WARNING! - KEP riding hat safety - please open

[ycbm]

As far as contacting Mrs. Andrea Smith, we would like to all of you know how that as soon as we came to know about the incident, we contacted Mrs. Smith writing to her on Facebook, since we had no faster way of getting in touch with her. She replied nicely and openly to us on Equi Med Ag Ltd page and she also told us she would call us. We told her that we were glad to have a chance to talk to her. When she called the person who answered the phone had not been informed about this issue and didn't know who she was. She thus received the standard answer, including the request to provide photos via the retailer when she had bought the helmet. We usually ask our customers to at least see the photos, so that we can see what the issue is. Of course in Mrs. Smith's case, the helmet cannot be repaired.
As soon as we realized that she had called and spoken to an uniformed person, understanding that she had assumed that the standard answer had been given to her by someone who was instead informed of the facts, we tried to get in touch with her by writing her a private message on Facebook, but receiving no answer. So we wrote on the Equi Med Ag Ltd Facebook page asking them to let her know we were trying to contact her and to please ask her to call again or leave us her contacts.
In the meantime our local distributors and retailers were given her email and number, so communications will now be direct and clear.

We surely stand behind our helmets and the protection they offer. Again we repeat that a part from the words that we could post in order to explain everything, homologations speak for themselves. All of you are aknowledged people who can appreciate the importance of the most severe safety standards on an international basis. We are sure you all understand the importance of wearing a good quality helmet when riding, no matter the brand. This is the important part. We are committed into producing the best helmets we can, and we shall continue to be do this with an enthusiastic and focused attitude.

We wish you all safe riding.

You need t to get off this forum or get a proper PR professional to handle this. I have rarely seen a company of your supposed stature manage a customer complaint so badly. You have created a legion of people, now including me, who will never buy one of your hats.


Regarding the wonderful testimonials, can you please let potential buyers know how they can tell which of your hats will fall apart, and which will save the riders life, and then they can avoid buying the ones that might let them get brain damage?



PS a riding fall is not like a motorcycle fall or other sporting incident or car crumple zone. It is simply NEVER correct that a riding hat fall to pieces, since horses often create repeat impacts for which the hat HAS to stay in one piece to offer any protection.

there is, quite simply no valid reason for that hat to look like that even if someone had taken a sledgehammer to it.

 

[Sheep]

I wonder what the response would have been if the OP had been seriously injured.

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

So glad you're relatively unharmed OP. I'm speechless after seeing the photos, thank goodness that it wasn't on the road or you didn't receive a secondary impact, goodness knows what would of happened then. I know one thing, I'm sticking to my Gatehouse HS1s now, however the KEP hats weren't to my 'taste' anyway.

KEP Italia, you're making fools out of yourselves by coming onto a public forum posting all these 'reviews', all it's doing is making you look incredibly unprofessional. We cannot see the helmet after the fall in the video link you provided, so that doesn't help you either. I'm sorry, but you just seem to be denying everything the OP says, even calling her a liar, which is simply unacceptable. What's to say you aren't lying? If this were a bridle, or whip (that had fallen to pieces), I'd walk away from this thread thinking everybody was making a fuss out of nothing. But this isn't, it's a hat, a hat that is meant to protect your head & brain from serious (often fatal) injures, and in this case your helmet failed to do so. The OP had a very lucky escape, and she's doing the right thing by taking it further, as opposed to walking away and carrying on with life. It makes me sick to think of the outcome had she been on a road, or kicked. And to even think of repairing it - I'm lost for words.

Furthermore, if this is the way that you deal with 'feedback' that isn't positive, I'll be sure warn everybody I know that you're to be avoided, for faulty hats & service.

 

[Kat]

Good grief!

Thank you Mozartk for posting. The pictures are horrific I would not expect a riding helmet to look like this after a fall unless it was an incredibly serious one involving crushing forces.

I do hope that trading standards investigate this matter.

It is making me wary of vented hats and I will certainly stick to a skull cap for high risk activities.

KEP - your response to this does your brand no favours and I will certainly not be considering your products in future.

 

[MozartK]

KEP, if you have decided you would actually like to speak with me directly, then please contact your UK distributor on Monday. She has a full set of pictures, my email address and I will now send her my telephone number. I followed procedure, as you advised and provided her with the relevant information, as apparently you will not deal with customers direct. So rather than try and contact me via Facebook or public forum, I suggest you also follow your procedure!

I also find your replies within the public domain upsetting to say the least! I do not need to defend myself on a public forum, the pictures speak for themselves. I posted this to show what happened to me and my hat during a fall. People can now make an informed decision as to whether they choose to put one of your hats on their heads. I know for sure, if I had seen these pictures, I would not have been wearing this hat. Whether the disintegration of the hat was intentional is a different matter.....I do not want to wear a hat that is not going to stay on my head!

