, the fact that hounds were not really that interested in it, had they been then they would have been all over her, makes me believe it was a dead fox defrosted especially for the occasion. .

Shoud've gone to specksavers!

 

[Charem]

I agree the fox is definately alive however there is something clearly wrong with it. Whether it has been drugged, is tame or very sick I don't know but there is no way a normal healthy fox would be happily milling round with hounds that close by.

The hounds were not hunting it infact they looked positively bemused when they finally realised there was a fox there.

That woman was an idiot, no question about it and again back to the fox there's no way you could pick up and carry a healthy fox like that. She was carrying it like it was a baby, it had free rein of its head and neck and in usual circumstances it would be biting the hell out of the woman. Instead it just sat there. At no point did I see the fox bite her, when she starts saying it's biting her she has her back to the camera.

All very dodgy to me. Personally I wouldn't put it past sabs to plant a foxlike that but who knows ey....

 

[Moomin1]

I agree the fox is definately alive however there is something clearly wrong with it. Whether it has been drugged, is tame or very sick I don't know but there is no way a normal healthy fox would be happily milling round with hounds that close by.

The hounds were not hunting it infact they looked positively bemused when they finally realised there was a fox there.

That woman was an idiot, no question about it and again back to the fox there's no way you could pick up and carry a healthy fox like that. She was carrying it like it was a baby, it had free rein of its head and neck and in usual circumstances it would be biting the hell out of the woman. Instead it just sat there. At no point did I see the fox bite her, when she starts saying it's biting her she has her back to the camera.

All very dodgy to me. Personally I wouldn't put it past sabs to plant a foxlike that but who knows ey....

Agree. If it is the case, to 'plant' a fox in that situation, tame, drugged or otherwise, is inhumane to the fox, nevermind a danger.

 

[bubbilygum]

That woman was an idiot, no question about it and again back to the fox there's no way you could pick up and carry a healthy fox like that. She was carrying it like it was a baby, it had free rein of its head and neck and in usual circumstances it would be biting the hell out of the woman. Instead it just sat there. At no point did I see the fox bite her, when she starts saying it's biting her she has her back to the camera.

Doesn't she scruff the fox? I assumed she had a good hold of its neck, hence why it's mouth is so pulled back?

It does seem odd that the fox doesn't put up much of a fight but if she does have a really tight grip on it then its not impossible that its just being held still.

 

[EAST KENT]

Oh really Foxhunter,get real.That was a confused and probably shocked fox,definitely not a dead one! If you scruff one it cannot move much,but it is stress panting. honestly,I am pro hunting ,but the rubbish you lot come out with is like the spoutings of the Moonies! Think for yourselves for a change,don`t just reel out all the old stuff you have been brainwashed into saying Ad Infinitem
Walking around with a dead fox..Oh Please.It would`nt look very cuddly after hounds had had it ,would it?
And ,Yes,I have had reason to do just that with an injured young fox once,it just froze once scruffed.Sadly it had a maggot infested bullet wound and had to be PTS,but YES,that is how they react.

 

[happyhunter123]

I also have the strongest doubts about the claim that the fox lived. I'd say after being, firstly grabbed by the hounds and secondly grabbed very tightly, for a far longer period by a shrieking madwomen and stuffed in a car, it had little chance of living. Seeing as it was probably ill or injured in the first place, I'd say that that fox is now dead. The bit at the end that claims that the fox 'was released' isn't very convincing.

 

[angelish]

she hasn't got the fox by the scruff ,she has her arms wrapped around it like a teddy bear i'm just trying to figure out if the woman is "barking" mad or very brave to launch in there and grab it like that !!
seems she's lucky she didn't loose part of her face

 

[Hoof_Prints]

Haven't read the whole thread but just wanted to say how much I can't stand to watch these videos.
Yes I love animals and personally do not like to see foxes killed ( just my opinion) I have never hunted and don't intend to as it's just not my thing.

The reason I can't watch these videos is because I want to punch the overdramatic idiots running around, throwing a stress even when something small happens. Falling over gasping for air exclaiming 'did you see that? did you get it on camera?! oh my gosh THAT person over there just did this to me... etc' Desperately trying to manipulate the situation to make every person from the hunt look like a horrid nasty person picking on helpless, little, falling over in the mud fox rescuers.

ok rant over, I hate people acting pathetically! Personally I have no bias towards or against the hunt but those people are so annoying.

 

[Floxie]

Unfortuntely, with the intevention of a human... the fox has no chance to survive (in the manner to live the life it once lived). Human contact = no life to the fox in the wilderness it once lived. This is the whole point of hunting. Natural selection, natual upon natural, natural cull.

Errrr I support hunting, and did do when it officially involved foxes (though I know plenty would disagree with me - I'm not drawing on those opinions here). I don't understand or agree with this argument. How would human intervention equal "no life to the fox in the wilderness it once lived"?

EDIT: finally got the vid What beautiful shots of the hunters in the season, really lovely. Brave woman if that's what she believes in, but not something I'd try! But yes - utter horlicks crying "We need help now!". Hounds couldn't have cared less - they have brains, there's a disconnect between their prey and a human holding it ffs.

 

[Dry Rot]

I've shot, fished, and hunted all my life and I am quite shocked at some of the ignorance displayed on this thread, apparently by country people.

Animals do "play dead" when confronted with a situation they cannot cope with. Ever seen a rabbit chased by a stoat? Probably not. Well, the rabbit will run but eventually freeze and appear to give up. It's unsuccessfully tried all it's usual escape manoeuvres and they've failed, so they try one last ruse and pay the penalty.

Once a wild animal is handled by humans it cannot survive in the wild? What nonsense. They can not only survive but often happily go on to breed.

Raptors can smell? Vultures, maybe, but none of the others that I know of.

