Warmbloods

[sport horse]

I currently have:

1 x 17.3 27 year old warmblood. Had a good amateur sport career and was ridden by someone who had complety lost their nerve and would not even canter. They ended up riding him at all paces over local national trust 1000 acre parkland. Field sound still.
1 x 16.3 24 year old Selle Francais grade B show jumper - still field sound
1 x 16.2 24 year old warmblood who jumped at international level and is still 100% sound
1 x 16.1 19 year old warmblood - a little stiff but still in quiet work
1 x 16.2 18 year old warmblood - still show jumping at affiliated level

Other than the SF they are all homebred and have had good, high level, sport careers and have only needed vet intervention as a result of accidents

 

[milliepops]

QUOTE="ThreeWBs, post: 14780703, member: 127795"]I have two[/u] WB's and adore them both.

?

I assumed TWBs has lost one since creating that username?

 

[LEC]

I am going to be completely pedantic here but a ID x TB is a warmblood. It annoys me SO MUCH that people don’t learn that.

What you might not like are continental bloodlines which is fine. They are bred to do a different job than go hunting and be a riding horse on the whole, though there are some German stud books exclusively round this purpose.

I hate this type of thread as everyone jumps in with their own personal experience when hundreds of thousands of horses are born each year. I personally loathe ID x as find them a bit thick, not that athletic and piggy, see there, I have just generalised on my own experiences ?. If you crossed a Master Imp with a Cruising you would have a TIH and it would probably be a very athletic horse who only a pro could get any sense out of so despite no continental lines in that breeding it would still be a likely nightmare.

As for longevity, I am not convinced anything has changed in this area. We perhaps don’t manage them as well as we have these increasingly athletic horses to jump 2ft and be socked in the mouth. 2ft never used to exist as a jumping height unless you were 10 years old and under…. Plus we didn’t have the vet tech we have now.

 

[Birker2020]

I could go on and on too since there are so many here. However, I found this interesting:

"He turned out to be a congenital wobbler and I was told when that was diagnosed that the floating trot of many of the big movers is because they are wobbler and don't know where their back feet are, so stay in the air longer at each stride to figure it out."

I wonder if there is any more info out there on that. I've not heard that before, but I am intrigued. I know a big WB who is, IMO, nuero and he definitely doesn't know where his back feet are at all times. He's a very slow moving horse and also has a fair amount of airtime (not in an energetic, strong, springy sort of way, if that makes sense).

In respect of paces I went on a bridle rides holiday many years ago and the stop for the night was a B&B. They were hosting a number of people one of whom was a journalist from H&H magazine. We had a barbeque and were chatting in general and the journalist was asking about our horses. My friend said about her hackney cross horse and journalist said she'd love to walk down to the paddock that was provided for guests horses to see our horses. She particuarly like hackneys because of their paces. So after our meal we walked down to the paddock and I called my horse (whom I later found was a wobbler) and he came trotting up the field and she said "I can see which one is the hackney" as he used to lift his front legs particuarly high. In the latter stages of the disease he also trembled the front legs as well as having three ataxic episodes which resulted in a hospital visit and pts. In between ataxic episodes he was like a normal horse, we used to compete BSJA Discovery level before he was diagnosed. He also used to have a bunny hop canter which used to throw you up and out of the saddle and was totally different to a disunited which throws you sidewards. That was remedied by stopping, reining back and going straight into canter, we now think that by doing that, it must have freed up his neck a little.