 

[conniegirl]

By contrast when I sent a picture of my hat to CHAMPION they sent a lovely letter saying how glad they were that I was not badly hurt in such a horrific fall. They sent me a voucher for money off my next hat and they sent a courier for my damaged hat so they could examine the hat and use the data from it to make their hats even safer. Once they were finished with the hat it was destroyed by them so no one could get their hands on it and potentially use it.

And that was their response to a positive review for a £60 hat! That is how you do PR properly! Every hat I have bought since (and there have been around 10) has been a champion one

For a £400 hat I would expect far far better service and a professional company who bothers to respond in a timely an efficient manner, not one that accuses the consumer of lying.

Again KEP anyone including yourself could have written those reviews. You have yet to provide a link to genuine independant reviews.

I too have shared the photos on Facebook and my friends are suitably horrified (Op I hope you don't mind)

 

[ester]

That is more the sort of response I would expect - along the lines that whatever standards it has passed there is always the possibility of improvement by looking at real life situations. Most of us wouldn't actually expect a repair/replacement of a hat after a fall however pricey the hat as that is an expected cost of hitting the floor but champion's response with regards to examining the hat seems much more usual.

 

[MozartK]

By contrast when I sent a picture of my hat to CHAMPION they sent a lovely letter saying how glad they were that I was not badly hurt in such a horrific fall. They sent me a voucher for money off my next hat and they sent a courier for my damaged hat so they could examine the hat and use the data from it to make their hats even safer. Once they were finished with the hat it was destroyed by them so no one could get their hands on it and potentially use it.

And that was their response to a positive review for a £60 hat! That is how you do PR properly! Every hat I have bought since (and there have been around 10) has been a champion one

For a £400 hat I would expect far far better service and a professional company who bothers to respond in a timely an efficient manner, not one that accuses the consumer of lying.

Again KEP anyone including yourself could have written those reviews. You have yet to provide a link to genuine independant reviews.

I too have shared the photos on Facebook and my friends are suitably horrified (Op I hope you don't mind)

No problem, I don't mind at all.

 

[southerncomfort]

By contrast when I sent a picture of my hat to CHAMPION they sent a lovely letter saying how glad they were that I was not badly hurt in such a horrific fall. They sent me a voucher for money off my next hat and they sent a courier for my damaged hat so they could examine the hat and use the data from it to make their hats even safer. Once they were finished with the hat it was destroyed by them so no one could get their hands on it and potentially use it.

And that was their response to a positive review for a £60 hat! That is how you do PR properly! Every hat I have bought since (and there have been around 10) has been a champion one

For a £400 hat I would expect far far better service and a professional company who bothers to respond in a timely an efficient manner, not one that accuses the consumer of lying.

Again KEP anyone including yourself could have written those reviews. You have yet to provide a link to genuine independant reviews.

I too have shared the photos on Facebook and my friends are suitably horrified (Op I hope you don't mind)

I have to say that reading through this thread, the thought kept occurring to me that any genuine company that cares about the consumers who buy their (not cheap!) products would surely want to see the hat and conduct urgent tests to ascertain whether this was a one off failure of if they have a more serious issue to deal with.

I have to say that the response of 'well you aren't dead so you ought to be grateful' would be laughable if it weren't so shocking!

 

[Pebble101]

I don't understand what that proves in this instance?

I asked out of interest because I check hats at RC events. Some of the most expensive hats don't have the correct safety standards but people think that because they paid a lot for it then it should be OK. EN1384 is being withdrawn from next year for RC events.

 

[Pebble101]

Following from my previous post:

I assume this is the only label in the hat but there is nothing about PAS015 (or any other standards) and no kitemark is shown.

 

[ester]

Ah yes, I was just pointing out to the poster (vittora?) that what current KEP hats are rated to was not necessarily relevant to the hat in question as it is older.

 

[YorksG]

I would think that if any one employed to ride, uses one of these hats that the Health and Safety Executive may be interested, given that they would be investigating any serious injuries received while the person was in paid employment.....

 

[Tiddlypom]

Tbh, I'd never heard of KEP Italia hats before now. They're ugly things, aren't they, with their panel construction. IMHO they look like the sort of cheapie you might find on offer at a discount supermarket.

The reaction of KEP to this instance of hat failure is cavalier and appalling.

The hats seem to be robust enough though, when freshly manufactured, to somehow pass the relevant safety tests. I wonder if subsequently, over a period of time in normal usage, the adhesives which are used to glue the panels together are being degraded, thus compromising the rigidity of the hat in a fall. Or maybe the hats are degrading post manufacture in some other way?

