Water deprivation as a training tool

Grayson

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Last week I had cause to complain to Horse & Country TV and Ofcom that a program H&C showed indicated that to establish leadership and make your horse dependent on you as provider, it was fine to limit its access to water.

I pointed out that if the program were shown anywhere in EU, where the animal welfare legislation specifically states, as it does in UK, that horses should have permanent access to water or offered it every four to six hours, then the TV station could be seen as promoting a practice that breached animal welfare law.

Horse & Country replied promptly:
Dear Grayson,

Thank you very much for contacting Horse & Country TV and for expressing your concern about a section of [the program].

We take matters of animal welfare very seriously at H&C. We will review the episode straightaway for any future broadcasts.

Best regards,

H&C TV team​

Ofcom are still investigating.

Yesterday, I received an email from someone in US involved in investigating equine welfare crimes for twenty years. My informant was at the Colorado farm of the trainer in the H&C programme, and noticed
"… the horses were kept in outside pens with no shade. There was no water kept in the pens. The "pen" horses were led by the humans twice a day to drink. [The trainer's] ranch is at high elevation and the sun can be brutal. When I was there the horses were fed hay cubes. Hay cubes + high elevation + no water or shelter = poor management."​

The email tells me that two years later on, matters at the trainer's ranch had gone from bad to worse:
"… I received a call from a vet who had performed two necropsies on two horses that died that week. They died of renal failure due to water deprivation. There were 30 plus head of horses turned out in a large pasture with no water."​

My informant is clear about the reason for the renal failure: the trainer
"would whistle, open a gate and let the horses drink for 15 minutes and then they would run the horses out."​

There was a 300 gallon water container for the 30 horses*, the dominant horses would get their fill, horses number 29 and 30 died of thirst after two days! The Colorado State Vet was informed and 'investigations' began, but failed to result in prosecution on that occasion.
"Because of the way the laws are written and [the trainer's] power there was nothing to be done."​

The email ended:
"I get a little heated up when I hear these things are still continuing. [The trainer] is nothing short of an egotistical bully. His media market machine is so powerful they crush any criticism. They are tricky, too, as they have allied themselves with the Humane Society of the United States...what a perfect cover. However, I know what I know...and I know that whatever "talent" he may have had as a horseman is sullied and tainted by his cruel ego. It has nothing to do with the love of horses and their wellbeing.

It sickens me. People are stupidly naive following the Pied Piper without "seeing" the reality.
The horses are the innocent victims....they are prisoners of their jailers. At every turn we must be advocates for their wellbeing.

From someone who has witnessed things as above first hand."​

My informant wishes as many people as possible to be aware of what is happening but has so far received physical threats and been warned of reprisals from the training organisation. If there is a ground swell of support and any legal case made to deny the allegations, my informant will proudly stand up in court as a witness to the abuse observed.

Water deprivation is a cruel and abusive way to treat a horse. The ironic thing is that it can only serve to boost the ego of the trainer, it has no benefit to the horse and there any many more useful, natural, simpler and sympathetic ways to establish your role as leader. The sad thing is that there are students of such trainers who will find any number of excuses to support his teaching.

At the end of the day, we need to ask who benefits. Is what I just did of benefit to my horse, or does it benefit me? If the answer is you, you have to be very sure of the ethics behind the activity. If the action breaches the best animal welfare laws of any civilised country, you have to question how you understand the word 'ethics'.

* Note UK legislation is clear how much water horses need:
The amount of water required will vary depending on the individual horse but can range from 25-50 litres per day for an average size adult horse (around 5 litres per 100 kg bodyweight per day). The volume required will increase in hot weather​
From this we are looking at a minimum of 6 gallons for a small horse in our normal climate. When comparing with the US gallon, a 300 gallon tank when full would hold 250 Imperial gallons. If the tank were full, in the heat of Colorado, it might fill the needs of 25 thirsty Mustangs or just about all thirty if they have free access to it all day long.
 

amandap

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Depriving any animal of basic needs to live (air, water and food) is not training but abuse and illegal in this country. It still goes on though... :(
 

cefyl

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Depriving any animal of basic needs to live (air, water and food) is not training but abuse and illegal in this country. It still goes on though... :(

Sadly yes it does. I was told last week of a well known show producer who ties their ponies and horses up from at least the afternoon before a show so that they cannot lie down, drink, eat in order to make them "quiet" for the show :(. Not the first case like this I have heard of, been going on for years.
 

Equilibrium Ireland

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Yeah very hard to fight a cause when you don't know who is responsible. I know of one very high profile NH trainer with a ranch in Colorado.

Of course everyone knows, and how couldn't you, that horses need access to clean fresh water at all times.

FYI the Bedouins do the exact same and I hardly think that will change. Not Arabs, I'm on about TB racehorses.

Terri
 

Wagtail

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It does make me angry how much money these people are taking from their 'followers'. These followers would be appalled and shocked by this and other exposures of cruelty. Yet they seem to be able to smooth it over and are forgiven again and again.
 

