ester
Not slacking multitasking
I can only find the full testing regime for the snell 2001 standard easily.
http://www.smf.org/standards/e2001/e01std#TESTING
http://www.smf.org/standards/e2001/e01std#TESTING
WARNING! - KEP riding hat safety - please open
- Thread starter MozartK
- Start date
Farma
Well-Known Member
I agree with this, had they handled this differently this would have died down ages ago, as it is the damage to their brand after this thread (which I see spread to facebook) is irreparable, I would never consider them after this! They could have offered to inspect and provided a free replacement which would have cost them a lot less in the long run that this thread now has!
MozartK
Well-Known Member
I have attached a couple of links which make for interesting reading. I can't get actual copies of either EN1384 or PAS015 testing standards unless I pay about £150, so this is the best I have managed to find so far. One thing is for sure.....the hat was meant to stay on my head!
http://satrappeguide.com/EN1384.php
Impact testing involves the dropping of the helmet onto a flat anvil and measuring acceleration/deceleration and then calculating the effect this would have on a human head (a slightly more detailed explanation is given in the document in the first link!). It does not mention whether breakage of the helmet causes a failed test, or whether the hat is dropped onto a specific area each time, or whether different areas of the hat are drop tested. I would be interested to know if the forehead/temple area at the front of the hat, just above the peak and to the side of the front panel was drop tested, as this is where my hat took the impact.
The second link is also very interesting. It shows where the issues are with EN1384 1996 and 2012 compared to other test procedures. Shock absorption and penetration standards for EN1384 are said to be low, so PAS015 should be more vigorous, so I wonder if it has multi drop zones on which the hat is drop tested? I am trying to get more info on PAS015. However, look at the section on side stability on page 3. I believe side stability is why my helmet failed and this document is basically flagging up side stability still being an issue, particularly in light-weight helmets and even suggests that the PAS015 standard is not sufficient to ensure good side stability. It basically says that light-weighting a helmet compromises side stability!
http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/poli...6_formal_objection_against_en_13842012_en.pdf
I have also attached a picture showing where my hat took the impact and where the damage on my hat was sustained and which parts fell off. The blue circle shows the area of impact. The red arrows show both panels falling out, the crack across the top centre of the main body, the left side of the peak detaching and also the chin strap breaking away on the left side. I think you will agree that my fall tested the side stability of my helmet?
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/MozartK/media/KEP hat damage description.jpg.html
http://satrappeguide.com/EN1384.php
Impact testing involves the dropping of the helmet onto a flat anvil and measuring acceleration/deceleration and then calculating the effect this would have on a human head (a slightly more detailed explanation is given in the document in the first link!). It does not mention whether breakage of the helmet causes a failed test, or whether the hat is dropped onto a specific area each time, or whether different areas of the hat are drop tested. I would be interested to know if the forehead/temple area at the front of the hat, just above the peak and to the side of the front panel was drop tested, as this is where my hat took the impact.
The second link is also very interesting. It shows where the issues are with EN1384 1996 and 2012 compared to other test procedures. Shock absorption and penetration standards for EN1384 are said to be low, so PAS015 should be more vigorous, so I wonder if it has multi drop zones on which the hat is drop tested? I am trying to get more info on PAS015. However, look at the section on side stability on page 3. I believe side stability is why my helmet failed and this document is basically flagging up side stability still being an issue, particularly in light-weight helmets and even suggests that the PAS015 standard is not sufficient to ensure good side stability. It basically says that light-weighting a helmet compromises side stability!
http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/poli...6_formal_objection_against_en_13842012_en.pdf
I have also attached a picture showing where my hat took the impact and where the damage on my hat was sustained and which parts fell off. The blue circle shows the area of impact. The red arrows show both panels falling out, the crack across the top centre of the main body, the left side of the peak detaching and also the chin strap breaking away on the left side. I think you will agree that my fall tested the side stability of my helmet?
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/MozartK/media/KEP hat damage description.jpg.html
MozartK
Well-Known Member
In fairness KEP told me to follow procedure and return the hat to the retailer/distributor to be returned to KEP for investigation. However, I was advised by Trading Standards to keep the hat, as they may want to inspect it themselves. Since there may be action by Trading Standards or others, I will follow instructions and keep the hat for now. Ideally, I would like an independent assessment of the hat and its performance, which would obviously not be the case if I returned the hat to KEP.
kamili
Well-Known Member
I'm rarely a user on this forum, but boy am I glad I came on today. I am absolutely shocked and sickened by the photos and not to mention the response from KEP. I too will add my name to the list and say I will never buy a KEP hat.
