WARNING! - KEP riding hat safety - please open

[teapot]

Ooooo 'KEP Italia have gone grey'.

That screenshot is interesting regarding 'if your helmet breaks it has done its job'. Well, I still wouldn't breaking to the extent of the op's.

 

[sarahann1]

Wow, the response from KEP is pretty poor! How to fail miserably at customer service.

I hit my head coming off a few years ago, smacking the back of my head hard enough, on a sandy forest track, to make my nose bleed, the one and only time I've ever had one. I basically flew, at considerable speed, out the side door, my hat remained fully intact and I rode home still wearing it. I continued to wear it for a good while after, before I knew how important it is to get a new one after a fall, I fell off another couple of times wearing it, it still never fell apart. It was a cheap and cheerful £20 (it was about 14yrs ago) Charles Owen job, brilliant hats.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Just out of interest (I'm being nosey) can someone post what is being shared on Facebook RE this incident (I'm not on FB)?

 

[ester]

It appears to have been removed from Facebook. It was just a description of the fall, pictures of the hat and pointing out KEP's poor response. No email reply yet.

 

[ChwaraeTeg]

There is a link on KEP Italia facebook page

 

[ester]

https://www.facebook.com/FayeJaumotte/posts/10101309611650161?pnref=story

This was the original link

 

[ester]

I don't see any links on KEP's main or UK pages

 

[ChwaraeTeg]

I do not see your link Ester. It does not allow... Here is the link I referred to ... https://www.facebook.com/kepitaliahats?fref=ts

10 people like this.

Becky Blyton Hmmm, worrying http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php...
Pictures WARNING! - KEP riding hat safety - please open
After paying a substantial amount of money for my beloved KEP riding hat, I would have liked to have though my head was well protected. How wrong could I be!!! These pictures show what happened to my hat after my horse stumbled trotting on a grassy field, unseating me face first into the grass. As y…
HORSEANDHOUND.CO.UK
Like · Reply · 1 · 3 July at 18:31

Issy Green Helen Fletcher this is it!
Like · Reply · 20 hrs

 

[ester]

No you won't see my link because that was the original Facebook post that has been taken down by the author/Facebook

I had to like the page to see the comments on KEP's page - shouldn't think that will stay long.

 

[ChwaraeTeg]

ah- I see Thanks

 

[mtj]

I would also like to know how the aged hat in this incident (discontinued model and EN standard, not the current PAS015 version) compares in construction to the current model. Can we really compare the 2?

There was a scandal some years ago regarding spot on wormer killing someone's cats. When it was properly investigated it turned out that the medication was both out of date and had been stored on a sunny windowsill.....

We are regularly warned not to keep our helmets in cars. Have to wonder if the storage of the op's hat prior to purchase may have contributed to this catastrophic failure.

On a more positive note, hopefully this has made many of us check the manufactured date on our helmets. My made in 2010 skull cap was binned today (minus straps).

 

[ester]

I have made a specific enquiry on the relevance of the hats age, which would not really be the fault of either the OP or the manufacturer but the retailer's stock rotation.

 

[Tiddlypom]

We are regularly warned not to keep our helmets in cars. Have to wonder if the storage of the op's hat prior to purchase may have contributed to this catastrophic failure.

If the hat has been allowed to get over hot at any time since manufacture, then the adhesives that glue the panels together could well have become less effective. It certainly makes one query how much less robust a hat with glued in ventilation panels is than a one piece hat like a jockey skull. Though other manufacturers' ventilated hats seem to to cope.

 

[teapot]

Brings in the question of whether retailers ever check their own stock, rotate it, and if they have any legal standing if they sell an item that is past its best?

I do appreciate that stocking hats must be a hard call between having multiples in stock 'just in case' or having a few and ordering them in when needed.

 

[Casey76]

My paneled/vented hat "came apart" when I came off my young horse at Easter (it was a relatively easy fall onto the sand school, but I still hit my head hard enough to have a concussion with memory loss) however it didn't come to pieces!

I would be seriously worried it my hat literally went to pieces - especially if they cost the earth, which KEP seem to!

 

[ester]

Fwiw I have received a reply to my more specific queries and have to say they are much better replying to emails than posting on a forum.

Of interest to all would be that the helmet when sold would have had CE EN 1834 homologation and the SEI / ASTM. However the helmet has no different to the ones currently sold with the extra standards that have been added since then.