Whatever the cause of the failures, I wouldn't trust KEP to make a thorough evaluation, that's for sure.

 

[GlamourDol]

Mozart, might be worth posting this on the BD forum too!

 

[soulfull]

I am appaulled at KEP response.

I am a medic at equine events and have obviously seen my share of accidents and have never seen a hat smash like that!!

I personally took a lump hammer to an old Charles Owen hat of mine and after 10 mins of hitting it while on a concrete floor I could still not see any structural damage so I do not understand how on earth any hat could fall apart like shown.

 

[Leo Walker]

I had a fall hard enough to shatter my spine. I dont think I landed head first, but there was definitely an impact. I was wearing a JTE hat, one of the ones with the plastic panels on the front. There were some scuff marks to the covering, but apart from that it looked good as new. I cut all the straps off and binned it. Theres no excuse for a hat falling apart!

 

[teapot]

Another who believes no hat should shatter like that on impact. Would love to know how the KEP polo helmet reacts to being hit with a mallet...

 

[Red-1]

I am astonished at the disintegration of the hat and also KEP's reply.

It is appalling that they seem to be questioning the circumstances of the accident without even seeing the hat, or speaking to the accident victim (other than a conversation with an "uninformed person" - the on who suggested repairing the helmet).

The idea that the hat must have been trodden on after the initial fall is funny, as it was still strapped round the OP's neck! Plus, I have had a Champion hat trodden on, and it remained resolutely intact!

I also once had a road accident where my horse was ar$e ended by a car, and we were flipped up in the air and skedaddled down the street, and I had long enough to wonder "What is that noise?" as I heard an incessant tapping noise, only to realise that it was my head bouncing long the road surface. The hat looked fine, and although I had bad whiplash and a headache I was fine too.

Not sure what would have happened if I had been wearing the KEP helmet...

I sent my hat to the Mark Davies charity for them to take it apart for research, then dispose of it.

The "testimonials" from KEP seem to be about Jockey Skulls, which presumably do not have a panel design.

I would also expect the company to have sent a courier immediately on seeing the photo, or have a British agent collect it, to see if indeed the glue that holds the panels has degraded, with the intention of a product recall.

I will not be buying a KEP helmet.

Glad you are OK OP, and am also so happy that your horse did not accidentally kick you once the hat had fallen apart.

 

[mtj]

I had genuinely been considering purchasing one of these hats.

Does anyone know if this hat, that has failed in my opinion, is the same construction as the current PAS015 model? I'm aware that foam degrades over time, but surprised by the shell.

Also pleased to see the OP has been left with no lasting injuries.

 

[EstherYoung]

I am astonished at the disintegration of the hat and also KEP's reply.

It is appalling that they seem to be questioning the circumstances of the accident without even seeing the hat, or speaking to the accident victim (other than a conversation with an "uninformed person" - the on who suggested repairing the helmet).

The idea that the hat must have been trodden on after the initial fall is funny, as it was still strapped round the OP's neck! Plus, I have had a Champion hat trodden on, and it remained resolutely intact!

I also once had a road accident where my horse was ar$e ended by a car, and we were flipped up in the air and skedaddled down the street, and I had long enough to wonder "What is that noise?" as I heard an incessant tapping noise, only to realise that it was my head bouncing long the road surface. The hat looked fine, and although I had bad whiplash and a headache I was fine too.

Not sure what would have happened if I had been wearing the KEP helmet...

I sent my hat to the Mark Davies charity for them to take it apart for research, then dispose of it.

The "testimonials" from KEP seem to be about Jockey Skulls, which presumably do not have a panel design.

I would also expect the company to have sent a courier immediately on seeing the photo, or have a British agent collect it, to see if indeed the glue that holds the panels has degraded, with the intention of a product recall.

I will not be buying a KEP helmet.

Glad you are OK OP, and am also so happy that your horse did not accidentally kick you once the hat had fallen apart.

^ This, 100%

The correct answer should have been 'get the hat back to us ASAP so that we can work out what the heck has happened to it'.

Horse & Hound, this might be something you want to follow up.....

 

[Shay]

Like others I hadn't heard of these hats so I googled them. It doesn't look like they meet the new standards - at least not according to the KEP website. I couldn't see any on their website which met PAS 015 - let alone the higher ratings. What a salutary lesson - glad you're OK OP.

 

[mtj]

Like others I hadn't heard of these hats so I googled them. It doesn't look like they meet the new standards - at least not according to the KEP website. I couldn't see any on their website which met PAS 015 - let alone the higher ratings. What a salutary lesson - glad you're OK OP.