Had a conversation with this chap who wrote the attached link in respect of my last horse who developed neck issues and also talked about my previous horse Rommy who was a Wobbler as mentioned above. He's a specialist in his field and is located in America, he carries out a number of the bagby basket operations for wobblers with a large percentage having a very good outcome. https://aaep.org/horsehealth/he-lame-or-he-neurologic-wobbler-syndrome

paragraph from said link:

9. Free exercise: If the patient is not severely affected then they are allowed to run free in a paddock. Horses with spinal cord abnormalities bunny hop with the hind legs at a canter, will often be on the incorrect lead behind, and will knuckle over behind when trying to stop. Mildly affected horses have a very impressive animated gait at the trot that usually makes dressage owners salivate.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I think WB's or anything that moves well can appear much more sound than they really are. My boy was one of them, he was so athletic that the vet said he has compensated for not being biomechanically right in more of a way than a more economical horse would/could. That's why neither of us were wholly surprised to find out upon x-ray that things were quite as catastrophic as they were, and I hold the guilt for not finding it out earlier every day. Even when he was PTS with a plethora of diagnoses, and some which we hadn't yet found I would imagine as we only looked so far before it wasn't worth investigating any further, I could have sold him as an all rounder horse and I don't think many people would have spotted much wrong - I only knew there was something significant as I knew him well and could spot the behavioural changes. He never looked correct behind, but he didn't look consistently lame for sure. A few very experienced people were doubtful when I finally decided for certain I wasn't happy and thought something was up.

He was never a surefooted horse either to be fair, so there could be an element of Birker's post present should I have looked that far, although it never affected him in a daily sense.

 

[Elno]

I am going to be completely pedantic here but a ID x TB is a warmblood. It annoys me SO MUCH that people don’t learn that.

What you might not like are continental bloodlines which is fine. They are bred to do a different job than go hunting and be a riding horse on the whole, though there are some German stud books exclusively round this purpose.

I hate this type of thread as everyone jumps in with their own personal experience when hundreds of thousands of horses are born each year. I personally loathe ID x as find them a bit thick, not that athletic and piggy, see there, I have just generalised on my own experiences ?. If you crossed a Master Imp with a Cruising you would have a TIH and it would probably be a very athletic horse who only a pro could get any sense out of so despite no continental lines in that breeding it would still be a likely nightmare.

As for longevity, I am not convinced anything has changed in this area. We perhaps don’t manage them as well as we have these increasingly athletic horses to jump 2ft and be socked in the mouth. 2ft never used to exist as a jumping height unless you were 10 years old and under…. Plus we didn’t have the vet tech we have now.

Of course you are correct, but I think I was more referring to warmbloods such as Holsteiner, Trakhener, Hanoveranner, Oldenburger, and the dutch, german, swedish ones- those mainly used for dressage and show jumping I guess. But of course you're right, an ISH is a warmblood.

Sorry if I offended you. I was just surprised that the general consensus in the ISH thread was against (continental) WB's.

 

[sport horse]

I am going to be completely pedantic here but a ID x TB is a warmblood. It annoys me SO MUCH that people don’t learn that.

What you might not like are continental bloodlines which is fine. They are bred to do a different job than go hunting and be a riding horse on the whole, though there are some German stud books exclusively round this purpose.

I hate this type of thread as everyone jumps in with their own personal experience when hundreds of thousands of horses are born each year. I personally loathe ID x as find them a bit thick, not that athletic and piggy, see there, I have just generalised on my own experiences ?. If you crossed a Master Imp with a Cruising you would have a TIH and it would probably be a very athletic horse who only a pro could get any sense out of so despite no continental lines in that breeding it would still be a likely nightmare.

As for longevity, I am not convinced anything has changed in this area. We perhaps don’t manage them as well as we have these increasingly athletic horses to jump 2ft and be socked in the mouth. 2ft never used to exist as a jumping height unless you were 10 years old and under…. Plus we didn’t have the vet tech we have now.

Thank you for saying what I was trying to skirt around and be polite! I used to breed ID xTB and they were the most difficult horses I have ever had to deal with - to take one out of the field of youngsters, you had to empty the field, barn them and select the one you wanted and return the rest to the field. Nowadays I only have warmbloods and I can go to the field and choose whichever one I want and it will leave its friends, lead on a headcollar and rope across two other fields to get to the yard. Same farm, same handlers, same routine.

I am a totally ID free zone nowadays!!

