PSD
Well-Known Member
Lots of horses don't actually need a good quality feed though hence supplementing.
agreed. I only give mine the pink mash to get the supplements down her, and it’s good for the digestive system so win win ?
Lots of horses don't actually need a good quality feed though hence supplementing.
Did you look at the 'Other Nutrients' tab?That is interesting but I can't see some of the micro minerals - am I just being stoopid?!
i get your point. Yet we have to consider the soil mineral profile of decades ago to now....acidic NPK wasn’t the ‘main’ fertiliser for hay fields - the hays were all mixed species low calorie hay - today, certainly in a country where cow farming is dominant you have to really search for hay that isn’t loaded with high sugar ryegrass.
The soil balance has changed and the species of grass being sown for grazing and hay fields have all changed.
Ryegrass dominates the irish hay feed and grazing market. Timothy here is a rare as rocking horse shoite!
So in the very least we balance the most affected minerals lacking - which now is magnesium out if the macro minerals and zinc/copper for the micro.
Wheat Bran is excellent for vitamin E and its a shame its not used moreso in the feed industry anymore.
I tried forageplus minerals but wasnt impressed with the price per kilo which mostly was just mag ox and sodium. I can get those minerals FAR cheaper elsewhere and really just want a good micro mineral balancer with enough copper/zinc etc and decent other minerals.
The one thing most companies add is salt/sodium to their mineral mixes, and that degrades all other minerals and shouldnt be added, ideally. Try finding one without though!!
When i get time im going to mix my own, without salt, with enough of what’s lacking in todays soil profiles and forage - so im not endlessly adding x,y,z to a balancer that never ever are ideal.
I also tried formula for feet and to be honest, no change in my horses feet - was going through terrible white line issues at the time, which ended up needing more copper,zinc and mag to the diet to resolve, so i ditched the ‘balancers’ and just bought the minerals separately.
For the price they are, most have a rubbish tiny dose per day dose - they give the amount per kilo to make it seem like its loaded, but divide it down per dose and you’ll find cheaper bagged feeds generally provide similar nutrients.
im now trying equimins advance complete pellets as they use the most bio-digestible forms of the minerals and vitamins and the dosages of them are good Compared to others. Except for magnesium. That still needs to be added. but i dont mind that, because i dont want to be spending 20+quid a kilo for a balancer thats mostly mag ox and sodium like forageplus.
In fact, this thread has given me an idea - if we all were to chip in with our research of what we would ideally want in a mineral balancer and what dosage - we could end up compiling a HHO IDEAL mineral balancer!
Lots of horses don't actually need a good quality feed though hence supplementing.
Did you look at the 'Other Nutrients' tab?
Deleted due to duplicated postLots of horses don't actually need a good quality feed though hence supplementing.
I've never used the booklet, just the website. I think it would be more difficult if you have really high levels of iron - mine are quite high but I just make sure there's no additional iron coming from the feed. I'm not sure about counteracting it as opposed to not adding to it - the NRC guide wouldn't help with that, they are just giving recommended levels. The Eleanor Kellon course was very popular a few years ago for the more complex interactions, I don't know if it's still around/recommended?Ah, I have downloaded the booklet in entirety but can't quite see what you mean so I will go back to the original link thanks! ETA - Found it!! But I still can't work out for myself how to balance against/understand the impact of iron etc. I will do more reading!!
(Off topic sorry) I have an unopened bag of Alleviate-C which I don’t need. If you still use it I can sell it to you discounted from the CHH price. i can send photos
Hmm you have a point there. I watched the webinar on gastric ulcers. All very useful and interesting but at the end, pushing their Science Supplements. Still, if you can filter out the sales stuff then they do give some useful info.I don't trust him not to be doing a sales pitch lol.
I tried forageplus minerals but wasnt impressed with the price per kilo which mostly was just mag ox and sodium. I can get those minerals FAR cheaper elsewhere and really just want a good micro mineral balancer with enough copper/zinc etc and decent other minerals.
I guess maybe you have not heard of Science SupplementsDavid Marlin is a researcher though, he doesn't work for a specific company so presumably has nothing to 'push' other than evidence-based information.
The very first Science Supplements products were the brainchild of Dr David Marlin, a scientist with 25 years’ experience in the horse industry who has worked with the FEI, IOC and as a consultant to the British Equestrian Teams since 1994.