Young inexperienced hounds or hounds trained to run an artificial scent would be reluctant to bite down on an unfamiliar object (e.g. a fox). They'll catch and hold out of curiosity but would need more experience or training to kill. It is something outside their experience and they'd be cautious. Why else were young hounds taken out cubbing to get them entered when fox hunting was legal?

Do I need to go on?

If you want to take on the antis (and it can be done because they are usually wrong), make sure you get your facts right. Otherwise we just look a bit silly.

 

[cptrayes]

Animals do "play dead" when confronted with a situation they cannot cope with. Ever seen a rabbit chased by a stoat? Probably not. Well, the rabbit will run but eventually freeze and appear to give up. It's unsuccessfully tried all it's usual escape manoeuvres and they've failed, so they try one last ruse and pay the penalty.

Species that expect to be prayed upon have that as a strategy, but we were talking about foxes. Have you ever seen a fox being chased by a pack of hounds do it?

Young inexperienced hounds or hounds trained to run an artificial scent would be reluctant to bite down on an unfamiliar object (e.g. a fox).

Why? It is natural for all dogs to bite things and most young dogs have to be trained NOT to bite. The draghound packs that I hunt with have no problem biting down on the piece of dead sheep that's thrown to them at the end of the hunt. Nor, on one rare occasion, from biting down on a lamb, unfortunately

They'll catch and hold out of curiosity but would need more experience or training to kill. It is something outside their experience and they'd be cautious.

I think this is nonsense, or we would not see domestic pet dogs killing children and my friends would not regularly lose hens and not infrequently sheep, to walkers' dogs.

Why else were young hounds taken out cubbing to get them entered when fox hunting was legal?

To kill the cubs.

 

[Dry Rot]

Species that expect to be prayed upon have that as a strategy, but we were talking about foxes. Have you ever seen a fox being chased by a pack of hounds do it?

Foxes have evolved to be both prey and predator. There may be no species predating foxes in lowland England today but here in Scotland full grown cubs are still regularly taken by golden eagles and in the past they would have been taken by wolves, bears, lynx, and, yes, even other foxes. So, yes, they would have evolved the ability to "play dead" but I doubt if any animal does this in mid flight!

Why? It is natural for all dogs to bite things and most young dogs have to be trained NOT to bite.

Their initial bites will be experimental. A predator does not bite down hard on something it has met for the first time without a trial run, be it ever so brief. If a predator is injured, it can't hunt efficiently and will soon be dead.

The draghound packs that I hunt with have no problem biting down on the piece of dead sheep that's thrown to them at the end of the hunt.

Have they ever had meat or any form of food thrown to them before? Then, they have gone through that initial threshold period and know they had better get the meat before someone else does!

[quote[ Nor, on one rare occasion, from biting down on a lamb, unfortunately [/quote]

If the hunt are feeding them pieces of raw sheep meat, I am not surprised they are killing lambs. If I wanted to get a dog to kill sheep, that would be my first step! Are the sheep killers young hounds or old? I suspect young ones who are still experimenting.

I think this is nonsense, or we would not see domestic pet dogs killing children and my friends would not regularly lose hens and not infrequently sheep, to walkers' dogs.

.

I am prepared to bet that many of those child killing dogs have been teased or allowed to kill animals before they move onto killing children, i.e. that initial threshold of experimentation has been crossed.

I think you may have been fed the public relations sanitised explanation of cub hunting! A major reason for cub hunting is to introduce young hounds to killing foxes so they become fixated on this prey. Predators prefer to specialise as they are then in less danger of being injured and become efficient in that mode of hunting. We make use of this trait when training dogs.

In my view, the video was genuine. A young fox which had never experienced hounds before was awakened from where it was sleeping and was chopped by a few inexperienced hounds. The hounds gave it a good mouthing but without biting hard. The fox went into "play dead" mode and was then "rescued" by a very foolish and overly dramatic woman. End of story.

 

[cptrayes]

I think you live in cloud cuckoo land with regard to dog behaviour, among other things seriously suggesting that a dog has to be trained to eat sheep or bite children. Laughable, just as good as some of the nonsense higher up the thread.

Do you live in sheep country? Are you aware of how many sheep are savaged by perfectly ordinary family dogs? Or in the last case my friend had, a fellow farmer's border collie that in theory had been trained not to bite sheep?

I think you may have been fed the public relations sanitised explanation of cub hunting! A major reason for cub hunting is to introduce young hounds to killing foxes so they become fixated on this prey. Predators prefer to specialise as they are then in less danger of being injured and become efficient in that mode of hunting. We make use of this trait when training dogs.

I have not been "fed" any version of cub hunting. I have done it and became disgusted by it. Explain to me how penning young foxes into a wood and putting in a pack of dogs teaches the hounds to distinguish the fox from the mulititude of other mammals and birds also trapped in that covert by the riders making noises to scare them into staying inside it? Dogs like to kill. Especially those bred and kept in a pack.

 

[Dry Rot]

I think you live in cloud cuckoo land with regard to dog behaviour, among other things seriously suggesting that a dog has to be trained to eat sheep or bite children. Laughable, just as good as some of the nonsense higher up the thread.

Do you live in sheep country? Are you aware of how many sheep are savaged by perfectly ordinary family dogs? Or in the last case my friend had, a fellow farmer's border collie that in theory had been trained not to bite sheep?





I have not been "fed" any version of cub hunting. I have done it and became disgusted by it. Explain to me how penning young foxes into a wood and putting in a pack of dogs teaches the hounds to distinguish the fox from the mulititude of other mammals and birds also trapped in that covert by the riders making noises to scare them into staying inside it? Dogs like to kill. Especially those bred and kept in a pack.

Well then, you know it all, don't you?

And all without the necessity of that boring old thing called experience!