I was in an equestrian store several years ago and asked about the KEP hats. the store assistant I spoke to has been fully trained around hat safety and is aware of all the standards and research into their safety. She strongly advised me not to buy back then so I got a champion hat at the time. The store stated that they were no longer happy to stock KEP hats and were removing them from the shelves. I am so glad she did as I did not know why as she did not go into the full details, but just stated they are not safe, Ever since then I will not go near them. This must have been 3-4 years ago.
KEP should be ashamed for that disgusting and disgraceful response. I'm glad you are OK OP and I hope you recover quickly. I will never buy a KEP hat and will also recommend to my friends not to either.
I was in an equestrian store several years ago and asked about the KEP hats. the store assistant I spoke to has been fully trained around hat safety and is aware of all the standards and research into their safety. She strongly advised me not to buy back then so I got a champion hat at the time. The store stated that they were no longer happy to stock KEP hats and were removing them from the shelves. I am so glad she did as I did not know why as she did not go into the full details, but just stated they are not safe, Ever since then I will not go near them. This must have been 3-4 years ago.
KEP should be ashamed for that disgusting and disgraceful response. I'm glad you are OK OP and I hope you recover quickly. I will never buy a KEP hat and will also recommend to my friends not to either.
MozartK
Well-Known Member
Very interesting. Section E4 is impact testing and states that the hat is subject to 4 drops in 4 different places, which have to be on or above the test line (which I couldn't find). However, section E4.4 states that the tester can chose which area he would like to drop test, so long as it is on or above the test line. It also states that the tester must assess the hat and look for potential areas of weakness on which to perform the drop test. It also states that the helmets protective structures should remain intact during the test. So, to have a helmet designed to break up on impact does not comply with this particular standard. I really need to see PAS015!
Section E8 'Rigidity' is also interesting and is probably the test that addresses the side stability of the helmet.
If anyone knows how to get a copy of PAS015 or more information regarding testing to this standard, then please share!
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I think you have to purchase it
http://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030204553
Fwiw my cycle hemet - which people often say are more designed to come apart to absorb the impact is also SNELL tested, as cycle helmet testing is even more a minefield.
http://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030204553
Fwiw my cycle hemet - which people often say are more designed to come apart to absorb the impact is also SNELL tested, as cycle helmet testing is even more a minefield.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Its interesting that the testing procedure for the Snell 2001 standard is readily accessible, as according to the Gatehouse website 'Snell E2001 is the highest manufactured equestrian helmet standard in the world and includes a unique test that simulates a rider falling into a fence rail, or having a secondary hit from a horse's hoof.'
TheSylv007
Well-Known Member
Having looked at the photos it makes me question the design of the hats - surely having panels means you need joints which are inherently weak. I would always go for a solid, single piece hat which will always be much stronger than one which is in pieces which are stuck together. I've never much liked the design, they look like the front of a Nissan Qashqai!
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I guess as a not for profit foundation it has a slightly different view on these things.
http://www.satrappeguide.com/EN1384.php
the only official thing I can find! http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/poli...6_formal_objection_against_en_13842012_en.pdf
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teapot
Well-Known Member
Cor £65 to buy the pdf regarding the PAS015 testing!
I can only find that it's height testing (assume dropped from height), impact force, stability and crush resistance.
I can only find that it's height testing (assume dropped from height), impact force, stability and crush resistance.
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Kat_Bath
Well-Known Member
Just to say, I think the Facebook post by Faye (won't put surname just in case) is getting around. My mum shared it to my wall as she had seen it (she's not even horsey!) and was concerned I had one (I don't!). So it's getting some shares!
MozartK
Well-Known Member
Wow! That is good to hear!
CrazyMare
Well-Known Member
I think Faye is conniegirl who posted earlier about sharing to Facebook!
I had seen the price of these hats and dismissed them on that alone, but I will have expected tge hat to act as any other hat, not disintegrate!!!
I had seen the price of these hats and dismissed them on that alone, but I will have expected tge hat to act as any other hat, not disintegrate!!!
PorkChop
Well-Known Member
Maybe a stupid question - however are we sure that the poster "KEP Italia" is actually from the company?
It matters not with regards to the OP's situation and imo I think she has been treated appallingly.
It matters not with regards to the OP's situation and imo I think she has been treated appallingly.
MozartK
Well-Known Member
Yes, its the Managing Director. I spoke with her today and she basically reiterated everything that KEP have posted on here and also on Facebook. Rather than get into an argument, we agreed to disagree about the performance of the hat and whether it had saved my life, whether the horse had trod on me or whether I fell onto a rock or stone amongst the grass. I insisted the horse did not stand on or kick me and nor were there any rocks or large stones amongst the grass. I informed her again that I have reported the incident to Trading Standards and want an independent body to carry out testing/investigation. She accepted this and asked that I inform her of any testing to be carried out.