Author of books and over 200 scientific papers Dr Marlin developed these products to fulfil the need of his professional clients for quality supplements, containing high grade, clinically proven ingredients that work.
David Marlin is a researcher though, he doesn't work for a specific company so presumably has nothing to 'push' other than evidence-based information.
https://www.sciencesupplements.co.uk/david_marlinDavid Marlin is a researcher though, he doesn't work for a specific company so presumably has nothing to 'push' other than evidence-based information.
If you wouldn’t mind sharing your spreadsheet that would be great!Not sure where you get that from, their basic winter balancer provides
Each 100 grams contains:
28.89 grams of micronised linseed
10 grams lysine
5 grams phosphorous (mono-sodium phosphate)
12 grams magnesium (magnesium oxide)
400 mg copper (bioplex)
1200mg zinc (bioplex)
2mg iodine (calcium iodate)
1 mg selenium (yeast)
5 grams salt
2000 iu vitamin E oil
In fact I know some independent nutritionists don't recommend it because it is higher than the RDA of Copper and Zinc.
I did an Excel comparison some years back , I might share it if it's not too out of date. I had Equivita, Forageplus and Progressive Earth Interestingly the main forageplus and progressive earth ones were almost identical in proportions. The key difference was the recommended dose which was double in the case of forageplus. If you adjusted for this they were about the same pirce.
Since then they both have added extra products and versions. The PE Pro Balance strikes me as a good budget option as it uses sulphate/oxide forms of copper and zinc which are much cheaper than the bioplex and are less bulky so may be easier to get into fussy horses.
Not sure where you get that from, their basic winter balancer provides
Each 100 grams contains:
28.89 grams of micronised linseed
10 grams lysine
5 grams phosphorous (mono-sodium phosphate)
12 grams magnesium (magnesium oxide)
400 mg copper (bioplex)
1200mg zinc (bioplex)
2mg iodine (calcium iodate)
1 mg selenium (yeast)
5 grams salt
2000 iu vitamin E oil
In fact I know some independent nutritionists don't recommend it because it is higher than the RDA of Copper and Zinc.
I did an Excel comparison some years back , I might share it if it's not too out of date. I had Equivita, Forageplus and Progressive Earth Interestingly the main forageplus and progressive earth ones were almost identical in proportions. The key difference was the recommended dose which was double in the case of forageplus. If you adjusted for this they were about the same pirce.
Since then they both have added extra products and versions. The PE Pro Balance strikes me as a good budget option as it uses sulphate/oxide forms of copper and zinc which are much cheaper than the bioplex and are less bulky so may be easier to get into fussy horses.
If you wouldn’t mind sharing your spreadsheet that would be great!
Oh, I didn't know that! I thought he was still lecturing/researching. Every day's a school day.lol he most definitely does work for a specific company, I wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise. I have issues with some of his science and evidence base too.
The above forage plus dosages refer to elemental values of the nutrient, not the actual feed grams in weight, as stated on their site.
The above values come to around 65grams. So there’s 35grams in a dose of 100grams per day for the average horse which is a ‘nutritional void’. That’s a third of the dose that delivers nothing.
.
Just looking to pick all your wonderful brains about what supplements you all feed. ... So my question what does everyone else give and is it worth getting something cheaper?
But at a basic level that's what I care about. If I buy a product I want to know how much it delivers in the recommended daily dose and the effective cost per day. You have some filler to take it up to an even scoop. That's why I did the spreadsheet though it's out of date now.
So assuming the fp price per day is 1.10, that delivers 1200mg zinc, if I look at the current PE pro balance that works out at 70p per day on a suggested dose of 75g per day but provides 900mg zinc so they start to look pretty similar.
I actually don't like it when companies put in weight or percentage because then I have to work out the effective dose.
Agree about not necessarily wanting to feed everything in it. That' why I make up my own. My forage is low in phosphorous so in theory I need it but I feed enough Copra that provides it so don't want to double up. But that's the difference between feeding a pre mix to a bespoke blend.
However I don't save much by making my own, I'm not in a position to buy and store bulk minerals and end up buying a a few kilos at a time. By the time you add in postage and bulk savings from buying a premix as there are often offers but never on straights, it doesn't save much. If I buy straight zinc then is works out at 17p per day to feed the fp dosage and that's before factoring in postage so I doubt I'm much under a pound a day and that's not as many ingredients.