The current models do meet the new standards including PAS015, hence my query regarding construction. I prefer to hack in a PA S015 helmet, and would love a properly vented version.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Taken from the KEP Italia website.

http://www.kepitalia.com/FRA/Plus/A...Titolo=GOOD INTENTIONS FOR THE NEW YEAR!

Fifth tip: CHECK YOUR HELMET AFTER FALLING
After a fall it is extremely important to check that the helmet isn’t damaged. If the helmet reports cracks of any entity or any other kind of damages, it must be replaced. It is important to know that if a helmet brakes after a fall, well: that helmet probably saved your life by absorbing the shock of the trauma. A broken helmet after a horse fall is thus a really good piece of news!

Well, there you have it. I'll stick with my Gatehouse hats, thanks very much.

 

[Sheep]

With this thread in mind, when my bf found an old GPA Pikeur hat earlier, I decided to try and smash it up. I was pleased to see that even though it is an old hat that has sustained falls, it took several very heavy blows with a metal hammer before I was able to inflict much visible damage on it, which to me says it should in theory have been able to withstand a secondary impact in the event of a fall. I know a hammer isn't the same as a hoof but I was putting a LOT of effort into it!

 

[googol]

Oh dear. So so embarrassed for KEP. Terrible PR especially when I. Sure a lot of people look for reviews on horsey things in forums like this. I for one will never buy a KEP and will definitely advise all my horsey friends and family to avoid.

Glad to hear the OP is relatively unharmed. She shouldn't have to go through this "stress" to make other horsey people aware of how unsafe their hats may be, but that is shame on KEP

Lol at sheep smashing up a hat, interesting tho!

 

[ycbm]

Taken from the KEP Italia website.

http://www.kepitalia.com/FRA/Plus/A...Titolo=GOOD INTENTIONS FOR THE NEW YEAR!

Fifth tip: CHECK YOUR HELMET AFTER FALLING
After a fall it is extremely important to check that the helmet isn’t damaged. If the helmet reports cracks of any entity or any other kind of damages, it must be replaced. It is important to know that if a helmet brakes after a fall, well: that helmet probably saved your life by absorbing the shock of the trauma. A broken helmet after a horse fall is thus a really good piece of news!

Well, there you have it. I'll stick with my Gatehouse hats, thanks very much.

Astonishing!

KEP appear to be completely unaware of falls where the rider's foot is caught in the stirrup and their head makes repeated impacts with the ground; rotational falls where the rider's head hits the ground and is then hit by the horse; falls where the rider is shot into a wall or fence and then also falls to the floor hitting their head a second time, or falls where the rider lands on the ground hitting their head and the horse then either treads on the rider's head or kicks the rider's head.

PAS015 or not, their helmets simply are not as safe as other manufacturers' helmets if they are making them to withstand only one impact.

 

[JDH01]

This is breathtaking and enforces my belief in my Patey, and before any one comments it has staid on and then gone back for a refurbishment when I have had a fall with impact.

 

[gnubee]

The somewhat cavalier line from KEP about it being good that the helmet broke rather than your head (with no acknowledgement that it would be a million times better if the helmet didn't break and continued to protect your head) is concerning and does suggest that they were aware that there was a reasonable chance the helmet would do this. This raises an interesting question about whether the barn/ pas 015 standards pass this hat because they only test for a single impact as for bike helmets rather than incorporating an understanding that in horse sports multiple impacts are common and whilst an initial impact may weaken a hat, if it shatters it then it shouldn't be fit for riding sport. Would be interesting to know what the test criteria are.

 

[Fuzzypuff]

The somewhat cavalier line from KEP about it being good that the helmet broke rather than your head (with no acknowledgement that it would be a million times better if the helmet didn't break and continued to protect your head) is concerning and does suggest that they were aware that there was a reasonable chance the helmet would do this. This raises an interesting question about whether the barn/ pas 015 standards pass this hat because they only test for a single impact as for bike helmets rather than incorporating an understanding that in horse sports multiple impacts are common and whilst an initial impact may weaken a hat, if it shatters it then it shouldn't be fit for riding sport. Would be interesting to know what the test criteria are.

Echo this, it is a bit worrying if the standards are for hats receiving a single impact as we know that's often not the way with horse riding accidents.

I'm also horrified by the KEP response on here, as mentioned above I think the sensible response would be to offer to take the hat and inspect it. Even if the hats are designed to fall apart on impact it is still possible that there was some degradation or error in manufacturing which caused this to happen far to easily, and I would expect the manufacturer to inspect the hat to make sure this isn't the case.

I will definitely not be buying a KEP hat in future!