 

[Elno]

Thank you for saying what I was trying to skirt around and be polite! I used to breed ID xTB and they were the most difficult horses I have ever had to deal with - to take one out of the field of youngsters, you had to empty the field, barn them and select the one you wanted and return the rest to the field. Nowadays I only have warmbloods and I can go to the field and choose whichever one I want and it will leave its friends, lead on a headcollar and rope across two other fields to get to the yard. Same farm, same handlers, same routine.

I am a totally ID free zone nowadays!!

Like I wrote in the other thread- my yard mate had an traditional ISH. Not a pleasent horse in most ways. Though of course that was the only ISH I have come across so I can't generalize. On the other hand I've come across many other warmbloods such as dutch, swedish and to a lesser degree german- and found them for the most part be terrific riding horses, and for the most part both sane in the head and sound in the body. My current one is a SWB and he has on several occasions made me cry- tears of joy that is, he is the most perfect, most level headed horse I've come across with a lovely personality. My only regret is that I didn't buy him sooner since he's been at my yard for more than four years. He is 20 and I wish with all my heart that I will be able to keep him sound and alive (and hopefully rideable) for at least a couple more years.

 

[windand rain]

to be pedantic most horsses are warmbloods as most riding horses have a mix of hot and cold blood Welsh cobs being the most obvious ones

 

[Cortez]

I'm coming at this from multiple angles. I'm Irish, old enough to have grown up with traditional Irish horses, used to breed Trakehners (not in Ireland, obvs), and competed on mostly WB horses. I now have exclusively Spanish/Iberian/Baroque-type horses. Each of these types of horse is designed and bred for different jobs, only one of them (hint: the Irish one) encompasses the British version of leisure riding. I have no use for anything other than a Spanish/Baroque horse these days, and would firmly be in the Horses-For-Courses camp. There is nothing inherently "wrong" with Warmbloods, or ISH's, but I wouldn't take either as a gift these days.

P.S. I don't know of a single sportshorse breeder who is specifically breeding leisure/amateur horses.

 

[Auslander]

The soundest horse I ever had was Aussie, who was 17.3hh and a good old fashioned type of warmblood. He was by Into the West (KWPN) who was by Ramiro Z (Holstein), out of Francaise (KWPN). Never had a days lameness in his life - it was colic that did for him.

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

I’ve got two warmbloods from show-jumping lines one a BWB (26yrs) 16.1 and one a KWPN (12yrs) 16.2 and you couldn’t get two nicer easy horses to handle in every way. (Aside from their separation anxiety over each other) They are by far the best behaved horses on the yard. No barging off like the ID no walking over the top of you like the cob. No biting like the Arab.

Both are all-rounders who hack for miles, do all RC stuff, Le Trec, dressage, showing etc. but I do admit they can be a little challenging to ride at times my oldie has a buck in him and the younger a bit of a jib and spin but not excessively so. They both have some physical issues I manage through schooling and physio but so do the aforementioned types.

When I last looked for a horse I thought I should go for a lower key model as I’m now 51 and tried out a number of Irish types. They were horrible to ride, stiff, badly / unschooled, nappy and generally uncomfortable although I’m not saying all are like that just that it was my experience. I ended up with my KWPN ex SJ because he was what I was used to riding.

I must admit I get a bit annoyed at the derogatory depictions of continental WB and especially the term “dumb-blood” as it’s just not true.

 

[sportsmansB]

I have an irish sport horse - snippit of his breeding below - he's basically a warmblood with extra TB, but he's on a green book. We are a bit suspicious maybe of the 'foreign' warmbloods in Ireland, but most of our ISH, except the TIH, have WB in them somewhere. I had a TIH - she was by a full TB stallion & out of a cruising mare, and while sharp and on her game to ride, she was definitely less suspicious of the world than most of the foreign WB I have come across. They are regularly described around these parts as 'cauld auld b*****ds' due to general lack of enthusiasm for the first time over a ditch or into water or spooking at the same stupid thing every time. But sure we can pidgeon hole anything, and there will always be exceptions to every generalisation!