The instructions for use state:

'"The duration of the helmet depends on several degenerative factors, including changes in temperature, amount of exposure to direct sunlight, intensity of use. People should check their helmets for damages regularly. Cracks, detachments, warpings, peeling and discoloration show the state of deterioration of the helmet; in any case it is advisable to replace the helmet after five years because its protection power decreasing with the aging of the materials it is made of. The date of manufacture is inside the helmet."
This is what our INSTRUCTIONS FOR USE AND MAINTENANCE contains. These instructions are included in the packaging of each helmet. If the helmet has been stored in the right way, its integrity could be compromised in the measure of 5 - 10%. '

I am assuming that the 5-10% would related to the after 5 years point, so I guess we aren't hitting breaking apart point.

 

[DirectorFury]

This thread has made its way onto Tumblr (a blogging site popular with teenagers and young adults, usually wealthy ones!) and has had lots of attention. One reply in particular caught my attention:

"I do and don’t believe this claim. I have a KEP, a cheaper model but still $700 AUD and last week I was riding and I heard a noise. The noise ended up being the front section of the helmet banging. It had come loose. I contacted the company I purchased it through and they said this was common, if I send it to KEP they will glue it back on. Apparently it has something to do with heat getting to it.
I haven’t used this helmet since November and it’s had no falls nor have I ever dropped it.
I’m quite disappointed that it will only ‘glued’ back on. It’s not even very old.
I have had a Charles Owen h2000 for 6-7 years, it has only just started to fade, Iv never fallen off in it and nothing is wrong except it stinks inside.
Loved my KEP but after this I will never get another one." [source]

 

[ApolloStorm]

Although I have never owned a KEP ( far too expensive) I do own a John whitaker hat of the vented/ panelled type. The day I bought the hat (£70) I came off my friends whizzy cob. I landed very heavily on my head, was concussed with a nose bleed. My hat however remained fully in 1 piece and would have definitely saved me from another impact.
Just goes to show that spending £££ on a piece of safety equipment doesn't always mean you're safer!

 

[mtj]

This thread has made its way onto Tumblr (a blogging site popular with teenagers and young adults, usually wealthy ones!) and has had lots of attention. One reply in particular caught my attention:

"I do and don’t believe this claim. I have a KEP, a cheaper model but still $700 AUD and last week I was riding and I heard a noise. The noise ended up being the front section of the helmet banging. It had come loose. I contacted the company I purchased it through and they said this was common, if I send it to KEP they will glue it back on. Apparently it has something to do with heat getting to it.
I haven’t used this helmet since November and it’s had no falls nor have I ever dropped it.
I’m quite disappointed that it will only ‘glued’ back on. It’s not even very old.
I have had a Charles Owen h2000 for 6-7 years, it has only just started to fade, Iv never fallen off in it and nothing is wrong except it stinks inside.
Loved my KEP but after this I will never get another one." [source]

The Charles Owen may look fine, but foam degrades so ALL hats need to be replaced after 4 years or so.

 

[mirage]

I saw this on FB last week and was pretty horrified. I'm glad you are OK OP. We have to replace both our daughter's hats this year,due to PC requiring hats tested to newer /different standards,and will be going for Champion or Charles Owen. Even if I could afford the silly money KEP hats seem to be,I wouldn't risk it. Their lack of customer service or sense of responsibility is stunning,never mind a hat shattering on impact. My daughter had a bad fall off a broncing pony not long ago and he caught her head with his hoof as he came down,the hat had a slight scuff,I dread to think what would have happened had her hat disintegrated on impact.

 

[skydy]

I have just received the following threat from kep

I can't seem to quote the threat of litigation that KEP sent to you.

I am stunned by KEP's behavior on this forum, toward the OP, yourself, and everyone else who is reading this thread , and by the disintegration of the safety hat.

I've posted a link to this thread on the COTH forum. I hope that some good will come of this.

 

[Twiglet]

This is hilarious (not OP's fall....) - haven't read all the replies, but I don't know what is more laughable, KEP's hat production, or their horrendous PR!

 

[DirectorFury]

Further to my post about this thread being on Tumblr, this is not an isolated incident. I've been contacted on there by a further 4 people who have had the same experience as the OP and were told by KEP 1) no big deal, 2) this has never happened before. Hmm.

 

[ester]

Are you able to pass details on to the OP?

 

[IREHORSEBAI]

I wish to personally reply to Mrs. Andrea Smith and to all the people who are interested in knowing something more about safety.