Goldenstar

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Withholding water to quieten behaviour is as old as the hills In Middlemarch a novel see in a Georgian country town ( George Elliott ) a naive young man is conned into buying a vicious horse because the dealer has withheld water before the viewing.
To use dehydration as a NH training tool is completly unacceptable and has no place in the modern world these people make me sick.
 

amandap

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Withholding water to quieten behaviour is as old as the hills In Middlemarch a novel see in a Georgian country town ( George Elliott ) a naive young man is conned into buying a vicious horse because the dealer has withheld water before the viewing.
To use dehydration as a NH training tool is completly unacceptable and has no place in the modern world these people make me sick.
I agree but I also strongly think it's unacceptable for any reason except medical and has NO place in 'modern' horsemanship full stop.
 

SpottedCat

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I also think its a pretty grim thing to do...but know of more than one top level eventer (3*/4*) who think its perfectly acceptable to withhold water overnight and on the day of the dressage to make the horse more manageable. It goes on more than people think as it doesn't show up in a dope test!
 

Goldenstar

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I agree but I also strongly think it's unacceptable for any reason except medical and has NO place in 'modern' horsemanship full stop.

yup I should have been clearer I have heard of it a big dealers when I was young long long time ago.
The only time it might be acceptable that I an think of is to force feral horses into an area where you could enclose them if you could not catch them and where in real trouble in a last resort type of situation.
 

cornbrodolly

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Depriving water has NO place in any training system ; apart from the cruelty of constant thirst there must be long term damage to kidneys? As both a 'show' er and an N H er , I would never condone this . Please dont tar all N H with the same brush!
It was bad enough when we imported a horse from Germany , with a big transporter- said horse had no water or hay for 6 hours from Dover , and stepped out of the lorry 2 inches smaller and exhausted .Also,I failed to get my big cob measered in , couldnt do the no water trick.....
 

milesjess

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Disgrace! I spend 5-7 hours in the sun at work and need regular breaks to re-fresh and constantly take in water. How on earth can a living creature be expected to cope without.

Good on you OP for standing up and doing something about it.
 

Amaranta

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Shocking, I sincerely hope that more is made of this and that karma catches up with PP and his obnoxious wife :mad::mad::mad::mad:
 

amandap

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Yes, good on you Grayson. The evidence of kidney damage at necropsy is undeniable proof of the physical damage withholding water (especially in hot weather) can do.

I suspect these practices are far from new but because they get the desired results for the humans they are carried forward through the generations. :(
The big problem here (apart from the horses in his care suffering this today) is the huge impact this trainer has and how many have followed this example...
 

Grayson

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It is interesting that someone has just emailed me with a transcript from their Parelli Liberty Horse Behaviour DVD, which came out in 2006. Pat Parelli is telling students 'How Horses Learn' and how they appreciate food but making them beg for their water is an even better way to go.

He states:

"Water’s one of the most powerful taming substances on the face of the earth. You can take wild mustang or wild deer and if you control the water …, you put the water …, let’s say there was no water in this pasture, none, but in this pen, you opened up the gate and you were the one, the water master in charge of it, say when you get to come in or not, what the rules are, what you have to pay, it can take very quickly, horses they’re gonna be searching for water.

Lots of people try to train horses with grain and carrots and food; it don’t tame ‘em cos they don’t need it. Horses can live for weeks without food. It’ll damage them but it’ll …, they can live but they only survive without water for a matter of days.

And so sometimes water and to build a great relationship with your horse you notice we didn’t put any automatic waters in your pens, there are no automatic waters on either one of our facilities, it’s to help you learn the importance of bringing the water to the horse.

And if you bring him a full bucket of water when he’s already got a half a bucket there you wasted a trip. If you bring it to him when he’s putting his lips through the bars going ‘please please’ (PP makes sucking noises), who’s ever had a horse wanting to drink through the …, put his neck through the bars and drink?

Well, it’s not through the bars and drink that you want, it’s the thank-you, thank-you (PP in desperate tones) for bringing me some water. It can be a very very good bonding agent, it helps and it starts right from birth. Who has the liquid for the first month of their life?"​

Personally, this transcript turns my stomach. As I said earlier, it is the sign of someone whose ego overrides the benefit to the horse. There is absolutely no need to do this to establish leadership or to control a horse, as millions of riders — classical, traditional or so-called natural — have proved by establishing leadership whilst considering and preserving the dignity and welfare of the horse.
 

amandap

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Personally, this transcript turns my stomach. As I said earlier, it is the sign of someone whose ego overrides the benefit to the horse. There is absolutely no need to do this to establish leadership or to control a horse, as millions of riders — classical, traditional or so-called natural — have proved by establishing leadership whilst considering and preserving the dignity and welfare of the horse.
It is very, very depressing. :(
 

laura_lor

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Just reading that transcript makes me feel sick, I can't even think of the words to describe what he is suggesting. It's beyond cruel, and I for one would love to see him strung up and punished for his disgusting methods - and for trying to encourage other people to adopt the same approaches with their horses. Horrible man.
 

Capriole

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offs, this makes me so angry, that transcript is full of complete BS :mad: I'll stick to the 'great relationship' I have with my horse where he doesnt have to desperately beg me for anything, thanks PP.
 
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