I definitely would say, if you are looking for a warmblood, don't ignore anything on an irish book as so many of them have plenty of warmblood now. We've basically adopted a few as our own (like Touchdown, my guys sire!)
And equally if you are looking something irish, don't expect that a green book means they are...

 

[LEC]

Sorry if I offended you. I was just surprised that the general consensus in the ISH thread was against (continental) WB's.

you can’t offend me on this forum. No point coming on here and getting offended discussing opinions with strangers! Everyone has a viewpoint, you just have to work out whose is valid and whose is not!

 

[Regandal]

If you crossed a Master Imp with a Cruising you would have a TIH and it would probably be a very athletic horse who only a pro could get any sense out of so despite no continental lines in that breeding it would still be a likely nightmare.

Amen to that. My horse is 2nd generation Master Imp and Clover Hill bloodlines. Bred to event but broke down in training. He makes life ‘interesting’.

 

[stangs]

I know two veteran Dutch WBs who are perfectly sound. But that’s survivor’s bias - everyone else I know with a young WB has dealt with multiple lameness issues.

Realistically, I think poor health is to be expected when horses are bred for competitive ability > soundness, have such price tags attached to them that they are wrapped up in bubble wrap from a young age, and are broken in and competed young. Then they go on to generally have more intense lifestyles than your common cob - so it’s no wonder a good percentage break. But the same happens with AQH across the pond and racing TBs worldwide.

As for personality/rideability, I think all horses, regardless of breed, are great in their own ways

 

[monte1]

I have a warmblood yearling who is from Ramiro Z and Samber lines, so quite old style breeding, i am told ? I entered him in the eventing section of the British Breeding Futurity last year and he was awarded gold status- (which i was over the moon about !)
I expect him to make about 16.1hh he is built nicely and does move very well but not overly extravagant, he has a super temperament and attitude to life - so far !
I also have a 11 year old ISH who can be a real worrier and spookier and sillier about little things than the yearling at times!

Yearling is my first ever "proper" warmblood and I bred him from a lovely friends super mare
I have another 3 years to go before I can ride him, so we shall see what happens long term as I guess you never know with horses
but at the moment i am enjoying the journey

 

[milliepops]

I have a warmblood yearling who is from Ramiro Z and Samber lines, so quite old style breeding, i am told ? I entered him in the eventing section of the British Breeding Futurity last year and he was awarded gold status- (which i was over the moon about !)
I expect him to make about 16.1hh he is built nicely and does move very well but not overly extravagant, he has a super temperament and attitude to life - so far !
I also have a 11 year old ISH who can be a real worrier and spookier and sillier about little things than the yearling at times!

Yearling is my first ever "proper" warmblood and I bred him from a lovely friends super mare
I have another 3 years to go before I can ride him, so we shall see what happens long term as I guess you never know with horses
but at the moment i am enjoying the journey

aww I didn't know yours had Samber. mine does too.

 

[monte1]

aww I didn't know yours had Samber. mine does too.

yes on the Sires side

 

[ycbm]

I assumed TWBs has lost one since creating that username?

I thought she would have written about how the third one was lost if that was the case, given the subject of the thread. I apologise if I caused any upset.
.

 

[lannerch]

The soundest horse I have ever owned so far was a Warmblood , my ID/TB had to be retired at an early age due to osteoarthritis. I currently own a Warmblood that I wouldn’t swop for the world.
No Warmbloods are not going out of fashion.

 

[Squeak]

The soundest horse I ever had was Aussie, who was 17.3hh and a good old fashioned type of warmblood. He was by Into the West (KWPN) who was by Ramiro Z (Holstein), out of Francaise (KWPN). Never had a days lameness in his life - it was colic that did for him.

The soundest horse I've known was a 16.3 WB by Ramiro Z, big movement, evented for years at 90/100 and went to Badminton Grassroots at 22 without needing any joint injections or anything.

 

[Mule]

Someone I know has recently bought a Hannoverian. The strange thing is that she's a finer build than her thoroughbred. Yet the warmblood has only 36% thoroughbred. How can a warmblood with so little blood be more fine boned than a thoroughbred?