I’m really sorry to see Mrs. Smith’s reaction against our helmets after her fall. I would like to explain to her that a such a breaking of a helmet during a fall can only be caused by strong impacts received at the moment of the crash, or by the kicking or rolling of a horse on the helmet.
Looking at the pictures shown, I really consider that the helmet must have been smashed and destroyed by a strong pressure like the one produced by a horse, if we believe that she fell on the grass as she said.
A helmet cannot explode, it cannot be disintegrated that way by itself.
A helmet’s break is important in case of hard impact because it absorbs the shock and avoids that the head receives it.

KEP Italia helmets meet the standards of up to five international safety certifications. KEP Italia helmets were the first in the world to be labeled with the brand new VG01 homologation and we strongly supported the release of these new standards, which higher the level protection of all helmets certified only by the CE 1384-2011.
KEP Italia helmets did not need to undergo any kind of change to meet the new VG01 homologation and to successfully pass all the requested tests, because they already complied with the most severe international standards, such as the PAS015:2011 Kite Mark, ASTM F1163.04a, SEI, and IC certification.
In order to be approved by any one of the five homologations which KEP Italia helmets bear, all helmets must undergo severe testing. The tests are set in order to make sure a helmet is able to resists to all kind of strains.
KEP Italia helmets are light, comfortable and ventilated: each detail and material we use is the result of deep research for the most advanced produce of the market and attention to details. Yet everything undergoes deep testing and there is no element of our helmet that is casually put together. Glues and foams and polystyrene and varnishes and coatings and linings and the chinstrap are thoroughly tested inside our company and inside testing labs. Most of our tests are done in the UK and the companies that release the homologations not only request that we supply big quantities of helmets they use for the testing inside their labs, but also regularly inspect the standard production inside our facilities to make sure that all our production complies with their standards. Safety is a big investment to which we are committed loyally.
We are ready to stand behind our helmets and to talk about how important it is to wear helmets when riding, or even when being around a horse. Mrs. Andrea Smith was wearing a helmet when she fell, and we feel she should be happy that the helmet broke like that, because this is what helmets are manufactured for: to protect the rider.
We cannot say that by wearing a helmet a rider is 100% safe, but we can state that good quality helmets contribute deeply into saving lives when riders fall and have head concussions. We receive testimonies by riders and parents of young riders on a weekly basis: they thank KEP for the protection offered in falls and accidents, many of which are really bad. We are pleased to post some of these witnesses of different riders whose lives have been saved thank to Kep Italia helmets (see next posts).

Thank you for your attention,
LELIA POLINI
Kep Italia Managing Director
www.kepitalia.com

Excuse me, however I believe you are falsifying the readers of this forum in regards to the claim that you are a 5 standard helmet manufacturer. As far as I am aware IC Mark EN1384 has now been abolished. Along with this, the SEI test to the ASTM standard. Also one last point is that the VG1 kitemark is essentially the CE VG1.

So would this not mean you are tested to only 3 standards, as the fourth standard would be the SNELL standard which other superior helmet manufactures that actually do comply to the four helmet standards.

Maybe you should apologize to the forum readers for this "confusion" that you seem to have.

 

[ester]

As in the are counting certs (like the kitemark) as a safety level? I did wonder how we got to five without snell.

 

[ycbm]

Dupe of earlier post

 

[9tails]

I bet KEP wishes they'd done the right thing in the first instance now. How to ruin your business is one easy step. An astounding thread on a par with Schwmae.

 

[maccachic]

I still would like to know how helmets meet those standards are x number submitted and how often is this re evevaluated. Are random samples taken and is this done regularly? If its just the fact of submitting a few helmets for testing initially and that's, that well its hardly reassuring - who ensures manufacturing standards don't change.

 

[IREHORSEBAI]

I still would like to know how helmets meet those standards are x number submitted and how often is this re evevaluated. Are random samples taken and is this done regularly? If its just the fact of submitting a few helmets for testing initially and that's, that well its hardly reassuring - who ensures manufacturing standards don't change.

For certification X amount of helmets are required to release a batch of 1600 helmets, this is reevaluated yearly and per batch.

Only the snell standard does random sample testing, Snell buy 2% of the helmets of what the factory send onto the market.

The manufacturer buys serialised stickers, and the number from each of these stickers are sent into snell so they know how much the factory have. If there are any fails in that batch, that batch is then recalled.

KEP do not have the SNELL standard.