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
Even if you had smacked your head on a rock AND had a horse stand on your head I wouldnt expect the hat to fall apart like that. You saw the photo of my Champion Hat, it took me landing on my head on concrete, then the horse falling on top of me and then the horse standing on/kicking my head and was still mostly in one piece.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Frank walked around the yard with my gatehouse air rider stuck on his foot.... he only left an imprint mark on the inside..... and a mark on my bank balance 
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Absolutely this. I came off at speed on the road when the late chesnut git spooked and tanked off, and the only apparent damage to my Gatehouse skull was a scuffed velvet cover! Even though I spent a night in hospital with concussion and several hours of memory loss.
MozartK
Well-Known Member
Exactly. I explained that I was unhappy with the performance of the hat and even if the hat had disintegrated intentionally by absorbing impact, this is just not acceptable for hats designed for horse riding. Hence, I will be keeping the hat and taking the matter further with relevant bodies within the UK.
spotty_pony
...
This is awful! Glad you are ok OP! You ought to post this on Facebook to share it about on the Show Jumping pages to get everyone more aware!
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
I'm another who's had a hoof V riding hat incident (with my head inside the hat) and my hat (Charles Owen) did not fall apart. In fact I got back on the horse and rode home in it with a really painful shoulder and a slight headache and only took the hat off to inspect once home. The hat had bad damage to the velvet cover and a big scuff and small dent on the hat itself under the torn velvet. The inside of the hat showed no damage and if I had been unlucky and fallen off again on the way home, it would still have offered some protection. It was of course replaced after that incident.
wyrdsister
Well-Known Member
Yikes! Just caught up with this. Very glad you're okay, OP! The disintegration of that KEP hat is terrifying. I got bronced off by a pony years ago, at speed, on a road, & thrown over the roof of an oncoming car. Never hit the ground so hard before in my life! Hat I was wearing was one of the ones with the cartoon ponies in, I've forgotten the make now. Champion? It was badly scraped and a bit chipped on the surface, but structurally still sound, thank goodness. My back protector was the same. I got away with whiplash & a mild concussion. Can't imagine I'd have been so lucky if any of my kit collapsed on impact...
Keep us updated on your progress, please?
Keep us updated on your progress, please?
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
While googling for a hat with cartoon horses, I found these photos which i thought were interesting to compare with the KEP ones.
Thread - http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/s...lmet-EDIT-Now-with-pics-of-smashed-old-helmet!
ETA- an interesting post from the thread (I'd love to know if they've seen anything as bad as the KEP on this thread).
Thread - http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/s...lmet-EDIT-Now-with-pics-of-smashed-old-helmet!
ETA- an interesting post from the thread (I'd love to know if they've seen anything as bad as the KEP on this thread).
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ester
Not slacking multitasking
It is interesting to note that comments associated with any cycle helmets that ended in more than one piece ascertain that said helmet has failed, as once they split they are no longer transferring the force around the whole head as they should. Smaller cracks around the foam shows this has happened, but not further disintegration.
Faracat I had to google to find out what that hat should have looked like!
Faracat I had to google to find out what that hat should have looked like!
PolarSkye
Well-Known Member
£600+ for a hat? If I'm paying that much for protective head gear, I expect it to still be in one piece after just one impact AND come with it's own personal medic!
P
P
wyrdsister
Well-Known Member
Yes, that's it, Faracat. Charles Owen. Thank you!
Also, word, Polar Skye!
Also, word, Polar Skye!
teapot
Well-Known Member
Actually given someone has mentioned the forum, OP, it might be worth posting on the COTH forum a) with this thread and b) asking if anyone has ever seen damage like it.
Getting a US perspective and even more awareness will help your cause. That hat is a mess BUT it's actually still in better nick than your's and that respective fall sounds a lot worse.
Getting a US perspective and even more awareness will help your cause. That hat is a mess BUT it's actually still in better nick than your's and that respective fall sounds a lot worse.
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maccachic
Well-Known Member
The FB post made it to New Zealand
This is a pretty good example of how not to do PR for companies Id say.
However I have seen a GPA whos panels had fallen off I think the modern design may not be the best and Im sticking with more traditional styles. I've just got a new Champion.
This is a pretty good example of how not to do PR for companies Id say.
However I have seen a GPA whos panels had fallen off I think the modern design may not be the best and Im sticking with more traditional styles. I've just got a new Champion.