Water deprivation as a training tool

[Ladyinred]

this will blow over pp will probably release a statement with some rubbish and all his followers will then ooh and ahh and say what a wonderful man he is, pretty much the same as monty and twh he releases a statement spouting his reasons and all his followers forgive him, the only people i have known to withhold water is dodgy dealers when selling a horse that is unsellable otherwise
why do these people follow blindly, question when they think something is wrong then accept anything that is said by the trainer if you are questioning the trainers ethics or morals then usually something is wrong

It's the cult mentality. it's a heck of a lot easier to get into a cult than it is to get out of one, especially when the leaders try to guilt trip those who disagree with them. Guilt is a powerful tool especially when it involves something as emotive as our love for the horse.

 

[Tinypony]

Yes, the Colorado Equine Abuse investigators have the vet's report on record and my informant has access to them.

Thanks Grayson. Is that the Colorado Horse Rescue, the Bureau of Animal Protection or the Colorado Humane Society? I can't find a specific equine abuse department, but several organisations that deal with animal abuse. Or it could have been reported to a sherriff.

 

[diamondrockharvey]

Well I'd love to let my fatties that receive no grain graze all day til their hearts content. However, they would most likely end up with lami. So during the day they are in a sacrafice paddock while grazing all night. No different than stabling. Oh wait they can move around. Even gallop around if they so wish. Please do not ever compare with holding water with actually doing something that keeps a horse from being ill. I don't do this for bonding. Silly.

I agree with this, my cob is on a 'piggy pen' in the day (with shelter and water) and then goes back in with the others in the field at night.

The only time I have ever heard of with holding water is when a horse is impossible to catch, as by turning up with their water and waiting for them to come to you and not being a threat, the horse begins to trust you and come to you for a drink twice a day, and they begin to see you as a friend and a safe place. This method is only to be used for extreme cases though where there is no other way of catching the horse safely.

 

[amandap]

Confining horses and witholding water (for short periods) on medical reasons is one thing, using witholding water/food for learning/training purposes is another. They are worlds apart imo.

 

[diamondrockharvey]

using electric collars.

Electric collars??? WTF???

 

[Hippona]

Afraid I also know of someone high up in the showing world that turns the automatic waterers off the night before a show. Then again same person was reccomended by another well known show producer to give their horse a large syringe of vodka to keep him calm...

Now I know where I've been going wrong....

 

[Brightbay]

Electric collars??? WTF???

It's not Parelli that uses these (afaik) but Clinton Anderson, similar in style to Parelli and popular in the US. He recommends them for curing "windsucking and other vices". Showing a clear misunderstanding of what causes and maintains stereotypies, as well as a clear lack of understanding of how animals learn It's called the Vice Breaker.

 

[Marydoll]

It's not Parelli that uses these (afaik) but Clinton Anderson, similar in style to Parelli and popular in the US. He recommends them for curing "windsucking and other vices". Showing a clear misunderstanding of what causes and maintains stereotypies, as well as a clear lack of understanding of how animals learn It's called the Vice Breaker.

Dear god, just when you think youve heard it all. Id love to stick him in the pen with pratt, both in electric collars with no water and run a bar outside for them to watch

 

[Morgan123]

Hi all

Grayson - thanks for this, v interesting and agree definitely good to bring to public attention if as you say it's all verifiable and true. Awful that people think it's ok to do such things.

I do agree with whoever said (Tinypony I think? tinypony usually speaks good sense !) that it's worth posting on other forums too - this is because if your informaiton is true and verifiable, then people who ARE parelli followers and could do with... err fuller information shall we say... are the ones who would particularly benefit from hearing about this sort of thing. Whenever there are parelli debates on here I would say that it ends up wiht about 70 or 80% of H&H members being anti-parelli anyway, so the information you've presented is useful and interesting, but doesn't impact how they go about training and so on becuase they don't use parelli anyway. If you post on other forums you may find that there is a much higher percentage of people who are potential parelli users or parellites (is that a word?! what is the word for them!?) and therefore you'll make more of a difference to people who might currently be, or might potentially, follow the parelli 'training' programmes.

I know the bickering is tiring though so eat lots of jelly sweets and things to keep your energy levels up ;-)

 

[Goldenstar]

Afraid I also know of someone high up in the showing world that turns the automatic waterers off the night before a show. Then again same person was reccomended by another well known show producer to give their horse a large syringe of vodka to keep him calm...

Are you sure the vodka was for the horse not the rider or perhaps both but that's bad if they are withholding water before a show poor horses.
Judging by the different affects vodka has on people not sure it would help the horse much ,me I be asleep in the corner of the ring my Oh would be climbing the sponsors tent.
Why do people do these things what's the point of winning if you do it like that.

 

[Grayson]

Thanks Grayson. Is that the Colorado Horse Rescue, the Bureau of Animal Protection or the Colorado Humane Society? I can't find a specific equine abuse department, but several organisations that deal with animal abuse. Or it could have been reported to a sherriff.

Bureau of Animal Protection

 

[Grayson]

Electric collars??? WTF???

http://www.pasturefence.com/vicebreaker.html

 

[Meowy Catkin]

http://www.pasturefence.com/vicebreaker.html

Awful - and yet the blurb claims that they are humane.

Electric shock collars are banned in Wales.

 

[Pedantic]

Totally disgusted ?